how the failing newspaper industry shot itself in the foot..


A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (as always, locked for the duration of major international championship)

how the failing newspaper industry shot itself in the foot..

Postby gh » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:02 am

gh
 
Posts: 46323
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Postby Marlow » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:22 am

Indeed.

My current pet peeve is the infinitesimalization of the Sunday comix. My favorite, Zits, was THIS big (4" wide) in the Sunday paper. :evil:

Image
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Postby SQUACKEE » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:30 am

Marlow wrote:Indeed.

My current pet peeve is the infinitesimalization of the Sunday comix. My favorite, Zits, was THIS big (4" wide) in the Sunday paper. :evil:

Image


I love Zits! Just to know that some else knows the suffering of living with a teenage boy makes me smile. Wet towel? Throw it on the floor! :x
SQUACKEE
 
Posts: 12885
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Heaven-In front of stereo listenin to re-mastered Beatles

Postby tandfman » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:32 am

Forget the comics. The troubled state of the newspaper industry is a serious matter.

Here's a column from yesterday's NYTimes about the problems facing the SFChron:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/30/busin ... nicle.html


And today, the Chicago Sun-Times filed for bankrupcty protection. (The Chicago Tribune is already in bankruptcy.)

http://www.suntimes.com/business/150394 ... 09.article

This is not good.
tandfman
 
Posts: 15042
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Postby gh » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:42 am

<<....Media analysts and current and former Hearst executives lay some blame on moves by the company and the previous owners, the de Young family — particularly a damaging 35-year partnership with a smaller paper, The Examiner, whose effects are still felt years after it was dissolved....>>

huh? I could be wrong, but it was always my understanding that until the business climate went completely toxic and the rules changed, the "damaging partnership" was forced on them by anti-monopoly regulations that wouldn't let them merge the two papers when it obvioius is was the only solution.
gh
 
Posts: 46323
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Postby gm » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:18 am

Forget the comics? FORGET THE COMICS???
What are you, some kind of neanderthal?
There's no other reason to buy the paper any more. And it's also why I never bother with the NYT. If you ain't got comics, you ain't worth bothering with!

:lol:
gm
 
Posts: 4559
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: "What's the pre-cooked weight on that lab?"

Postby tandfman » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:42 am

One of the problems that newspapers face these days is that you don't need them to read the comics. I get a link to the daily Dilbert strip e-mailed to me every day. It's free and it comes in the middle of the night. I log on in the morning and there it is. I don't even have to go outside and pick the the newspapers up from the driveway.

I can also read online much of the content of one of the two newspapers I get delivered every day. The other paper actually has more editorial content on its web site than it does in its print edition. It doesn't take a crystal ball to see where all of this seems to be headed.
tandfman
 
Posts: 15042
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Postby Marlow » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:51 am

gm wrote:Forget the comics? FORGET THE COMICS???
What are you, some kind of neanderthal?
There's no other reason to buy the paper any more. And it's also why I never bother with the NYT. If you ain't got comics, you ain't worth bothering with!
:lol:

Aha - our minds have melded! :P
When I'm in a hurry in the morning, here's how I read the paper:

1. Front section - Scan front page for obvious stuff, skip rest of first section.
2. Financial section - Spend 4 nanoseconds on headlines, also checking the price of silver and gold (my only substantial holdings (yeah, I know, I'm an idiot there))
3. Sports section - read first graf in about 6 articles, make mental note to read further that evening, which, of course, I won't - I'll be reading it all tonight in USA Today anyway); look at all the HS sports agate, esp. local prep track meets.
4. Life section - read any TV/movie news of interest, scan the TV listings for the evening, and then read every single comic that I always read, to wit - off the top of my head

Zits
Hagar
Lockhorns
Blondie
Garfield
Brevity
Non-sequitur
BC
Beetle Bailey

etc.

:D

tandfman wrote:One of the problems that newspapers face these days is that you don't need them to read the comics. I get a link to the daily Dilbert strip e-mailed to me every day.


