Joe the Plumber speaks out on Foreign Policy


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Joe the Plumber speaks out on Foreign Policy

Postby rasb » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:12 pm

Omigawd !!! Are there no limits as to his competencies? What an undiscovered gem --- he surpasses even SP as a multi-tasker, but perhaps his 15 minutes of fame is being stretched a bit?
By the way Joe (or Sam) is predicting the demise of Israel, if Obama happens to get elected. What will tomorrow bring?
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Re: Joe the Plumber speaks out on Foreign Policy

Postby Daisy » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:23 pm

rasb wrote:By the way Joe (or Sam) is predicting the demise of Israel, if Obama happens to get elected.


Serious question, is this bad for the prophesies in Revelations? Maybe that is Joe's angle here? I had read one disputed argument that some evangelicals donate to jewish charities on the grounds that it might be good in that respect.

NYTimes magazine wrote:''What about the Armageddon scenario?'' As Bauer knows, a great many Jews believe that evangelicals want to gather Jews in Israel to bring on the ''End of Days,'' a Book of Revelation big bang that includes the return of Jesus and a Jewish mass conversion.

Bauer dismissed this as the ''odd belief'' of an insignificant minority. ''Most evangelicals support Israel for national-security reasons,'' he said. ''After 9/11 there is a strong interest in foreign affairs, and we have a tendency to identify Israel as good guys.''

"The Rabbi Who Loved Evangelicals (and Vice Versa)" By ZEV CHAFETS Published: July 24, 2005


While this argument might not be taken seriously by intellectuals it does not mean that it is not out there as whispers.
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Postby trig » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:12 am

Shouldn't he be called Joe the not-plumber?
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Postby DrJay » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:20 am

I hear they found some scrolls in some cave near the Sea of Galilee last week, they are the long lost, passed-out-of-memory, little known book of the Bible that missed the deadline getting to the printer, the Book of Joe.
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Re: Joe the Plumber speaks out on Foreign Policy

Postby Mennisco » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:46 am

Daisy wrote:Serious question, is this bad for the prophesies in Revelations?
.


These idiots who want to hasten or be part of the process involved in hurrying the 2nd coming would do well to remember that Jesus said that not even he knew the time of his return, much less any other human. Only God "knows" it. Until then it's a cat in a box waiting to be opened, or some uncollapsed wave function analogue.

btw speaking of Schrodinger and felines, if some molecules from dead kitty reach an observer's nose outside the box, and also outside the room holding the box, does that constitute interference and hence observation of some "system" ? Why do we have to open the box to know what happened to the cat? [in a particularly special hypothetical case]

Maybe JRM or someone equally qualified could pm the answer to me, since it doesn't entirely fail to stray from topic of this thread.

:wink:
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Re: Joe the Plumber speaks out on Foreign Policy

Postby Daisy » Wed Oct 29, 2008 12:49 pm

Mennisco wrote:does that constitute interference and hence observation of some "system" ?


Smells and sounds count as observation. Text messages too.
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Re: Joe the Plumber speaks out on Foreign Policy

Postby JRM » Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:25 pm

Daisy wrote:
Mennisco wrote:does that constitute interference and hence observation of some "system" ?


Smells and sounds count as observation. Text messages too.


Correct. In the quantum mechanical sense, an "observation" is a measurement of (any) physical characteristic that defines the quantum system (e.g. position, momentum, angular momentum, spin, etc...). It isn't literally taken to mean "visually observe".
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Postby tandfman » Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:56 pm

This, I suppose, was inevitable. Joe now has a manager:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008 ... a-manager/
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Postby kuha » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:14 pm

The Monty Python gang couldn't have written a more breath-takingly idiotic script than the one used by the McCain geniuses.
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Postby dukehjsteve » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:20 pm

kuha wrote:The Monty Python gang couldn't have written a more breath-takingly idiotic script than the one used by the McCain geniuses.


I totally agree. I'm a Demo centrist, so I am not unhappy about all this, but if McCain had used his own brain and instincts instead if kowtowing to the Righty Repub Morons, he would be 6 days away from being President-elect. Which probably shows that he's not cut out for the job anyway.
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Postby kuha » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:46 pm

dukehjsteve wrote:
kuha wrote:The Monty Python gang couldn't have written a more breath-takingly idiotic script than the one used by the McCain geniuses.


I totally agree. I'm a Demo centrist, so I am not unhappy about all this, but if McCain had used his own brain and instincts instead if kowtowing to the Righty Repub Morons, he would be 6 days away from being President-elect. Which probably shows that he's not cut out for the job anyway.


