Jim Brown Calls Out Tiger Woods


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Jim Brown Calls Out Tiger Woods

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:46 pm

This cat is a mamajama; he is a killer. He'll run over you, he'll kick your ass. But as an individual for social change, or any of that kind of shit? Terrible. Terrible.

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/watch ... ibble.html

Who was it that said, "To whom much is given, much is expected"?
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Re: Jim Brown Calls Out Tiger Woods

Postby Marlow » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:07 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
This cat is a mamajama; he is a killer. He'll run over you, he'll kick your ass. But as an individual for social change, or any of that kind of shit? Terrible. Terrible.

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/watch ... ibble.html
Who was it that said, "To whom much is given, much is expected"?

Jim had far too many full-head helmet hits. Simply being the best in his sport is a very significant agent for change. Same for Obama, on a slightly larger (but not by much) scale.
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Re: Jim Brown Calls Out Tiger Woods

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:38 pm

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
This cat is a mamajama; he is a killer. He'll run over you, he'll kick your ass. But as an individual for social change, or any of that kind of shit? Terrible. Terrible.

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/watch ... ibble.html
Who was it that said, "To whom much is given, much is expected"?

Jim had far too many full-head helmet hits. Simply being the best in his sport is a very significant agent for change. Same for Obama, on a slightly larger (but not by much) scale.

I disagree with your take when it comes to Obama. I don't think anyone should ever run for president if they don't have deeply held moral principles for which they're willing to risk not only a second term, but impeachment as well. I think the last president we had like that was Lyndon Johnson. IMO, very, very, very much is expected out the person who has been granted the greatest powers in the history of mankind.
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Re: Jim Brown Calls Out Tiger Woods

Postby TrackDaddy » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:58 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
This cat is a mamajama; he is a killer. He'll run over you, he'll kick your ass. But as an individual for social change, or any of that kind of shit? Terrible. Terrible.

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/watch ... ibble.html

Who was it that said, "To whom much is given, much is expected"?


Jesus.

I wonder how he felt about radiometric carbon dating?

Jim Brown once said that Michael Jordan sells everything but stands for nothing.

Tiger didnt feel as though he was black because of his mixed race heritage.

Consequently it seems he once didnt feel he owed anything to those who came before him and desegregated the game.

Can you see him back in the 50s trying to explain to a bus driver in Selma that he wasnt black?

"But you dont understand....I'm cablasian"

:lol:
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Re: Jim Brown Calls Out Tiger Woods

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:04 pm

TrackDaddy wrote:Can you see him back in the 50s trying to explain to a bus driver in Selma that he wasnt black?

"But you dont understand....I'm cablasian"

:lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
This reminds me of the question that Malcolm X once posed to a highly-educated, intellectual Black man. TD, what's gotten into you? You didn't stir things up like this at TrackShark.
Last edited by jazzcyclist on Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jim Brown Calls Out Tiger Woods

Postby mcgato » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:07 pm

TrackDaddy wrote:Tiger didnt feel as though he was black because of his mixed race heritage.

Consequently it seems he once didnt feel he owed anything to those who came before him and desegregated the game.

I'd like to know when that was. I've been following Tiger since he was winning his first US amateur title at age 18. He has always been a student of the game of golf and its entire history. At his early appearances at the Masters he spoke of his gratitude to the minority pioneers of golf, like Charlie Sifford and Lee Elder.

Who was it that said, "To whom much is given, much is expected"?

I thought Gandalf said that.
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Postby rasb » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:16 pm

I love the Robin Williams take on "Tiger". Paraphrasing, it was something like, "African-American athletic ability, and Buddhist concentration - what crazy German geneticist came up with that"? I'll re-watch the video later, and come up with the exact phrase, but it was typically brilliant...
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Postby SQUACKEE » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:07 pm

Tiger is a nice guy who can hit a golf ball, thats it, isnt that enough. He has charities and obeys the law.
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Re: Jim Brown Calls Out Tiger Woods

Postby TrackDaddy » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:35 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
TrackDaddy wrote:Can you see him back in the 50s trying to explain to a bus driver in Selma that he wasnt black?

"But you dont understand....I'm cablasian"

:lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
This reminds me of the question that Malcolm X once posed to a highly-educated, intellectual Black man. TD, what's gotten into you? You didn't stir things up like this at TrackShark.


Oh from time to time I did. :lol:
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Re: Jim Brown Calls Out Tiger Woods

Postby TrackDaddy » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:40 pm

mcgato wrote:
TrackDaddy wrote:Tiger didnt feel as though he was black because of his mixed race heritage.