Not the same!
:evil:
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Postby gm » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:06 pm

My order:

1. Sports, even though I hate all pro sports except track :) mostly looking for local stories about T&Fers

2. City/State section with obits

3. Business in case there is a tech column, or to yell at the greedy bastiges who steal from us

4. And then, best of all, the much-awaited......Comics!!!

front page? bleh
gm
 
Posts: 4559
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: "What's the pre-cooked weight on that lab?"

Postby bad hammy » Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:28 pm

Same order every day:

1. Entertainment/comics/etc. (they call it Datebook here)
2. Local
3. Business
4. Front page section
5. Sports (best for last)

No shortcuts - every morning 90 minutes is set aside for this.
bad hammy
 
Posts: 10880
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby gh » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:50 pm

I've had to develop a bit of a new routine because the SF Chron, which has been my fishwrap of choice for 40 years, has rearranged some things as it goes into its death spiral. But like Hammy I'm pretty set in my ways.

1. Read front-page headlines whilst carrying in from the driveway (trying not to trip over the dog and cat who follow me in and out, eagerly awaiting their morning bacon).

2. Take sports page out to the hot tub and unlax for half an hour. This includes doing the weather, which is now on the back of the sports section. (Hey, gotta know when the next full moon is; can't wait for April 9th!).

3. Read front-page section during breakfast, sometimes starting at the back where the Op-Ed material is.

4. Read local section, again sometimes starting at back where they have business stashed (hey, Euro back down to $1.31 again!). Sometimes w/ breakfast, sometimes not until lunch.

5. Read entertainment/comics. This usually gets done the next weekend when I read a whole week's worth. Comix are funnier when the sequence is tighter if they're serializing, which many do.
gh
 
Posts: 46323
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Postby TrackDaddy » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:58 pm

A zillion cable/satellite channels, the internet, satellite radio, and basically information overload helped to cripple them too.

Joker dont have time to read the paper. :oops:

Some days by the time I open the newspaper its the 3rd time I've seen the same story.

The obits are usually new to me though.
TrackDaddy
 
Posts: 4785
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:06 pm
Location: The Command Post

Postby tandfman » Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:29 am

I confess I'm with TrackDaddy. I'm online much of the time when I'm home, and I frequently check news sites. By the time I get the newspaper in the morning, I've read most of what interests me. And I must also confess that, like TrackDaddy, one of the things I always read in print is the obituaries.

The exception to my news-online habit is the Wall Street Journal. Because a good deal of their content is not free online (and I don't pay for the online subscription), I don't usually visit their web site, and so everything is new when I get the paper in the morning. On the other hand, not being a financial professional, there's an awful lot in the WSJ that I never read.
tandfman
 
Posts: 15042
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Postby Marlow » Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:41 am

The problem I'm seeing with the young generation is that they don't read any newspaper because they are so used to getting whatever they need on-line. But they only look at whatever they are already interested in, so their focus is so narrow, they are oblivious to some pretty significant developments outside of i-tunes and what happened to Lindsey Lohan yesterday. As more and more content is provided only on-demand, we become more and more insular in our perspectives. When I read the paper, I end up reading many articles that I didn't even know I would have some interest in before I opened the paper!
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Postby tandfman » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:15 am

Marlow wrote:When I read the paper, I end up reading many articles that I didn't even know I would have some interest in before I opened the paper!

Good point. And a reminder to me to actually read the paper every day even though I've looked at the home page of the paper and much of the inside content on line.
tandfman
 
Posts: 15042
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Postby mike renfro » Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:33 pm

I guess I read the paper (if the U-T can be considered such) inside out. First the sports page. I skim NBA, go over the box scores later (U-T has the shitty abreviated kind, no local team. Doesn't stop baseball boxes) and look for T&F, but usually they barely cover the local college teams. HS coverage is a bit better.

Then on to the NYT crossword. I have to finish it quickly so Mary can have her puzzle. Don't know what we'd do with a paper with only one CW.

Then to the arts/comics/food/catchall section. Figure out what I need to read in the content part, then the comics (don't do the action/romance strips or Cathy, but the U-T dropped it). Back to content section for reviews, etc. By that time, Mary has usually finished the op-ed section. That has contracted since we moved down, but my old paper, SF Chron has the same problem. Not many columns. U-Ts are pretty far right, with George Will being the voice of reason.