Absolutely. McCain is (or at least was) a far better candidate than the one he's been allowed (or forced) to become.

The Republicans truly, truly deserve to get kicked so hard that their ass cheeks come out their ears.
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Postby catson52 » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:56 pm

kuha wrote:
dukehjsteve wrote:
kuha wrote:The Monty Python gang couldn't have written a more breath-takingly idiotic script than the one used by the McCain geniuses.


I totally agree. I'm a Demo centrist, so I am not unhappy about all this, but if McCain had used his own brain and instincts instead if kowtowing to the Righty Repub Morons, he would be 6 days away from being President-elect. Which probably shows that he's not cut out for the job anyway.


Absolutely. McCain is (or at least was) a far better candidate than the one he's been allowed (or forced) to become.

The Republicans truly, truly deserve to get kicked so hard that their ass cheeks come out their ears.


Generally I agree with you 100%. But nobody "forced" McCain to take any stance or position. Having waited (sometimes a little impatiently) for 8+ years, I guess he forgot what his true values were and just had to play to the gallery. If he loses in a week's time, as all "pundits" seem to be saying, he will have helped dig his own political grave.
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Postby DrJay » Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:58 pm

tandfman wrote:This, I suppose, was inevitable. Joe now has a manager:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008 ... a-manager/


Do you think he'll get a $150,000 wardrobe makeover? Nice manicure, pedicure, and leg waxing?
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Postby tandfman » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:44 am

I don't know about that, but I do suspect that with good management, he may have the best chance of his life to find himself in the $250,000+ income bracket that would be taxed a bit more under Obama's plan than under McCain's. Of course, by then, he'd really be Joe the After Dinner Speaker.
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Postby Marlow » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:53 am

catson52 wrote:Generally I agree with you 100%. But nobody "forced" McCain to take any stance or position. Having waited (sometimes a little impatiently) for 8+ years, I guess he forgot what his true values were and just had to play to the gallery. If he loses in a week's time, as all "pundits" seem to be saying, he will have helped dig his own political grave.


Oh, the ignominy of handlers and spin-doctors and their ilk Consultants are paid BigBux to tell a candidate how focus groups think they should look, speak and act. Sadly. common sense would have been a much better guide for McCain. [same holds true for Obama, although he appears to be loathe to abandon his revival preacher slash civil rights activist posturing, even when the handlers tell him he's coming off too 60s-ish and elitist.]

As I was avoiding listening to a campaign ad on the radio ("I approve this message"), it struck me that in a perfect world, all campaign ads in the future would have to have the endorsement of BOTH candidates; that way they'd be forced to have actual issues content, clearly delineating their differences.
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Postby kuha » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:07 am

catson52 wrote:Generally I agree with you 100%. But nobody "forced" McCain to take any stance or position. Having waited (sometimes a little impatiently) for 8+ years, I guess he forgot what his true values were and just had to play to the gallery. If he loses in a week's time, as all "pundits" seem to be saying, he will have helped dig his own political grave.


I was bending over backward to give McCain the potential benefit of the doubt. No one believes more strongly than I that he's run an absolutely idiotic and disgraceful campaign. Everything you say is completely correct.
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Postby tandfman » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:07 am

Marlow wrote:in a perfect world, all campaign ads in the future would have to have the endorsement of BOTH candidates; that way they'd be forced to have actual issues content, clearly delineating their differences.

Oh, yes. That's gonna happen real soon. :roll:
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Postby Marlow » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:43 am

tandfman wrote:Oh, yes. That's gonna happen real soon. :roll:


As soon as y'all come to your senses and make me the KOW (King of the World), it will. In my benign dictatorship, I will allow nations to elect their own leaders, who will, of course, report to me. I doubt, however, that I would countermand any nation's duly elected leader, because I'll be too busy fxing all that ails T&F!! 8-)

And just to give you a sample of my noble goals, once I am the KOW, all the major sports will have to webcast their competitions on one Bahamian web-site, 6 hours to one-week after the competition has ended, using 1994 web technology, while all track meets will be televised live on the major networks.
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Re: Joe the Plumber speaks out on Foreign Policy

Postby Mennisco » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:57 am

JRM wrote:
Daisy wrote:
Mennisco wrote:does that constitute interference and hence observation of some "system" ?


Smells and sounds count as observation. Text messages too.


Correct. In the quantum mechanical sense, an "observation" is a measurement of (any) physical characteristic that defines the quantum system (e.g. position, momentum, angular momentum, spin, etc...). It isn't literally taken to mean "visually observe".


