world records that are questionable............


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world records that are questionable............

Postby williamwindhamjr » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:08 pm

The womens 100 meters,the womens 200 meters, the womens 400,and 800.Those are the main ones that bother me because for track athletes who work hard,like Allyson Felix,they deserve a shot,at real records.
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Re: world records that are questionable............

Postby CookyMonzta » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:33 pm

williamwindhamjr wrote:The womens 100 meters,the womens 200 meters, the womens 400,and 800.Those are the main ones that bother me because for track athletes who work hard,like Allyson Felix,they deserve a shot,at real records.

Don't stop at 800! How about the 1,500 and 3,000?
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Postby williamwindhamjr » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:39 pm

yes the 800 and 1500 as well.
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Postby Vault-emort » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:16 am

Is Felix moving up?? :lol:
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Postby Matt » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:19 am

....throw in all of the W throwing events as well.
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Postby Powell » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:00 am

Matt wrote:....throw in all of the W throwing events as well.


What are you suggesting about Barbora Spotakova?
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Postby Rineanna » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:24 am

Powell wrote:
Matt wrote:....throw in all of the W throwing events as well.


What are you suggesting about Barbora Spotakova?


Exactly.

I'm hoping Miankova, Heidler, Hrasnova or Moreno can wipe out that Russian witch's 'record' within the next couple of years.
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Postby Matt » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:48 am

You know what - I had not been specifically thinking about her, but what makes you think that she in particular is any more guaranteed as a clean athlete than any other? Don't be naive. Just because you ahppen to like an athlete or if an athlete has a nice personality, it does not make them automatically clean.

She will certainly be the first female WR thrower of the modern day era that is clean. I hope she is.
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Postby Marlow » Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:58 am

Rineanna wrote:
Powell wrote:
Matt wrote:....throw in all of the W throwing events as well.

What are you suggesting about Barbora Spotakova?

Exactly.
I'm hoping Miankova, Heidler, Hrasnova or Moreno can wipe out that Russian witch's 'record' within the next couple of years.


a. Short of hitting her with their hammers, how are those women going to break the javelin record?
b. I can't believe this thread has much of a life. You are violating board policy by accusing all these record-holders of being dirty.
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Postby AthleticsInBritain » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:14 am

Marlow wrote:
Rineanna wrote:
Powell wrote:
Matt wrote:....throw in all of the W throwing events as well.

What are you suggesting about Barbora Spotakova?

Exactly.
I'm hoping Miankova, Heidler, Hrasnova or Moreno can wipe out that Russian witch's 'record' within the next couple of years.


a. Short of hitting her with their hammers, how are those women going to break the javelin record?
b. I can't believe this thread has much of a life. You are violating board policy by accusing all these record-holders of being dirty.


You forgot to say that Spotakova's from the Czech Republic ... ;)
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Postby Jon » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:24 am

I think Rineanna was agreeing with Powell's point that Spotakova is clean, but then made a separate point about wanting the HT record to be broken. I don't think she was calling Spotakova a 'Russian witch'.
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Postby Marlow » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:34 am

Jon wrote:I think Rineanna was agreeing with Powell's point that Spotakova is clean, but then made a separate point about wanting the HT record to be broken. I don't think she was calling Spotakova a 'Russian witch'.

Oh . . . that makes more sense.
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Postby Vault-emort » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:29 am

Jon wrote:I think Rineanna was agreeing with Powell's point that Spotakova is clean, but then made a separate point about wanting the HT record to be broken. I don't think she was calling Spotakova a 'Russian witch'.

If Rineanna can magically tell who IS or ISN'T clean without any scientific proof, doesn't that make him/her more likely to be the witch?????

Just sayin...
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Postby Jon » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:37 am

Vault-emort wrote:
Jon wrote:I think Rineanna was agreeing with Powell's point that Spotakova is clean, but then made a separate point about wanting the HT record to be broken. I don't think she was calling Spotakova a 'Russian witch'.
If Rineanna can magically tell who IS or ISN'T clean without any scientific proof, doesn't that make him/her more likely to be the witch?????

Just sayin...
As I said above, I think Rineanna was referring to the world record holder in the hammer - Tatyana Lysenko - who has failed a drugs test and is currently serving a ban. Is that sufficient scientific proof?
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Postby Aubergine » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:41 am

Rineanna wrote:
Powell wrote:
Matt wrote:....throw in all of the W throwing events as well.


What are you suggesting about Barbora Spotakova?


Exactly.

I'm hoping Miankova, Heidler, Hrasnova or Moreno can wipe out that Russian witch's 'record' within the next couple of years.


You really think a Belorussian is clean? After Tiskan and the other one go down in Beijing? Hrasnova has previously served a 2 year ban. Think she's learned the error of her ways? They usually do, right? :roll:
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Postby Rineanna » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:53 am

Thanks Jon for clearing up my rather ambiguous post; I apologise for being unclear. I was indeed agreeing with Powell's post initially with 'exactly', and then went on to a separate post regarding the Hammer throw. My fault.


If Rineanna can magically tell who IS or ISN'T clean without any scientific proof, doesn't that make him/her more likely to be the witch?????

Just sayin...


Please point out who exactly I accused of taking drugs aside from Lysenko who's serving a drugs ban.

