All-Time Combo Men's 1/2/4 Sprinters (Blake #4)

[Smoke]

Average or not what he has done says to me I have zero reason to doubt his ability to run 42.xx. As has been said he has yet to devote any real attention to the event, but he has done more towards the 400 than the 100 and we see what happened when he focused on the 100. The man ran 45.3 as a 15 year old. He has run 45.2 this year in February or March.
It is a safe bet to say he has the ability to be a serious quarter miler. But not without effort and some pain. Which is not guaranteed he is willing to do. Doesn't mean he cannot do it. The beauty is he has said he will go after it next year. Woohoo!

[Gleason]

i woudn't be surprised if bolt doesn't bother with the 400 until his '30s...

He told the BBC in December that he was thinking of 2010 for the 400 (why not? no OG/WC to get in the way)

I agree with both statements. If Bolt wins 100/200 in Berlin he will have a pass there, so he is free to run 400s. If running 400s in 2010 and/or 2011 harms his 100 speed, he can drop 400 in 2012.

He has a win/win situation if he wins another double in 2009.

[paulthefan]

Average or not what he has done says to me I have zero reason to doubt his ability to run 42.xx. As has been said he has yet to devote any real attention to the event, but he has done more towards the 400 than the 100 and we see what happened when he focused on the 100. The man ran 45.3 as a 15 year old. He has run 45.2 this year in February or March.
It is a safe bet to say he has the ability to be a serious quarter miler. But not without effort and some pain. Which is not guaranteed he is willing to do. Doesn't mean he cannot do it...

That is an understatement!.. If I had to design the perfect quarter miler, it would be a 6'4" fellow of boltesque proportions... But I never would have dreamed that the greatest 100m man would have turned out to fit in the same frame. That is what makes this sport so exciting, the human body continues to surprise us.

[sprintblox]

The man ran 45.3 as a 15 year old. He has run 45.2 this year in February or March.

Not quite ... he was 16 when he ran 45.35 in 2003, and he ran 45.54 in February this year.

But I agree with your overall point. Bolt can be a beast in the 400m if he wants to. If there is anybody on the scene now who is eventually capable of sub-43, Bolt is the one.

[phenom583]

i woudn't be surprised if bolt doesn't bother with the 400 until his '30s

if i were him/team, i'd try to 3-peat the 100/200 wins in london '12 & chicago '16 ( maybe even 4-peat in jo'burg '20 ! )

a 200/400 double is nice, but glory/media is always with the 100/200 one

there is always the risk that training to run 43s might kill off his 100 speed for good & that is not a risk worth taking until he's completey ended all his ambition over 100m

That never happened with Marita Koch, the greatest sprint tripler in history, men or women. She came within 0.02 seconds of holding all 3 records in 1983, the only year she abandoned the 400 for the 100/200. That came after several years of running the 400 as her specialty. If she could combine those events with such spectacular success, why not somebody else, like Bolt?

wasnt she on peds?

[Texas]

Average or not what he has done says to me I have zero reason to doubt his ability to run 42.xx. As has been said he has yet to devote any real attention to the event, but he has done more towards the 400 than the 100 and we see what happened when he focused on the 100. The man ran 45.3 as a 15 year old. He has run 45.2 this year in February or March.
It is a safe bet to say he has the ability to be a serious quarter miler. But not without effort and some pain. Which is not guaranteed he is willing to do. Doesn't mean he cannot do it. The beauty is he has said he will go after it next year. Woohoo!

I gotta go with you on this. While I think he has the physical tools to be a great 400m man I just don't see the "need" to be one. As you/we know the 400m...hurts. I had to run a few 4x4's because of injury to our real 4x4 guys, talk about totally bummed.....damn! Scared me to death, yep..pain! With his 100/200m success is the kid going to want to endure all that pain, I have my doubts.

His 45low won't get him much vs the 400m elite.

[sprintblox]

wasnt she on peds?

It wasn't proven. If you suggest too strongly that she did, the mods will ban you and/or lock this thread.

[sprintblox]

I gotta go with you on this. While I think he has the physical tools to be a great 400m man I just don't see the "need" to be one.

If all he wants to do is make a good living and collect a few more gold medals, he can keep running the 100/200.

But if he wants the sort of ultimate greatness that people will talk about into next century, owning the 100/200/400 world records at the same time or winning Olympic gold in those three in the same games would put him a lot closer to that level. The "need" depends on how lofty his ambitions are.

[Smoke]

Sprintblox of course it was proven, it just has been ignored because no one wants to redo the records. The regime was exposed, it includes Koch and Dreschler to name a couple. But these 2 women alone represent a complete redo of the women's sprint and jump history.

She was not the greatest tripler, that wold be Gwen Torrence or Marie Perec, and we can include Privalova.