So if a bear farts in the forest and nobody's there to hear and/or smell it, does it make a sound and a smell? Are bears legitimate observers?
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Postby Mighty Favog » Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:00 am

To give you an idea of JTP's level of self-delusion, he plans on running for Congress in '10. His opponent would be 13-term incumbent Marcy Kaptur, who has failed to break 70% only once in the last 11 elections. He might as well set his sights on beating Usain Bolt.
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Postby tandfman » Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:22 am

Marlow wrote:
tandfman wrote:Oh, yes. That's gonna happen real soon. :roll:

As soon as y'all come to your senses and make me the KOW (King of the World), it will. In my benign dictatorship, I will allow nations to elect their own leaders, who will, of course, report to me. I doubt, however, that I would countermand any nation's duly elected leader, because I'll be too busy fxing all that ails T&F!! 8-)

And just to give you a sample of my noble goals, once I am the KOW, all the major sports will have to webcast their competitions on one Bahamian web-site, 6 hours to one-week after the competition has ended, using 1994 web technology, while all track meets will be televised live on the major networks.

Will all of this be before or after you fly or become invisible? :)
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Postby Conor Dary » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:37 am

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Re: Joe the Plumber speaks out on Foreign Policy

Postby Daisy » Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:41 am

Mennisco wrote:So if a bear farts in the forest and nobody's there to hear and/or smell it, does it make a sound and a smell?


No doubt the carbon will find its way into the trees, and they will sense that, even if not able to thank the bear. :)
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Postby trig » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:23 am

Exxon Mobil posts biggest US quarterly profit ever


Joe the not-plumber and Joe Six-Pack types seem to get very upset about people who make less than them getting a handout and gaming the system.
However they don't seem to mind when people who make way more than them do it.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:33 am

There is no other country in the world in which such a large percentage of the working class consistently do the bidding of the elite class as they do in the U.S.A. "Don't give me those take cuts, give them to the billionaires."
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Postby bad hammy » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:43 am

trig wrote:
Exxon Mobil posts biggest US quarterly profit ever


Joe the not-plumber and Joe Six-Pack types seem to get very upset about people who make less than them getting a handout and gaming the system.
However they don't seem to mind when people who make way more than them do it.

Off topic: sorry, trig, every time I see you post now I think of Palin. :?
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Postby bad hammy » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:44 am

jazzcyclist wrote:There is no other country in the world in which such a large percentage of the working class consistently do the bidding of the elite class as they do in the U.S.A. "Don't give me those take cuts, give them to the billionaires."

I read in the newspaper this morning (and did not fact check) that McCain is leading in all 10 of the states nationwide with the lowest average incomes, by an average of 16 points over Obama. It boggles the mind . . .
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Postby trig » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:50 am

bad hammy wrote:
trig wrote:
Exxon Mobil posts biggest US quarterly profit ever


Joe the not-plumber and Joe Six-Pack types seem to get very upset about people who make less than them getting a handout and gaming the system.
However they don't seem to mind when people who make way more than them do it.

Off topic: sorry, trig, every time I see you post now I think of Palin. :?


??????????? Boy are you ever off the mark!
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Postby Conor Dary » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:50 am

bad hammy wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:There is no other country in the world in which such a large percentage of the working class consistently do the bidding of the elite class as they do in the U.S.A. "Don't give me those take cuts, give them to the billionaires."

I read in the newspaper this morning (and did not fact check) that McCain is leading in all 10 of the states nationwide with the lowest average incomes, by an average of 16 points over Obama. It boggles the mind . . .


This explains part of it:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/t ... wo-er.html

"Check out the state map on 538, showing the pattern of support for Obama and McCain. Now go look at the state map on the Civil War Association of the pattern of support for the Union and the Confederacy. Tells you something, don't you think?"
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Postby Daisy » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:51 am

bad hammy wrote:McCain is leading in all 10 of the states nationwide with the lowest average incomes, by an average of 16 points over Obama.


Is it possible that trickle down economics does work in those states? Alternatively, there are bigger issues at stake. I can think of quite a few reason why someone in poverty might vote against their financial interests. Consider the opportunity to push the supreme court over the top with regard to Roe vs Wade. Surely a chance in a life time for pro-choice voters? Actually, i am quite surprised that issue has not been mention on the campaign trail.
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Postby bad hammy » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:57 am

trig wrote:
bad hammy wrote:
trig wrote:
Exxon Mobil posts biggest US quarterly profit ever


Joe the not-plumber and Joe Six-Pack types seem to get very upset about people who make less than them getting a handout and gaming the system.
However they don't seem to mind when people who make way more than them do it.

