Normally open July 4th only---the one day a year when partisan politics, religion, etc. are acceptable topics on this Board. (The 2012 window is now closed; thanks for playing.)
dal4018 wrote:Odell if a certain ex President who uttered the words"Mr.Gorbachev tear down this wall" were alive and read your article he would be screaming his head off!!!!!! here's the speech in its entirety http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWcUPBeWQEU
No doubt, I have seen it.
I spent a month in one of the former Soviet Union states last year. I have seen with my own eyes what socialism can do. It is not pretty.
The theories behind it sound good, etc., as someone early on in this thread tried to state in so many words using Biblical quotes. Problem is, it fails miserably in practice, and the populations as a whole are left poorer off than they would have been otherwise. It took the Soviet people 70 years to realize that.
I am not a citizen of the USA, so technically, I have no vote here.
But as a citizen of the World, I am so glad that Obama is the president.
He is a brilliant man, not just in intellect, but in spirit. And if his reaching out to the rest of the World does not work out, then nothing will.
As for this socialist/capitalist rhetoric, it means nothing to me. Most of the other Western democracies have moved to a position which is cognizant of the need to blend private and public interests, and most of these Nations rank far above the USA in terms of the various International rankings as to how governments are meeting the needs of their citizens in areas such as education, health care, environment, etc. Listening to Palin and Gingrich and Limbaugh lately just clarifies the debate for me... However, I still love you, Wolfie...
dal4018 wrote:Odell if a certain ex President who uttered the words"Mr.Gorbachev tear down this wall" were alive and read your article he would be screaming his head off!!!!!! here's the speech in its entirety http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWcUPBeWQEU
No doubt, I have seen it.
I spent a month in one of the former Soviet Union states last year. I have seen with my own eyes what socialism can do. It is not pretty.
The theories behind it sound good, etc., as someone early on in this thread tried to state in so many words using Biblical quotes. Problem is, it fails miserably in practice, and the populations as a whole are left poorer off than they would have been otherwise. It took the Soviet people 70 years to realize that.
Well, I lived under communist rule in Czechoslovakia for 20 years and I can tell you one thing. There is no comparison in what's going on in USA right now with the Soviet style rule.
dal4018 wrote:Odell if a certain ex President who uttered the words"Mr.Gorbachev tear down this wall" were alive and read your article he would be screaming his head off!!!!!! here's the speech in its entirety http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWcUPBeWQEU
No doubt, I have seen it.
I spent a month in one of the former Soviet Union states last year. I have seen with my own eyes what socialism can do. It is not pretty.
The theories behind it sound good, etc., as someone early on in this thread tried to state in so many words using Biblical quotes. Problem is, it fails miserably in practice, and the populations as a whole are left poorer off than they would have been otherwise. It took the Soviet people 70 years to realize that.
Well, I lived under communist rule in Czechoslovakia for 20 years and I can tell you one thing. There is no comparison in what's going on in USA right now with the Soviet style rule.
We should all be very humble, as i am, that we have a gentleman here who has lived it.
rasb wrote:I am not a citizen of the USA, so technically, I have no vote here. But as a citizen of the World, I am so glad that Obama is the president. He is a brilliant man, not just in intellect, but in spirit. And if his reaching out to the rest of the World does not work out, then nothing will. As for this socialist/capitalist rhetoric, it means nothing to me. Most of the other Western democracies have moved to a position which is cognizant of the need to blend private and public interests, and most of these Nations rank far above the USA in terms of the various International rankings as to how governments are meeting the needs of their citizens in areas such as education, health care, environment, etc. Listening to Palin and Gingrich and Limbaugh lately just clarifies the debate for me... However, I still love you, Wolfie...
Education: I think we spend quite a bit on this already. We need to listen to our teachers!
Health Care: Its bankrupt.
Environment: General Electric
Can you imagine if ExxonMobil owned Fox News??? What kind of corruption theories would have been flying around during the Bush Admin.?
rasb wrote:I am not a citizen of the USA, so technically, I have no vote here. But as a citizen of the World, I am so glad that Obama is the president. He is a brilliant man, not just in intellect, but in spirit. And if his reaching out to the rest of the World does not work out, then nothing will. As for this socialist/capitalist rhetoric, it means nothing to me. Most of the other Western democracies have moved to a position which is cognizant of the need to blend private and public interests, and most of these Nations rank far above the USA in terms of the various International rankings as to how governments are meeting the needs of their citizens in areas such as education, health care, environment, etc. Listening to Palin and Gingrich and Limbaugh lately just clarifies the debate for me... However, I still love you, Wolfie...
dal4018 wrote:Odell if a certain ex President who uttered the words"Mr.Gorbachev tear down this wall" were alive and read your article he would be screaming his head off!!!!!! here's the speech in its entirety http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWcUPBeWQEU
No doubt, I have seen it.
I spent a month in one of the former Soviet Union states last year. I have seen with my own eyes what socialism can do. It is not pretty.
The theories behind it sound good, etc., as someone early on in this thread tried to state in so many words using Biblical quotes. Problem is, it fails miserably in practice, and the populations as a whole are left poorer off than they would have been otherwise. It took the Soviet people 70 years to realize that.
There's a big difference between communism, such as what existed in the now defunct U.S.S.R., and socialism, what exists in Sweden today.
jazzcyclist wrote:There's a big difference between communism, such as what existed in the now defunct U.S.S.R., and socialism, what exists in Sweden today.
And an equal difference between Sweden and the USA!
As I've said before, I count communists, socialists and other radicals among my friends. In no way, shape or form do they consider Obama a socialist - once they've stopped laughing at the idea.
rasb wrote:I am not a citizen of the USA, so technically, I have no vote here. But as a citizen of the World, I am so glad that Obama is the president. He is a brilliant man, not just in intellect, but in spirit. And if his reaching out to the rest of the World does not work out, then nothing will. As for this socialist/capitalist rhetoric, it means nothing to me. Most of the other Western democracies have moved to a position which is cognizant of the need to blend private and public interests, and most of these Nations rank far above the USA in terms of the various International rankings as to how governments are meeting the needs of their citizens in areas such as education, health care, environment, etc. Listening to Palin and Gingrich and Limbaugh lately just clarifies the debate for me... However, I still love you, Wolfie...
Education: I think we spend quite a bit on this already. We need to listen to our teachers!
Health Care: Its bankrupt.
Environment: General Electric
Can you imagine if ExxonMobil owned Fox News??? What kind of corruption theories would have been flying around during the Bush Admin.?
GE + NBC + White House = a whole lotta money!
Health Care being bankrupt you can thank one organization for that A.M.A.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Every time you have stepped into this thread you have been forced to backtrack because of a gaping lack of actual knowledge. I would suggest you retire from this one.
rasb wrote:I am not a citizen of the USA, so technically, I have no vote here. But as a citizen of the World, I am so glad that Obama is the president. He is a brilliant man, not just in intellect, but in spirit. And if his reaching out to the rest of the World does not work out, then nothing will. As for this socialist/capitalist rhetoric, it means nothing to me. Most of the other Western democracies have moved to a position which is cognizant of the need to blend private and public interests, and most of these Nations rank far above the USA in terms of the various International rankings as to how governments are meeting the needs of their citizens in areas such as education, health care, environment, etc. Listening to Palin and Gingrich and Limbaugh lately just clarifies the debate for me... However, I still love you, Wolfie...:)
Good point rasb, we will relearn, what we forget every 100 years, that nothing will. As for the other western democracies, what values they brought hundreds of years ago, to the world will soon be swept away. Their great "internationalist rankings" is due to their opening their bellies to a preying virus of foreign cultures that do not share those values. Demographics will continue to prove those democracies a very generous host, but not a surviving one.
Last edited by paulthefan on Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
rasb wrote:I am not a citizen of the USA, so technically, I have no vote here. But as a citizen of the World, I am so glad that Obama is the president. He is a brilliant man, not just in intellect, but in spirit. And if his reaching out to the rest of the World does not work out, then nothing will. As for this socialist/capitalist rhetoric, it means nothing to me. Most of the other Western democracies have moved to a position which is cognizant of the need to blend private and public interests, and most of these Nations rank far above the USA in terms of the various International rankings as to how governments are meeting the needs of their citizens in areas such as education, health care, environment, etc. Listening to Palin and Gingrich and Limbaugh lately just clarifies the debate for me... However, I still love you, Wolfie...