Consequently it seems he once didnt feel he owed anything to those who came before him and desegregated the game.

I'd like to know when that was. I've been following Tiger since he was winning his first US amateur title at age 18. He has always been a student of the game of golf and its entire history. At his early appearances at the Masters he spoke of his gratitude to the minority pioneers of golf, like Charlie Sifford and Lee Elder.

Who was it that said, "To whom much is given, much is expected"?

I thought Gandalf said that.


You mean when did he say he wasnt black?

On a episode of Oprah, I believe. The rest of my response said that it SEEMED like he was saying that he didnt owe anything to those he followed. At least thats the way many people took it.

Luke 12:48 (New International Version)

48But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

-Jesus
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Re: Jim Brown Calls Out Tiger Woods

Postby Marlow » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:41 pm

TrackDaddy wrote:From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked. -Jesus

and of course, paraphrasing, Spiderman. :wink:
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Postby BillVol » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:40 pm

TD, you are the most politically incorrect poster on here. But being black, you can get away with it. ;-)
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Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:56 pm

BillVol wrote:TD, you are the most politically incorrect poster on here. But being black, you can get away with it. ;-)

So TD is the Charles Barkley of T&FN? :wink:
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Postby BillVol » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:24 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
BillVol wrote:TD, you are the most politically incorrect poster on here. But being black, you can get away with it. ;-)

So TD is the Charles Barkley of T&FN? :wink:


TD is one of the best on here. Race is such a touchy subject. I wish we could do away with it. I remember an interview with Billy Graham in which he was asked what one thing would he change about the world if he could. He said, "Race." He wished that different races could be eliminated and that we all could be one race, since different races are so divisive. Amen to that.

But we are stuck with having different races and different cultures. One of the best classes I had at UT was Black Literature (prolly called African-American Literature now). The great Langston Hughes (A Dream Deferred) and W.E.B. DuBois, graduate of our own Fisk University. This was a great class with a great prof, a drop-dead gorgeous black lady who graduated from Harvard. I always loved it when I could take a class from a Harvard grad at little ole UT. Anyhow, these days, I think how much it would mean to a black high schooler to be able to read the great works of the great black writers. But they aren't going to read them if they are bussed to a white school.

This is too complex of a subject and is probably going to get me banned.
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Postby Daisy » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:36 pm

BillVol wrote:This is too complex of a subject and is probably going to get me banned.

Nothing you wrote deserves a ban.

You're right that it is complex. I'd say that the perception of race is one issue but if you take it away people will find another way to establish a pecking order. By the way, biologists have already taken it away. :)
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Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:53 pm

BillVol wrote:TD is one of the best on here. Race is such a touchy subject. I wish we could do away with it. I remember an interview with Billy Graham in which he was asked what one thing would he change about the world if he could. He said, "Race." He wished that different races could be eliminated and that we all could be one race, since different races are so divisive. Amen to that.

How convenient for Billy Graham not to mention religion. As I've pointed out on other threads, racism is a relatively new form of bigotry when compared to the hatred and evil that religion has caused. Think about it. Up until 500 years ago, everyone on the planet lived their whole lives without ever meeting someone of a different race. Even after the European powers started to conquer and colonize the world, the number of people who met other races was still very small for the first hundred years or so. In order for racism to thrive, there must be more than one race present. Today, the world is just one big neighborhood, but remember that it hasn't been like this for very long.
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Postby TrackDaddy » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:01 pm

BillVol wrote:TD, you are the most politically incorrect poster on here. But being black, you can get away with it. ;-)


Yeah, I know. :lol:

Admittedly being a minority has its advantages...but dont get paulthefan and lonewolf started. :wink: :lol:

I hope everyone realizes that I mean no offense.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:29 am

TrackDaddy wrote:
BillVol wrote:TD, you are the most politically incorrect poster on here. But being black, you can get away with it. ;-)


Yeah, I know. :lol:

Admittedly being a minority has its advantages...but dont get paulthefan and lonewolf started. :wink: :lol:

I hope everyone realizes that I mean no offense.

The trick is to make sure everyone gets the joke.
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Postby TrackDaddy » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:21 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
TrackDaddy wrote:
BillVol wrote:TD, you are the most politically incorrect poster on here. But being black, you can get away with it. ;-)


Yeah, I know. :lol:

Admittedly being a minority has its advantages...but dont get paulthefan and lonewolf started. :wink: :lol:

I hope everyone realizes that I mean no offense.

The trick is to make sure everyone gets the joke.


I said I mean no offense.