Then, the front page. I admit, since I am retired, I don't have any time pressure on the paper. Back when I worked, I usually took chunks of the paper to work.
mike renfro
 
Posts: 3256
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: San Diego

Postby SQUACKEE » Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:52 am

The highlight of my day is my mornin paper and first cup of coffee.

Read the front page on the way back to the house. Sit down, read front page unless i know there is a sports result i have to get.

Can't imagine life without a newspaper.
SQUACKEE
 
Posts: 12885
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Heaven-In front of stereo listenin to re-mastered Beatles

Postby tandfman » Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:59 am

Newspapers have been around a long time, and I can't really imagine that they'll all disappear. But the trend in the business is not good, and the general economic situation isn't helping.
tandfman
 
Posts: 15042
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Postby Marlow » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:19 am

tandfman wrote:Newspapers have been around a long time, and I can't really imagine that they'll all disappear. But the trend in the business is not good, and the general economic situation isn't helping.

We were talking about this at lunch yesterday. General consensus is that when today's 40-year-olds disappear, so will newspapers. :(
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Postby bad hammy » Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:55 pm

For whatever reason there was no paper this morning. Reading it online (and they have a good online site) is NOT the same . . .
bad hammy
 
Posts: 10880
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby Helen S » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:14 pm

Sitting in front of the days newspaper spread out on the table with a big cup of coffee- one of life's priceless treasures.

http://www.mattbors.com/archives/495.html

I have never bought a bottled water.
Helen S
 
Posts: 785
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: in front of the computer

Postby TrackDaddy » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:41 pm

bad hammy wrote:For whatever reason there was no paper this morning. Reading it online (and they have a good online site) is NOT the same . . .


Print it.
TrackDaddy
 
Posts: 4785
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:06 pm
Location: The Command Post

Postby TrackDaddy » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:52 pm

tandfman wrote:Newspapers have been around a long time, and I can't really imagine that they'll all disappear. But the trend in the business is not good, and the general economic situation isn't helping.


I agree, tandf.

I dont think they'll all disappear.

The market will shrink further and to what point I dont know.

But they'll be in breakrooms, breakfast diners, airports, airplanes, etc. I believe.
TrackDaddy
 
Posts: 4785
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:06 pm
Location: The Command Post

Postby bad hammy » Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:02 pm

TrackDaddy wrote:
bad hammy wrote:For whatever reason there was no paper this morning. Reading it online (and they have a good online site) is NOT the same . . .


Print it.

Funny.
bad hammy
 
Posts: 10880
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby TrackDaddy » Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:27 pm

bad hammy wrote:
TrackDaddy wrote:
bad hammy wrote:For whatever reason there was no paper this morning. Reading it online (and they have a good online site) is NOT the same . . .


Print it.

Funny.


:D
TrackDaddy
 
Posts: 4785
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:06 pm
Location: The Command Post

Postby tandfman » Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:25 pm

Meanwhile, the newspaper biz seems to be all over the place in its use or non-use of the web. The Seattle Post Intelligencer recently discontinued its print edition and is now available only online. But the International Herald Tribune has done exactly the opposite. It no longer maintains a separate web site--if you go to its former site, www.iht.com, you're redirected to the so-called global edition of the NY Times web site. But you can get the print edition of the IHT all over the world.
tandfman
 
Posts: 15042
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Postby gh » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:57 am

good relevant column by Arianna Huffington (devoid of political content)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-h ... 85309.html
gh
 
Posts: 46323
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am
Location: firmly at Arya's side!

Postby tandfman » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:11 pm

An interesting column on this in today's NY Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/13/busin ... 3carr.html

Faced with an ad market that no longer supplies enough revenue to meet costs, many newspapers are now considering putting up pay walls on their Web sites, long an anathema in Internet culture. Consumers used to roaming freely across the Web in search of news and opinion may soon find themselves being asked to register at news sites and, in some cases, to fork over a credit card number.
tandfman
 
Posts: 15042
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Postby Marlow » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:14 pm

tandfman wrote: fork over a credit card number.

as long as there is a creditable news source for free out there, it ain't gonna happen. The only site I pay money for is the Florida HS T&F site, flrunners.com, because I can access all the stats there. Tilastopaja would be another one.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Postby tandfman » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:34 am

I think the point of the Times article, and the fears expressed by some, is that because of the economics of the business, there may soon come a time when there won't be any free creditable news sources left.
tandfman
 
Posts: 15042
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Postby Daisy » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:40 am

tandfman wrote:I think the point of the Times article, and the fears expressed by some, is that because of the economics of the business, there may soon come a time when there won't be any free creditable news sources left.


