Sonic boom rattles SoCal!


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Sonic boom rattles SoCal!

Postby JRM » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:28 pm

How many of you heard the extremely loud sonic boom from the space shuttle Endeavor's re-entry today (around 1pm Pacific)? Our entire block ran out of their houses, wondering what had happened. Touchdown was at Edwards AFB, 1:35pm.

At first, we thought it was an explosion. Then, we thought it was a weird earthquake. I finally learned that the space shuttle was landing in our backyard today -- and got very upset that I didn't hear about it sooner (otherwise I'd have hopped in the car and driven to see it land!).
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Postby bad hammy » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:31 pm

That brings up a question: whatever happened to sonic booms?? We used to have them all the time when I was a kid but somewhere along the way they stopped, even before a number of local military bases closed down. Did they get legislated out of existence, or what?
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Postby gh » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:46 pm

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Postby gm » Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:47 pm

bad hammy wrote:That brings up a question: whatever happened to sonic booms?? We used to have them all the time when I was a kid but somewhere along the way they stopped, even before a number of local military bases closed down. Did they get legislated out of existence, or what?


Yes. In several countries, laws were passed banning supersonic flight over land. I blame J.J. Fad.
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Postby gh » Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:24 pm

One of the greatest things I saw as a kid was when I was at a remote Nike (the missile, not the shoe!) base in the mountains of Northern Idaho, probably around 1958, and they had a flyover by my favorite plane of the time, the F-102 Delta Dagger. Three of them, in tight formation, probably no more than 500ft of altitude and they went sonic on us; thought I'd died and gone to heaven.
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Postby JRM » Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:02 pm

Maybe not quite the same thing, but for the last couple of years the B-2 Stealth Bomber has signaled the start of the Rose Parade. The sound those engines make is quite bone-shattering, even at "cruise" speed! It was later accompanied by two F117s, but last year was not around (maybe they were all overseas...).

Here's a shot I took a few years ago:

Image
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Postby Marlow » Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:52 pm

Most Mach+ jets are also capable of very high altitudes, so now they merely climb to altitude before going super-sonic. Then it just sounds like distant thunder.
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Postby jhc68 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:31 pm

When the shuttle landed regularly at Edwards we here on the California central coast area got pretty used to window rattling booms on every return. The loudest I ever heard, though, was when the SR-71 set the record for a coast to coast flight not long before the Blackbird was official retired from service... have they brought them back into use post-9/11 or not?
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Postby marknhj » Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:53 pm

I was in Joshua Tree at 1pm and didn't hear a thing. Did have an awesome view of Venus and Jupiter next to the new moon driving home though...
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Postby tandfman » Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:20 pm

gh wrote:One of the greatest things I saw as a kid . . . . probably around 1958, and they had a flyover by my favorite plane of the time, the F-102 Delta Dagger.

I have been thinking about this on and off all evening, and I've concluded that there has never been a time in my life when I had a favorite plane. I've had a favorite baseball team, a favorite beer, a favorite tenor, and even a favorite dog, but never a favorite plane. I guess I've missed something. :(
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Postby jhc68 » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:11 pm

I had two favorite planes: the Corsair fighter/bomber and the B-58 Hustler.

I stopped having new favorite planes about the time I lost the ability to identify the exact make, model and year every car I saw.
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Postby bad hammy » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:14 am

JRM wrote:It was later accompanied by two F117s, but last year was not around (maybe they were all overseas...).

How do you know it was not around - it is, after all, a Stealth bomber!
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Postby Marlow » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:39 am

Coolest plane ever

Image
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Postby gh » Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:19 am

jhc68 wrote:I had two favorite planes: the Corsair fighter/bomber and the B-58 Hustler.

I stopped having new favorite planes about the time I lost the ability to identify the exact make, model and year every car I saw.


I stopped as soon as the SR-71 was revealed.
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Postby Vince » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:39 am

NASA is diligently working on a "blended wing/body" designed to eliminate loud sonic booms.
http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Photo/ ... 092-03.jpg

The best aircraft around these days are by far the F-22 Raptor, vectored thrust, steathy and one mean mofo.

Having said that, watching the big birds like the C-5 Galaxy are the best. They are so huge they appear graceful when banking and maneuvering.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:12 am

Marlow wrote:Coolest plane ever

Image


I watched this show on sunday! Top ten fighters.

http://military.discovery.com/technolog ... hters.html
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Postby gh » Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:18 am

They weren't kind to the F-22 in the show (you can also catch top rifles, top pistols, top submarines, etc., etc; all pretty well done), pointing out its utterly ludicrous cost and nobody to fight. A notable boondoggle.
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Postby Marlow » Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:52 am

Speaking of F-22s and sonic booms

Image
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Postby marknhj » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:45 am

gh wrote:They weren't kind to the F-22 in the show (you can also catch top rifles, top pistols, top submarines, etc., etc; all pretty well done), pointing out its utterly ludicrous cost and nobody to fight. A notable boondoggle.