Not that I was joking.
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Re: Jim Brown Calls Out Tiger Woods

Postby LSUfan » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:41 am

TrackDaddy wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote::lol: :lol: :lol:
This reminds me of the question that Malcolm X once posed to a highly-educated, intellectual Black man. TD, what's gotten into you? You didn't stir things up like this at TrackShark.


Oh from time to time I did. :lol:


Un----der----state----ment :lol:


So....Jim doesn't think the Tigers Woods Foundation, Learning Center and Tiger Jam count for anything?
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Re: Jim Brown Calls Out Tiger Woods

Postby TrackDaddy » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:43 am

LSUfan wrote:
TrackDaddy wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote::lol: :lol: :lol:
This reminds me of the question that Malcolm X once posed to a highly-educated, intellectual Black man. TD, what's gotten into you? You didn't stir things up like this at TrackShark.


Oh from time to time I did. :lol:


Un----der----state----ment :lol:


So....Jim doesn't think the Tigers Woods Foundation, Learning Center and Tiger Jam count for anything?


:oops:

:lol:
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Postby Dietmar239 » Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:34 am

BillVol wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
BillVol wrote:TD, you are the most politically incorrect poster on here. But being black, you can get away with it. ;-)

So TD is the Charles Barkley of T&FN? :wink:


TD is one of the best on here. Race is such a touchy subject. I wish we could do away with it. I remember an interview with Billy Graham in which he was asked what one thing would he change about the world if he could. He said, "Race." He wished that different races could be eliminated and that we all could be one race, since different races are so divisive. Amen to that.

But we are stuck with having different races and different cultures. One of the best classes I had at UT was Black Literature (prolly called African-American Literature now). The great Langston Hughes (A Dream Deferred) and W.E.B. DuBois, graduate of our own Fisk University. This was a great class with a great prof, a drop-dead gorgeous black lady who graduated from Harvard. I always loved it when I could take a class from a Harvard grad at little ole UT. Anyhow, these days, I think how much it would mean to a black high schooler to be able to read the great works of the great black writers. But they aren't going to read them if they are bussed to a white school.

This is too complex of a subject and is probably going to get me banned.


I have a different take than Billy G. The various cultures and races add flavor to life. I love BBQ, but if I pick up an orange I don't want to taste a spare rib. If anything could and should be changed it's our attitudes about these differences.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:53 am

When you are a Black man, and you have no opinion on Jesse Helms's fitness to represent your state as a U.S. Senator, a la Michael Jordan, or you have no opinion on whether or not it's appropriate for the Confederate flag to fly over state capitols and other government buildings, a la Tiger Woods, you've got problems.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:10 am

jazzcyclist wrote:When you are a Black man, and you have no opinion on Jesse Helms's fitness to represent your state as a U.S. Senator, a la Michael Jordan, or you have no opinion on whether or not it's appropriate for the Confederate flag to fly over state capitols and other government buildings, a la Tiger Woods, you've got problems.


I can see that. I also see Tiger as a gifted super star from age 3? On the Mike Douglas show.Talented, likeable, loving parents, Stanford, super rich golf god. I predicted and said to friends, Tiger will marry a Swedish Model, and he did.
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Re: Jim Brown Calls Out Tiger Woods

Postby dal4018 » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:25 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
This cat is a mamajama; he is a killer. He'll run over you, he'll kick your ass. But as an individual for social change, or any of that kind of shit? Terrible. Terrible.

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/watch ... ibble.html

Who was it that said, "To whom much is given, much is expected"?
Brown was right to call him out he must have forgotten that comment from Fuzzy Zoeller about him eating fried chicken and his personal experiences as a child being tied to a tree by some neighborhood kids being pelted with racial insults along with dirt and gravel.
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Postby paulthefan » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:38 pm

Tiger is a great guy and a great golfer, Jim Brown is a great man, Let Jim Brown be Jim Brown, let Tiger Woods be Tiger...

dal4018 wrote:.. must have forgotten that comment from Fuzzy Zoeller about him eating fried chicken and his personal experiences as a child being tied to a tree by some neighborhood kids being pelted with racial insults along with dirt and gravel.
..it is also possible that Tiger is very much familiar with kids other than blacks, being treated like that by kids, other than whites.
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Postby Speedfirst » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:21 am

Every high profile black man or woman, will not and is not going to take the same stance as a Jim Brown or Ali. The social climate isn't the same as it was in the 50's and 60's when Jim was in his hey day. This is not to say that everthing today is peachy cream, because it's not.