Off topic: sorry, trig, every time I see you post now I think of Palin. :?


??????????? Boy are you ever off the mark!

It's the name - trig - same as her kid, not the politics !!
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Postby bad hammy » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:59 am

Daisy wrote:
bad hammy wrote:McCain is leading in all 10 of the states nationwide with the lowest average incomes, by an average of 16 points over Obama.


Is it possible that trickle down economics does work in those states?

I just spewed coffee out the nose! These states (LOWest income) are as far from trickle-down blessed as is possible.
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Postby bad hammy » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:01 am

Conor Dary wrote:
bad hammy wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:There is no other country in the world in which such a large percentage of the working class consistently do the bidding of the elite class as they do in the U.S.A. "Don't give me those take cuts, give them to the billionaires."

I read in the newspaper this morning (and did not fact check) that McCain is leading in all 10 of the states nationwide with the lowest average incomes, by an average of 16 points over Obama. It boggles the mind . . .


This explains part of it:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/t ... wo-er.html

"Check out the state map on 538, showing the pattern of support for Obama and McCain. Now go look at the state map on the Civil War Association of the pattern of support for the Union and the Confederacy. Tells you something, don't you think?"

I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell you . . .
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Postby Daisy » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:01 am

bad hammy wrote:
Daisy wrote:
bad hammy wrote:McCain is leading in all 10 of the states nationwide with the lowest average incomes, by an average of 16 points over Obama.


Is it possible that trickle down economics does work in those states?

I just spewed coffee out the nose! These states (LOWest income) are as far from trickle-down blessed as is possible.


It's all relative. Imagine how low their incomes could have been.

But I admit it, I was being facetious.
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Postby trig » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:03 am

bad hammy wrote:
trig wrote:
bad hammy wrote:
trig wrote:
Exxon Mobil posts biggest US quarterly profit ever


Joe the not-plumber and Joe Six-Pack types seem to get very upset about people who make less than them getting a handout and gaming the system.
However they don't seem to mind when people who make way more than them do it.

Off topic: sorry, trig, every time I see you post now I think of Palin. :?


??????????? Boy are you ever off the mark!

It's the name - trig - same as her kid, not the politics !!


Sorry, I misunderstood.
I had the name first, but only because people can't say Trigueiro. My maiden name was simpler.
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Postby Conor Dary » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:11 am

trig wrote:
bad hammy wrote:
trig wrote:
bad hammy wrote:
trig wrote:
Exxon Mobil posts biggest US quarterly profit ever


Joe the not-plumber and Joe Six-Pack types seem to get very upset about people who make less than them getting a handout and gaming the system.
However they don't seem to mind when people who make way more than them do it.

Off topic: sorry, trig, every time I see you post now I think of Palin. :?


??????????? Boy are you ever off the mark!

It's the name - trig - same as her kid, not the politics !!


Sorry, I misunderstood.
I had the name first, but only because people can't say Trigueiro. My maiden name was simpler.


I thought it was because you taught math, and calc or geo just doesn't have the same ring. :)
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Postby trig » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:31 am

My husband's college nickname was trigger (and he's not even blond). I do believe mine is trig because of the math angle.
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Postby tandfman » Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:57 pm

So you would have told Marion Jones that it's a sine to tell a lie? Or that she shouldn't have cosined those checks?

Sorry, I'm going off on a tangent here.
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Postby kuha » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:23 pm

tandfman wrote:So you would have told Marion Jones that it's a sine to tell a lie? Or that she shouldn't have cosined those checks?

Sorry, I'm going off on a tangent here.


What's your angle, man? I must be a square...
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Postby lonewolf » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:41 pm

bad hammy wrote: I read in the newspaper this morning (and did not fact check) that McCain is leading in all 10 of the states nationwide with the lowest average incomes, by an average of 16 points over Obama. It boggles the mind . . .


I can see reasons why this is both puzzling and obvious.

One might expect such demographics would be eager to jump on Obama's socialist gravy train. And, of course, some are.

I do not know what those ten states are but I would guess Oklahoma, where I live, is one of them. Due my long and rather diverse history, I am in contact with people from all economic levels. My impression and surmise, confirmed by historical voting record, is that the majority in this "low income" state, in addition to being basically politically conservative, perceive Obama as an elitist, arrogant ,arugala-eater. Also, the school of hard knocks has conditioned them to not swallow untasted pie-in-the-sky promises. .
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