And as for telling who IS clean, I don't know about you, but I can pretty much only assume everyone who hasn't been busted is clean; I have no proof of anything otherwise, and contrary to popular belief, I'm not going to start shouting off about people who I think are dirty.

You really think a Belorussian is clean? After Tiskan and the other one go down in Beijing? Hrasnova has previously served a 2 year ban. Think she's learned the error of her ways? They usually do, right?


Until the IAAF/WADA tell me otherwise, she's clean.

Secondly, I never knew Hrasnova served a ban previously. That puts a whole new light on her. Go Heidler and Moreno so!

Plus, just to clear things up, Rineanna's a he! :D
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Postby jhc68 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:09 am

As long as we are recklessly indulging our darkest suspicions with no empirical knowledge, why stop here? Much as I hate to say it, and as un-PC as it may be, I'd throw in all the jumps WRs as well.
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Postby Marlow » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:14 am

jhc68 wrote:I'd throw in all the jumps WRs as well.

You've just openly accused Isinbayeva of taking PEDs. This thread is over.
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Postby bad hammy » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:30 am

jhc68 wrote:Much as I hate to say it, and as un-PC as it may be, I'd throw in all the jumps WRs as well.

Why stop there? You heard it here first - all WRs! :twisted:
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Postby Marlow » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:37 am

bad hammy wrote:
jhc68 wrote:Much as I hate to say it, and as un-PC as it may be, I'd throw in all the jumps WRs as well.

Why stop there? You heard it here first - all WRs! :twisted:

Which is the pointlessness of such accusations and Paula R is the prime example of why. Her WR is looking more and more outlierish, and Jon will defend her to the death.
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Postby Matt » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:52 am

SP - distances are generally more than two metres down on the WR these days, and even then only one woman regularly comes close to that

DT - Beijing and Osaka winning distances speak for themselves. I'm not sure that I recall when 70m last being broken, never mind about approaching nearly 77m.

HT - Lysenko and her pals regularly provide positive tests

JT - Petra Felke was almost certainly part of the state sponsored regime. Whitbread apart, no else came within 5m of her WR.

If she is clean, Spotakova would be a welcome relief in the modern age where female throwers - at least those that achieve long distances - have either failed tests or understandably attract mass suspicion.
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Postby deanouk » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:59 am

Isn't it strange that people are so suspicious of women athletes, especially with those competing in Eastern Europe & China, (and with good reason, I hasten to add), but don't give a seconds thought to all the men's middle and distance events (1k - 3k, as well as numerous, almost yearly smashing of the record at 5 & 10k) that were set in the mid-late '90's, when there was a product that existed which not only would improve their performance markedly, but also was undetectable until 2002!?
There was always the danger that some of the women from previous eras could get caught for steroid abuse when competing outside their home country, but no such deterrent existed for men in the late 90's. They knew they would get away with it. Lol.

Not sure if that makes people sexist, anti-communist or slightly racist! :?
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Postby Marlow » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:06 am

ALL (!) WRs COULD be suspicious, but saying that Athlete X IS dirty is simply not fair to anyone.
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Postby Matt » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:15 am

Completely agree, Marlow
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Postby Paul Henry » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:22 am

I see where this thread is heading.

.....(but my input is...there really are records out there that really are.....questionable when one looks at the situations surrounding them, but until there is a ruling form some authority Matt and Marlow have all rights to say what they say and those of us who would really want to be realists will just have to keep our cool and await the day of truth)

Moderator watch this one its gonna be of those threads....
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Postby dukehjsteve » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:28 am

Marlow wrote:
jhc68 wrote:I'd throw in all the jumps WRs as well.

You've just openly accused Isinbayeva of taking PEDs. This thread is over.


How about all those 24 foot LJ's ?! Kind of funny that the world's best can barely get over 23 these days. Hmmmm, I wonder why ???
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Postby Marlow » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:45 am

dukehjsteve wrote:I wonder why ???

The point I have been trying to make is that every and any WR can be called into question, but I still believe in 'innocent until proven guilty', because I have been falsely accused of things in my life and I know how UNFAIR it is. When Marion was accused of PEDs, everyone here thought I was defending HER, but I was merely defending the above dictum. I have a very realistic idea of how high the %age of PED usage has been in the last 50 years, but I won't accuse someone without PROOF.
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Postby eldrick » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:10 am

deanouk wrote:Isn't it strange that people are so suspicious of women athletes, especially with those competing in Eastern Europe & China, (and with good reason, I hasten to add), but don't give a seconds thought to all the men's middle and distance events (1k - 3k, as well as numerous, almost yearly smashing of the record at 5 & 10k) that were set in the mid-late '90's, when there was a product that existed which not only would improve their performance markedly, but also was undetectable until 2002!?


the only problem with that "theory" is that the 800wr was set in '97, 1.5kwr in '97 & 3kwr in '96

that leaves 5 - 6y of "still undetectable" on testing but no improvement in wrs ???

also no improvement in 5k/10k wrs between '98 & '04 ???

There was always the danger that some of the women from previous eras could get caught for steroid abuse when competing outside their home country, but no such deterrent existed for men in the late 90's. They knew they would get away with it.


???
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