Good point rasb, we will relearn, what we forget every 100 years, that nothing will.
As for the other western democracies, what values they brought hundreds of years ago, to the world will soon be swept away. Their great "internationalist rankings" is due to their opening their bellies to a preying virus of foreign cultures that do not share those values. Demographics will continue to prove those democracies a very generous host, but not a surviving one.
rasb wrote:Hey ptf, So faint hope, if any, for the future of humanity? Other than an ongoing arms race? If you are correct, that is very sad...
no, not at all, dont worry, humanity will continue to dominate the globe. It is fantastic neo-liberal dreams of how man will organize his affairs and what he will value that is going away.
rasb wrote:Hey ptf, So faint hope, if any, for the future of humanity? Other than an ongoing arms race? If you are correct, that is very sad...
no, not at all, dont worry, humanity will continue to dominate the globe. It is fantastic neo-liberal dreams of how man will organize his affairs and what he will value that is going away.
If i read your posts wrongly, I apologize.
If I don't, then I think you are trying to say that (mostly) white, (mostly) wealthy, (mostly) right-wingers are pre-destined to inherit the Earth, or whatever is left of it. Wow, what a vision for the future.... Republicans and cockroaches.....hmmmmmm...... tough choice
rasb wrote:[.. Republicans and cockroaches.....hmmmmmm...... tough choice
C'm mods.. there is at least one Republican on this board and, for the moment, a subscriber to your magazine.
No amount of smileys can keep this from being an insult.
rasb wrote:Hey ptf, So faint hope, if any, for the future of humanity? Other than an ongoing arms race? If you are correct, that is very sad...
no, not at all, dont worry, humanity will continue to dominate the globe. It is fantastic neo-liberal dreams of how man will organize his affairs and what he will value that is going away.
If i read your posts wrongly, I apologize. If I don't, then I think you are trying to say that (mostly) white, (mostly) wealthy, (mostly) right-wingers are pre-destined to inherit the Earth, or whatever is left of it. Wow, what a vision for the future.... Republicans and cockroaches.....hmmmmmm...... tough choice
rasb, I think paul is making reference to something like this:
"We're the ones who will change you," the Norwegian imam Mullah Krekar told the Oslo newspaper Dagbladet in 2006. "Just look at the development within Europe, where the number of Muslims is expanding like mosquitoes. Every Western woman in the EU is producing an average of 1.4 children. Every Muslim woman in the same countries is producing 3.5 children." As he summed it up: "Our way of thinking will prove more powerful than yours."
Yes, thank you, I understand precisely what ptf was referring to.... It's not exactly rocket science, and anyone with an IQ with 3 digits can pick up the incredibly racist and religiously-intolerant undertones of the message...
Thankfully, the current president of the USA understands this well, and realizes that the evolving world order demands the ability of all to learn how to get along with various races, colours, creeds, faiths, etc.
What would the alternative suggestion be......either to out-procreate or to bomb them off the face of the Earth? Or some other suggestion, other than to try and work it out ? Please provide some enlightenment....Thanks !
rasb wrote:If i read your posts wrongly, I apologize. If I don't, then I think you are trying to say that (mostly) white, (mostly) wealthy, (mostly) right-wingers are pre-destined to inherit the Earth, or whatever is left of it. Wow, what a vision for the future.... Republicans and cockroaches.....hmmmmmm...... tough choice :)
deca wrote:rasb, I think paul is making reference to something like this:
"We're the ones who will change you," the Norwegian imam Mullah Krekar told the Oslo newspaper Dagbladet in 2006. "Just look at the development within Europe, where the number of Muslims is expanding like mosquitoes. Every Western woman in the EU is producing an average of 1.4 children. Every Muslim woman in the same countries is producing 3.5 children." As he summed it up: "Our way of thinking will prove more powerful than yours."
deca wrote:right-wingers destined to inherit the earth???
deca, some realities are so clear and self evident they dont need a list of examples to understand. Some people purposefully shelter themselves from realty as it conflicts with their religion. rasb chooses to see things as they hope and dream them to be, not as they are. We choose not to outprocreate our enemies, Our enemies however recognize that they can outprocreate us, and give us the tab for their progeny's feeding and mullahed education and health care. The west continues to think that it can pursuade these cultures to accept us. We are deluded. Imams in western cities understand this.
western rightwingers and leftwingers are headed for the dustbin of history nevertheless Obama's Cairo speech though in content mildly wrongheaded will likely do us more good than harm.