But again because Tiger or Mike, aren't making front page headlines about issuse Jim Brown feels they should be making front page headlines about, doesn't mean they have not contributed to the cause or a cause.
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Postby TrackDaddy » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:55 am

paulthefan wrote:Tiger is a great guy and a great golfer, Jim Brown is a great man, Let Jim Brown be Jim Brown, let Tiger Woods be Tiger...

dal4018 wrote:.. must have forgotten that comment from Fuzzy Zoeller about him eating fried chicken and his personal experiences as a child being tied to a tree by some neighborhood kids being pelted with racial insults along with dirt and gravel.
..it is also possible that Tiger is very much familiar with kids other than blacks, being treated like that by kids, other than whites.



paul

I dont think dal said that only white kids did that to him. As you indicated, hate comes in all colors. I could certainly see black kids teasing him because of his asian heritage. I'm not saying they did, just that I wouldn't be surprised.

The message isnt black vs white, its right vs wrong.

Being a high profile athlete of color, Tiger either feels obligated to speak about certain things or he doesnt.

And Jim Brown has a right to his opinion, but obviously Mike and Tiger dont share it.

Fact is, if they did share his opinion, they wouldnt be nearly as rich and successful outside of the playing field as they are.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:18 am

Imagine Tiger driving up to the country club in his Big ass new Buick and he and Micheal Jordan jump out wearing Hanes underwear and the first thing they say is......"BLACK POWER BABY!" :lol:
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Postby TrakFan » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:19 am

SQUACKEE wrote:Imagine Tiger driving up to the country club in his Big ass new Buick and he and Micheal Jordan jump out wearing Hanes underwear and the first thing they say is......"BLACK POWER BABY!" :lol:


Its said, they/we don't utter it in mixed company :-)
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Postby scottmitchell74 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:26 am

Meh....Jim Brown has certainly been outspoken, that's true enough, but he hasn't exactly been a model citizen. I'd take my "tongue lashing" from someone else before him if I were Tiger.
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Postby TrackDaddy » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:57 am

scottmitchell74 wrote:Meh....Jim Brown has certainly been outspoken, that's true enough, but he hasn't exactly been a model citizen. I'd take my "tongue lashing" from someone else before him if I were Tiger.


I agree.

I wouldnt totally disregard Jim, but he's had a few bumps.
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Postby TrackDaddy » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:58 am

SQUACKEE wrote:Imagine Tiger driving up to the country club in his Big ass new Buick and he and Micheal Jordan jump out wearing Hanes underwear and the first thing they say is......"BLACK POWER BABY!" :lol:


I'm intentionally having trouble imagining that. :lol:
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Postby dal4018 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:10 pm

SQUACKEE wrote:Imagine Tiger driving up to the country club in his Big ass new Buick and he and Micheal Jordan jump out wearing Hanes underwear and the first thing they say is......"BLACK POWER BABY!" :lol:
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Postby paulthefan » Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:48 pm

TrackDaddy wrote:And Jim Brown has a right to his opinion, but obviously Mike and Tiger dont share it.

Fact is, if they did share his opinion, they wouldnt be nearly as rich and successful outside of the playing field as they are.


Jason Whitlock (agrees with paulthefan on Ali) had it right:
"Jim Brown is the most important athlete in American history. Everything we foolishly credit Muhammad Ali for standing for Jim Brown actually did and does. The reverence we shower on the self-serving, draft-dodging, Joe Frazier-is-a-monkey Muhammad Ali more appropriately belongs at Jim Brown's feet."


Jim Brown is a great man, his Amer-I-can program is a stroke of genius wrapped in moral clarity. He did more for man than more than a few civil rights con artists ever did. Nevertheless some of the misanthropy that comes from his mouth is surprising, he can almost sound like a spoiled brat with a jealous streak. I dont like his hat either.
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Postby dal4018 » Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:41 am

paulthefan wrote:
TrackDaddy wrote:And Jim Brown has a right to his opinion, but obviously Mike and Tiger dont share it.

Fact is, if they did share his opinion, they wouldnt be nearly as rich and successful outside of the playing field as they are.


Jason Whitlock (agrees with paulthefan on Ali) had it right:
"Jim Brown is the most important athlete in American history. Everything we foolishly credit Muhammad Ali for standing for Jim Brown actually did and does. The reverence we shower on the self-serving, draft-dodging, Joe Frazier-is-a-monkey Muhammad Ali more appropriately belongs at Jim Brown's feet."


Jim Brown is a great man, his Amer-I-can program is a stroke of genius wrapped in moral clarity. He did more for man than more than a few civil rights con artists ever did. Nevertheless some of the misanthropy that comes from his mouth is surprising, he can almost sound like a spoiled brat with a jealous streak. I dont like his hat either.
Yes and folks have forgotten it was Frazier who helped Ali get back on his feet to regain his boxing license.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:59 am

paulthefan wrote:
TrackDaddy wrote:And Jim Brown has a right to his opinion, but obviously Mike and Tiger dont share it.

Fact is, if they did share his opinion, they wouldnt be nearly as rich and successful outside of the playing field as they are.


Jason Whitlock (agrees with paulthefan on Ali) had it right:
"Jim Brown is the most important athlete in American history. Everything we foolishly credit Muhammad Ali for standing for Jim Brown actually did and does. The reverence we shower on the self-serving, draft-dodging, Joe Frazier-is-a-monkey Muhammad Ali more appropriately belongs at Jim Brown's feet."


Jim Brown is a great man, his Amer-I-can program is a stroke of genius wrapped in moral clarity. He did more for man than more than a few civil rights con artists ever did. Nevertheless some of the misanthropy that comes from his mouth is surprising, he can almost sound like a spoiled brat with a jealous streak. I dont like his hat either.

I like Whitlock, but I think he is totally off-base on this one, aside from the "Joe Frazier-is-a-monkey" comment. The way Ali demeaned Joe Frazier will always be a stain on his record, despite his belated apology.

I think the thing that Ali is most known for outside of the ring is his opposition to the Vietnam War and the price he was willing to pay for adhering to his religious beliefs. To my knowledge, Jim Browm was not an outspoken critic of the Vietnam War, nor did he pay any price professionally because of his religious beliefs. However, Ali can't touch Jim Brown when it comes to community activism, but I think Brown get's his due in that area, at least by the folks that I assossciate with.

And the "draft-dodging" phrase was needlessly perjorative at best and an ad hominem attack at worse, when you look at the entire history of Ali's draft evasion case in context.
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Postby paulthefan » Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:50 am

jazzcyclist wrote:[
I like Whitlock, but I think he is totally off-base on this one, aside from the "Joe Frazier-is-a-monkey" comment. The way Ali demeaned Joe Frazier will always be a stain on his record, despite his belated apology.

I think the thing that Ali is most known for outside of the ring is his opposition to the Vietnam War and the price he was willing to pay for adhering to his religious beliefs. To my knowledge, Jim Browm was not an outspoken critic of the Vietnam War, nor did he pay any price professionally because of his religious beliefs. However, Ali can't touch Jim Brown when it comes to community activism, but I think Brown get's his due in that area, at least by the folks that I associate with.

And the "draft-dodging" phrase was needlessly perjorative at best and an ad hominem attack at worse, when you look at the entire history of Ali's draft evasion case in context.


you and I could battle over this for ages, but I like the way Whitlock characterized Ali, if anyone deserves unfair characterizing it is Ali, a shameless self promoter and degrader of everything that is good about sport.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:05 am

paulthefan wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:[
I like Whitlock, but I think he is totally off-base on this one, aside from the "Joe Frazier-is-a-monkey" comment. The way Ali demeaned Joe Frazier will always be a stain on his record, despite his belated apology.

I think the thing that Ali is most known for outside of the ring is his opposition to the Vietnam War and the price he was willing to pay for adhering to his religious beliefs. To my knowledge, Jim Browm was not an outspoken critic of the Vietnam War, nor did he pay any price professionally because of his religious beliefs. However, Ali can't touch Jim Brown when it comes to community activism, but I think Brown get's his due in that area, at least by the folks that I associate with.

And the "draft-dodging" phrase was needlessly perjorative at best and an ad hominem attack at worse, when you look at the entire history of Ali's draft evasion case in context.


you and I could battle over this for ages, but I like the way Whitlock characterized Ali, if anyone deserves unfair characterizing it is Ali, a shameless self promoter and degrader of everything that is good about sport.

I'm somewhat in agreement with you here, but it's Whitlock's other comments that I take exception with. In particular, Jim Brown never was an outspoken critic of the Vietnam War or American Imperialism. Also, describing Ali as a draft-dodger makes about as much sense as describing Martin Luther King as a rabble-rouser.
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Postby Speedfirst » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:37 am

All due respect, with respect to Ali not be able to touch Brown regarding community activism. well maybe he didn't have to. They weren't and aren't in competition in that area. There is this thing, where folks bring something different and/or unique to the table.

P.S. Whitlock isn't unlike most, if not all journalist, on a soap box.
Speedfirst
 
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