[sprintblox]

Sprintblox of course it was proven, it just has been ignored because no one wants to redo the records. The regime was exposed, it includes Koch and Dreschler to name a couple.

You and I can draw our own conclusions about them and some of the others who shall not be judged or named. But the mods here, they have different criteria for "proven" and will exercise their authority accordingly.

[skiboo]

She was not the greatest tripler, that wold be Gwen Torrence or Marie Perec, and we can include Privalova.

Without invoking selective filters for who was clean and who was maybe not, Koch is by herself. Are you filtering on the men's side using personal bias? If not, then, unfortunately we cannot do so on the distaff side either. Personally, Privalova never impressed me over one lap - 49.7x is nothing to write home about in this kind of discussion. In some respects she belongs in the same breath as Koch, anyway. Maybe I'm wrong, has anyone ever compiled a list of the greatest women combo runners like we have here with the men, based on points?

[Jon]

has anyone ever compiled a list of the greatest women combo runners like we have here with the men, based on points?

Here's a list that is a bit out of date by a year or so:
http://athleticsimaging.com/wp-content/ ... 270407.htm

[skiboo]

has anyone ever compiled a list of the greatest women combo runners like we have here with the men, based on points?

Here's a list that is a bit out of date by a year or so:
http://athleticsimaging.com/wp-content/ ... 270407.htm

Thank you very much! It's a bit of a weird read, seeing as how Irena Szewinska finishes behind Pam Marshall. Clearly just assigning points leaves out quite a bit of other criteria in this kind of thing. I know the IAAF knows what they're doing when constructing these tables, but it still feels strange seeing some great 100/200 doublers with horrible 400 times - around 51 seconds - outranking some of the most sizzling quartermilers ever. I know, it is just one third of the total. Interesting stuff, and thanks again.

[berkeley]

has anyone ever compiled a list of the greatest women combo runners like we have here with the men, based on points?

Here's a list that is a bit out of date by a year or so:
http://athleticsimaging.com/wp-content/ ... 270407.htm

If we throw in the 800, how far ahead would Kratochvilova be ?

[berkeley]

Thank you very much! It's a bit of a weird read, seeing as how Irena Szewinska finishes behind Pam Marshall. Clearly just assigning points leaves out quite a bit of other criteria in this kind of thing. I know the IAAF knows what they're doing when constructing these tables, but it still feels strange seeing some great 100/200 doublers with horrible 400 times - around 51 seconds - outranking some of the most sizzling quartermilers ever. I know, it is just one third of the total. Interesting stuff, and thanks again.

The same is true on the men's side. It's easy to be a 100/200 doubler, the 400 is just very different. If we compiled a 200/300/400 list, I think we would see the 400 specialists show more strongly over the 200 specialists.

[sprintblox]

Maybe a 100/400 combo list would be a better measure of the versatility of sprinters, as that wouldn't have the heavy 100/200 bias.

[paulthefan]

List needs updating for Felix. Put in her pr at 200m and let her run a few more serious 400m races and she catapults herself to the top tier.

[guruof track]

List needs updating for Felix. Put in her pr at 200m and let her run a few more serious 400m races and she catapults herself to the top tier.

Needs to update Sanya Richards 100 as well

[EPelle]

Lots of changes at the top since we last visited this topic, with Powell making big jump with his 45.94 Down Under.

The top half-dozen (points from IAAF Scoring Tables):

3833—Usain Bolt 9.69 19.30 45.28
3817—Michael Johnson 10.09 19.32 43.18
3712—Xavier Carter 10.00 19.63 44.53
3687—Mike Marsh 9.93 19.73 45.08
3685—Asafa Powell 9.72 19.90 45.94
3679—Wallace Spearmon 9.96 19.65 45.22

Gay needed to crack 46,00 (45,89) at Texas in order to break the 3.685 combo tie with Powell and pass Carter for third all-time (3.713-3.712); Gay equalled Powell with his 46,34 at Sun Devil last week. Spearmon entered yesterday's race six points behind Gay and Powell on the all-time combo list.

As you know, Gay excelled at the 400m distance yesterday, running 45,57 to tally 3.733 points combined. There are too many steps involved yet for Gay to reach Michael Johnson, but I believe Gay could squeeze out another 23 points this season (9,73/19,57).

Xavier Carter is now 21 points back of Gay. Carter can use the 400m to gobble up those points, needing to improve from his 44,53 to 44,20 to tie and 44,18 to re-take that spot if Gay doesn't make any more improvement over 100m and 200m this season.