Last edited by paulthefan on Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Well, not everyone is interested in living in a basement (bunker?) stocked with canned goods, nurturing an irrational fear, while held hostage by the illusion they are somehow genetically superior to someone else.
Have fun though.
Idealistic as it may sound some people believe that humanity trumps the "ours, we, theys, and us" in your posts.
Counterintuitively to what seems to be either taught or inherent/bred into some, structured love is an option. If the offering is rejected, THEN you fight.
Can there be peace on Earth?
As "liberal" as it may sound...
Eh...maybe...from time to time..
But certainly not as long as greed is allowed to go unchecked under the guise that it is somehow more noble if we call it capitalism.
TrackDaddy wrote:Well, not everyone is interested in living in a basement (bunker?) stocked with canned goods, nurturing an irrational fear, while held hostage by the illusion they are somehow genetically superior to someone else.
Have fun though.
Idealistic as it may sound some people believe that humanity trumps the "ours, we, theys, and us" in your posts.
Counterintuitively to what seems to be either taught or inherent/bred into some, structured love is an option. If the offering is rejected, THEN you fight.
Can there be peace on Earth?
As "liberal" as it may sound...
Eh...maybe...from time to time..
But certainly not as long as greed is allowed to go unchecked under the guise that it is somehow more noble if we call it capitalism.
I have a sandwhich.
You want half?
Paulthefan will dismiss your post as a "wishful liberal ranting", but I, as well as many others here agree and applaud you.
TrackDaddy wrote:Well, not everyone is interested in living in a basement (bunker?) stocked with canned goods, nurturing an irrational fear, while held hostage by the illusion they are somehow genetically superior to someone else.
Have fun though.
Idealistic as it may sound some people believe that humanity trumps the "ours, we, theys, and us" in your posts.
Counterintuitively to what seems to be either taught or inherent/bred into some, structured love is an option. If the offering is rejected, THEN you fight.
Can there be peace on Earth?
As "liberal" as it may sound...
Eh...maybe...from time to time..
But certainly not as long as greed is allowed to go unchecked under the guise that it is somehow more noble if we call it capitalism.
I have a sandwhich.
You want half?
Wouldn't need/want half of what ever you're eating. So Capitalism is now the liberals evil de jour.
I say working until April(for now) just to pay for the politicos grand utopian delusions and unchecked spending and borrowing by the current administration will suck the sandwich out of generations of tax payers to come.
Peace to all.
Vince wrote:unchecked spending and borrowing by the current administration
Is your memory failing you, or is my recollection of over $2 trillion deficit accumulated by the previous administration erroneous?
While allowing the economy to tank to near Great-Depression levels thanks to years of Republican-led deregulation, tax cuts and increased government spending. But do not attempt to confuse these folks with facts . . .
Vince wrote:unchecked spending and borrowing by the current administration
Is your memory failing you, or is my recollection of over $2 trillion deficit accumulated by the previous administration erroneous?
While allowing the economy to tank to near Great-Depression levels thanks to years of Republican-led deregulation, tax cuts and increased government spending. But do not attempt to confuse these folks with facts . . .
Exactly. In general, I'd suggest that a little more attention to the FACTS and a lot less ideological ranting is in order.
Vince wrote:unchecked spending and borrowing by the current administration
Is your memory failing you, or is my recollection of over $2 trillion deficit accumulated by the previous administration erroneous?
While allowing the economy to tank to near Great-Depression levels thanks to years of Republican-led deregulation, tax cuts and increased government spending. But do not attempt to confuse these folks with facts . . .
And how does the democratic led congress fit into all (open your eyes) of this and how does increasing the national debt 4 times over the previous solve this?
If you think that overspending led us to this economy, then I am sure the right answer to fix it is to quadruple (or more) the problem.
Vince wrote:unchecked spending and borrowing by the current administration
Is your memory failing you, or is my recollection of over $2 trillion deficit accumulated by the previous administration erroneous?
Vince wrote:Peace to all.
Agreed .
Actually the current administration inherited a 1 trillion deficit and then the current administration doubled it to 2 trillion with his latest budget according to the CBO, which only partially takes into account the list of spending promises made during the campaign.