As an airforce brat I was brought up on this stuff. My favorite plane was always the P51 Mustang. There's an excellent WW 2 Air Museum here and I've watched one on flight demo's a few times. Standing next to the runway when it does a low level pass at speed is a fantastic thing to see.
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Postby gh » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:56 am

And of course the P-51 was a horridly disappointing plane until one of you Brits got the brilliant idea of getting rid of the crappy Allison engine and putting in a Rolls Royce Merlin.
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Postby Cooter Brown » Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:02 pm

I know nothing about planes but the KELLET K-2/K-3 AUTOGIRO on display at the USAF National Museum was my favorite they had on display...
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=355
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Postby dukehjsteve » Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:37 pm

My father worked for Grumman Aircraft his whole career, and I used to have a large framed photo ( about 4' x 5' ) of the Grumman Panther. It hung on the wall of my various college rooms for 4 years.
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Postby lonewolf » Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:32 pm

Another vote for the P-51 Mustang.. my late brother-in-law, who flew a variety of planes in combat in WWII, Korea and Viet Nam, often said he could hit more flying by the seat of his pants with a strategically placed piece of chewing gum on the windshield of a P-51 than with the new-fangled jets he flew in Korea.

He was pretty good either way. He was an ace in both WWII and Korea, received multiple DFC w/cluster, relegated to choppers in Viet Nam, where he finally picked up a Purple Heart, about the only decoration he did not have short of the CMH.

Ironically, he never advanced beyond Lt Col because he did not have a college degree. He learned ot fly as a teenager pre-WWII and left college to enlist in the AAF on Dec 8, 1941. He returned to college, in 1946, was called back for Berlin airlift, got out, called back for Korea, said the hell with it and just stayed in. Both his sons attended the Air Force Academy and became pilots and General officers but never matched the old man's record.
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Postby Marlow » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:58 am

This pic is kinda cool.

***see below***

see the Statue of Liberty one
Last edited by Marlow on Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:24 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Marlow » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:01 am

Here's a kinda eerie one.

***see below***

look for the 'Angel'
Last edited by Marlow on Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Daisy » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:09 am

Marlow wrote:This pic is kinda cool.

http://www.tom-phillips.info/images/coo ... ge.251.jpg


You might have access to that site but I don't. It says forbidden when i paste in the url.
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Postby Marlow » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:22 am

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Postby Daisy » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:39 am

Marlow wrote:do they work for you?

Yes, all three work.
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Postby Jack Slocombe » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:39 pm

Daisy wrote:
Marlow wrote:do they work for you?

Yes, all three work.


Double the yep.
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Postby Jack Slocombe » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:39 pm

oops
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Postby cullman » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:16 pm

Love those pre-war air racers and air speed record setters...
Hughes H-1
Image

...and those pointy X-Planes
North American XB-70
Image

cman
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Postby BruceFlorman » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:12 am

If you like cool airplanes and have some time to kill, you can sure waste a lot of it browsing the NASA Dryden Research Aircraft Photo Collection. :D
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Postby gh » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:52 am

Speaking of the F-22 boondoggle, this was in my paper this morning:

<<....Gates also dared challenge the military-industrial complex over egregious military spending on projects such as the $65 billion F-22 stealth fighter plane that was designed to penetrate Soviet air defenses that were never built and has yet to fly a combat sortie in either the Afghanistan or Iraq wars....>>

Sure looks pretty though, eh?
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Postby donley2 » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:13 am

gh wrote:Speaking of the F-22 boondoggle, this was in my paper this morning:

<<....Gates also dared challenge the military-industrial complex over egregious military spending on projects such as the $65 billion F-22 stealth fighter plane that was designed to penetrate Soviet air defenses that were never built and has yet to fly a combat sortie in either the Afghanistan or Iraq wars....>>

Sure looks pretty though, eh?


Hmm. How long can I continue to bite my tongue?
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Postby Marlow » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:49 am

donley2 wrote:Hmm. How long can I continue to bite my tongue?

Until all people who may wish to do us harm have beaten their swords into ploughshares. It's better to build a weapon and never have to use it, than to need a weapon and not have it ready to use. The reality of war is like Murphy's Law, when you're least prepared is when it will come. I'm the most dovish ex-mil you'll ever meet, but even I know the value of constant vigilance and preparedness. Think of all the billions of dollars of nukes (and nuke R&D) that were made in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s that are now obsolete and unusable. MAD works though.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:31 am

Marlow wrote:
donley2 wrote:Hmm. How long can I continue to bite my tongue?

Until all people who may wish to do us harm have beaten their swords into ploughshares. It's better to build a weapon and never have to use it, than to need a weapon and not have it ready to use. The reality of war is like Murphy's Law, when you're least prepared is when it will come. I'm the most dovish ex-mil you'll ever meet, but even I know the value of constant vigilance and preparedness. Think of all the billions of dollars of nukes (and nuke R&D) that were made in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s that are now obsolete and unusable. MAD works though.


What!? Everything my generation said is wrong?

Love is the answer

Give peace a chance

War is not the answer cause only love can conquer hate

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: 8-) 8-) :idea: :idea: :P :P :P :twisted: :twisted:
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Postby Marlow » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:11 am

SQUACKEE wrote:What!? Everything my generation said is wrong?
Love is the answer
Give peace a chance
War is not the answer cause only love can conquer hate
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: 8-) 8-) :idea: :idea: :P :P :P :twisted: :twisted:


As long as 'They' think the same way, it's all good. Would that we could believe that . . .
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Postby gh » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:28 pm

Marlow wrote:
donley2 wrote:Hmm. How long can I continue to bite my tongue?

Until all people who may wish to do us harm have beaten their swords into ploughshares. It's better to build a weapon and never have to use it, than to need a weapon and not have it ready to use. The reality of war is like Murphy's Law, when you're least prepared is when it will come. I'm the most dovish ex-mil you'll ever meet, but even I know the value of constant vigilance and preparedness. Think of all the billions of dollars of nukes (and nuke R&D) that were made in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s that are now obsolete and unusable. MAD works though.


Yes, I'm sure all the poor grunts in Iraq who had to buy their own body armor or cobble together more for their Humvees will be glad to know that when Independence Day comes Will Smith will have something to fly that can beat off the aliens.

I'm certainly happy that the big hats in the Pentagon aren't emulating the French (having prepped for the Franco-Prussian war in 1914 and WWI in 1940), but being too far ahead, IMHO, is about as bad as being too far behind. The brass's love affair with toys at the expense of bodies on the ground has tilted too far.

I'm as hardcore a fan of military technology (particularly planes) as anybody, but the soldiers themselves should come first and they're not being served as well as they should.

At something like $150M per unit, the F-22 is a CEO-type luxury.

end of rant
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Postby Marlow » Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:46 pm

gh wrote:Yes, I'm sure all the poor grunts in Iraq who had to buy their own body armor or cobble together more for their Humvees will be glad to know that when Independence Day comes Will Smith will have something to fly that can beat off the aliens.
I'm as hardcore a fan of military technology (particularly planes) as anybody, but the soldiers themselves should come first and they're not being served as well as they should.
At something like $150M per unit, the F-22 is a CEO-type luxury.
end of rant


I'm not going to trot the hackneyed logic of I've been there and you haven't, so my opinion is worth more, but I and 95% of my fellow military vets know what we want - the biggest, baddest club out there.

In 1986 (!!!) when the F-22 went into R&D we were still neck-deep in the Cold War (which the Soviet Union was 'winning' arms-wise), and we had no way of foreseeing what our needs would be 20 years hence. Even today, where . . . right now . . . we don't need lots of squadrons of it, we cannot foresee what we'll need 5 years hence. It's the cost of living in a still-precarious world.

The body/humvee armor fiasco was not the product of any faulty vision, it was the obvious consequence of rushing into action withOUT any vision at all. The armor was available, but between Congress's recalcitrance (rightfully so) of throwing indiscriminate wads of money into the fray, and the internecine squabbling of Pentagon purse-string holders, the GI on the Baghdad street was forgotten.

Right now the R&D for the F-22 follow-on aircraft is already underway. It will cost much more than the F-22. Shall we tell them to just scrap it because we don't know how many we'll need and when we'll need them? A myopic view of the matter only takes the present into account. It sure LOOKS like we don't need that many right now. But I'm not willing to bet my future on it.

My rant out.
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Postby marknhj » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:11 pm

Marlow wrote:Right now the R&D for the F-22 follow-on aircraft is already underway. It will cost much more than the F-22. Shall we tell them to just scrap it because we don't know how many we'll need and when we'll need them?


My vote would be Yes, scrap it now.
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