[EPelle]

Gay earned another six points yesterday, bringing his combo score to 3.739. He remains in third, 78 points behind Johnson. Carter doesn't yet appear capable of catching back up to Gay on short-sprint PB's, but he can still make up ground if he's able to unleash a 44,12 to tie, 44,10 to break. Each man's best running is likely still in front of him.

Last time Gay ran, I predicted he had a 19,57 in him this season. He ran 19,58 yesterday.

[The Atheist]

Last time Gay ran, I predicted he had a 19,57 in him this season. He ran 19,58 yesterday.

Geez, nice call!

That said, I'm guessing you were estimating that 19.57 would be his SB for this season, and would thus be coming in late summer, not late May. Hehehe. Looks like you might want to crank your prediction down a couple tenths now.

[EPelle]

I really do actually stink with these predictions. I hit one square on the head (to the 1:100) last summer in the w-800m, but fail miserably in prediction contests

[Hano]

Update:

3893—Usain Bolt 9.58 19.19 45.28
3817—Michael Johnson 10.09 19.32 43.18
3762—Tyson Gay 9.71 19.58 45.57
3712—Xavier Carter 10.00 19.63 44.53
3687—Mike Marsh 9.93 19.73 45.08
3685—Asafa Powell 9.72 19.90 45.94
3679—Wallace Spearmon 9.96 19.65 45.22

9.58 is worth a mind blowing 1374 (the highest number of points for any men WR)

[RamGoat]

Powell has increased his total by 95 points -- 3590 to 3685 -- from the last list; Bolt has moved up 199 points -- from 3634 to 3833. If Powell can match 200m PB's with Mike Marsh, he'll stand at 3712, tied with Xavier Carter for third all-time. Carter can keep sole possession of third with a likely improvement over 400m; he'll be hard-pressed to be sub-10,00/sub-45,00 at the same time, but perhaps the first-ever.

I think Powell is a projected 19.5 guy but he is too scared of the curve.. sad really.

[feltdog70]

Here's a near-certainty (as equal to the certainty that death and taxes shall come upon you): Bolt should be the only man to ever reach 4.000 points. If he never improves in the 100m or 200m, he will have to run 400m in 42,74 to reach that level. If he runs 100m in a 9,55 and 200m in 18,99, he'll have to "only" cross the finish line at 400m in 44,30 to earn 4.000 points. If he ends up just under 44,00 (43,98), he'll need to stop the 100m clock somewhere at/below 9,50 and not have to worry about improving over 200m.

42.74! 9.55! 18.99! Those are video game numbers that you're just nonchalantly throwing around. Bolt may be the best candidate to break the 4000 barrier in the sprints, but I wouldn't call it as certain as death and taxes.

9.55 aint a video game time anymore. Bolt ran 9.58.

[Jon]

Is double Asian Games champ Femi Ogunode the highest-scoring junior combination sprinter? He has PBs of 10.25/20.43/45.12.

[gh]

The "best" combo Junior that leaps to my mind is Steve Williams: 9.3y, 20.2(A), 44.9(A).

[rson]

Wouldn't the performances be of roughly the same intrinsic value,using the accepted conversion factors?

[Marlow]

Henry Thomas had the 1/4 covered as a Junior with his
10.27
45.09
but, even though he was still 19 when he ran a 20.24, he wasn't a Junior any more.

Ogunode
10.25
20.43
45.12

Williams
9.3y = 10.3x
20.2 =20.4x
44.9 = 45.0x

[trackinblack2]

Gentlemen, where are you looking for Tyson Gay's times?
Tyson's best 400 time is 44.89
100 time is 09.69
200 time is 19.58
I would think that would put him in third place or second behind Johnson. :http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/discussion/posting.php?mode=reply&f=1&sid=efb8f1ba8cc20626a321e04b4357fa12&t=26393#D

[26mi235]

Look at the vintage of this thread, some prior posts are in prior years.

[gh]

Time to resurrect this old gem. With his 400 PR yesterday, Blake moves from No. 5 to No. 4. Top 10 now listed on front page.

[mr.p]

I understand that there's probably no way to compile this list that's not arbitrary. But if you just add up the each runner's times for the three distances, Michael Johnson beats Bolt by almost 1.5 seconds, at 72.59. Why isn't that just as good a system as these points?

[gh]

because the longer the distance, the more the same % of improvement becomes larger, so that would unfairly favor those who are better at the longer/longest distance.

to use a reductio ad absurdum, let's say we wanted a list of the best combo throwers with the 125-pound shot and the 4-pound shot. The difference in distance with the heavier weight will be in inches, whereas with the lighter one it could be many feet. That make sense?

[AS]

One cumulative time variation is to convert each to a 200m time (i.e. 100m time x2, 400m /2)

Here's how it plays out for the top 5:

UB 60.99
MJ 61.09
TG 61.405
YB 62.145
XC 61.895