TrackDaddy wrote:Well, not everyone is interested in living in a basement (bunker?) stocked with canned goods, nurturing an irrational fear, while held hostage by the illusion they are somehow genetically superior to someone else.
Have fun though.
Idealistic as it may sound some people believe that humanity trumps the "ours, we, theys, and us" in your posts.
Counterintuitively to what seems to be either taught or inherent/bred into some, structured love is an option. If the offering is rejected, THEN you fight.
Can there be peace on Earth?
As "liberal" as it may sound...
Eh...maybe...from time to time..
But certainly not as long as greed is allowed to go unchecked under the guise that it is somehow more noble if we call it capitalism.
I have a sandwhich.
You want half?
Paulthefan will dismiss your post as a "wishful liberal ranting", but I, as well as many others here agree and applaud you.
Ill gladly share my sandwich with you, but please dont bring 5 others with contempt for me and my mores, to the table that you have promised my half of the sandwich to.
Last edited by paulthefan on Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Vince wrote:unchecked spending and borrowing by the current administration
Is your memory failing you, or is my recollection of over $2 trillion deficit accumulated by the previous administration erroneous?
While allowing the economy to tank to near Great-Depression levels thanks to years of Republican-led deregulation, tax cuts and increased government spending. But do not attempt to confuse these folks with facts . . .
proof that too many economics courses taught by communists can rot your brain. To your credit you did manage to get the "increased government spending" part right.
Vince wrote:unchecked spending and borrowing by the current administration
Is your memory failing you, or is my recollection of over $2 trillion deficit accumulated by the previous administration erroneous?
Vince wrote:Peace to all.
Agreed .
Actually the current administration inherited a 1 trillion deficit and then the current administration doubled it to 2 trillion with his latest budget according to the CBO, which only partially takes into account the list of spending promises made during the campaign.
Peace to the haters.
I looked it up. Here are the numbers.
Deficit at the end of 2000 - 5,674B
2008 - 10,699.8B
Third quarter of 2009 - 11,383B
I'll tell you something else. During the 1980 campaign, Reagan attacked Carter mercilessly about the deficits (under 1B at that time). I remember that debate vividly, Reagan used the analogy of "stacking one-dollar bills all the way to the moon". He promptly multiplied the inherited deficit. Please, don't tell me that he had a Democratic Congress. Yes, he did, but of a tiny majority and with his charm he persuaded some more conservative Democrats to vote for his budgets.
What I am saying is that all the rhetoric of the Republicans of being fiscally conservative is not supported by their record.
Pego wrote:I'll tell you something else. During the 1980 campaign, Reagan attacked Carter mercilessly about the deficits (under 1B at that time). I remember that debate vividly, Reagan used the analogy of "stacking one-dollar bills all the way to the moon". He promptly multiplied the inherited deficit. Please, don't tell me that he had a Democratic Congress. Yes, he did, but of a tiny majority and with his charm he persuaded some more conservative Democrats to vote for his budgets.
What I am saying is that all the rhetoric of the Republicans of being fiscally conservative is not supported by their record.
agree in part, Reagan had to choose his battles carefully. After roughly 45+ years of liberal domestic policy some things were off limits.
The real problem conservatives have with liberals on this issue is that the liberal answer to republican hypocrisy on spending is: "get the democrats in there to spend 3x as much". Can this republic survive these two parties ?
Pego wrote:I'll tell you something else. During the 1980 campaign, Reagan attacked Carter mercilessly about the deficits (under 1B at that time). I remember that debate vividly, Reagan used the analogy of "stacking one-dollar bills all the way to the moon". He promptly multiplied the inherited deficit. Please, don't tell me that he had a Democratic Congress. Yes, he did, but of a tiny majority and with his charm he persuaded some more conservative Democrats to vote for his budgets.
What I am saying is that all the rhetoric of the Republicans of being fiscally conservative is not supported by their record.
agree in part, Reagan had to choose his battles carefully. After roughly 45+ years of liberal domestic policy some things were off limits.
The real problem conservatives have with liberals on this issue is that the liberal answer to republican hypocrisy on spending is: "get the democrats in there to spend 3x as much". Can this republic survive these two parties ?
Not with Michael Steele supposedly in charge of the GOP.
.