Sounds fair to me.
Daisy
 
Posts: 13153
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby tandfman » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:50 am

Sounds terrible to me. I probably should have added that I agree with Marlow that this is not likely to happen any time soon.
tandfman
 
Posts: 15042
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Postby Marlow » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:50 am

tandfman wrote:I think the point of the Times article, and the fears expressed by some, is that because of the economics of the business, there may soon come a time when there won't be any free creditable news sources left.

It's hard to imagine CNN and Fox News going PPV any time soon.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21088
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Postby Daisy » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:58 am

tandfman wrote:Sounds terrible to me.


Terrible? Why? The alternative is a news organization run by private individuals.

BBC might appear free but everyone has to buy a TV license. If the advertising revenue dries up what other options are there for "free" press (both financially and editorially free)?

As far as i can tell the idea of free news is pretty recent with the internet, where did the free news come from in the past?
Daisy
 
Posts: 13153
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby TrackDaddy » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:52 am

tandfman wrote:An interesting column on this in today's NY Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/13/busin ... 3carr.html

Faced with an ad market that no longer supplies enough revenue to meet costs, many newspapers are now considering putting up pay walls on their Web sites, long an anathema in Internet culture. Consumers used to roaming freely across the Web in search of news and opinion may soon find themselves being asked to register at news sites and, in some cases, to fork over a credit card number.


I don't think that's a new concept.

But now the timing of it may be more appropriate given their struggles.

It was tried before back when you had to register at many newspaper websites and a few asked for money. Ironically(?), I'm pretty sure the NY Times was one of them.
TrackDaddy
 
Posts: 4785
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:06 pm
Location: The Command Post

Postby TrackDaddy » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:55 am

Daisy wrote:
tandfman wrote:Sounds terrible to me.


Terrible? Why? The alternative is a news organization run by private individuals.

BBC might appear free but everyone has to buy a TV license. If the advertising revenue dries up what other options are there for "free" press (both financially and editorially free)?

As far as i can tell the idea of free news is pretty recent with the internet, where did the free news come from in the past?


Arent news organizations already private?

At least in the U.S.

However, I agree that news has never been free.
TrackDaddy
 
Posts: 4785
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:06 pm
Location: The Command Post

Postby Daisy » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:49 am

TrackDaddy wrote:Aren't news organizations already private?


Yes, that is true. i guess I was thinking of the Washington Times run by Moon. At what point does the filtering of news become too strong? Most newspapers do at least attempt to have some balance.
Daisy
 
Posts: 13153
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Postby tandfman » Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:17 pm

TrackDaddy wrote:It was tried before back when you had to register at many newspaper websites and a few asked for money. Ironically(?), I'm pretty sure the NY Times was one of them.

The Wall Street Journal still does. A good deal of their web content requires a paid subscription to the site, even if you are a paid subscriber to the print edition.
tandfman
 
Posts: 15042
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:31 am

Postby TrackDaddy » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:13 pm

Daisy wrote:
TrackDaddy wrote:Aren't news organizations already private?


Yes, that is true. i guess I was thinking of the Washington Times run by Moon. At what point does the filtering of news become too strong? Most newspapers do at least attempt to have some balance.


I'm not sure although there are a few media outlets who come to mind as suspect. 8-)

I agree that in my experience most legitimate papers try to be balanced.

What's funny is that now it seems that most people expect media to be on one side or the other (politically, at least).
TrackDaddy
 
Posts: 4785
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:06 pm
Location: The Command Post

Postby Pego » Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:14 pm

Pego
 
Posts: 10198
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: beyond help

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests