question for those who voted for Bush the last 2 elections


Normally open July 4th only---the one day a year when partisan politics, religion, etc. are acceptable topics on this Board (within reason). The forum is now closed.

Postby Mennisco » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:34 pm

Mike67 wrote:
AthleticsInBritain wrote:However you feel about abortion it can hardly be compared to the holocaust of Nazi Germany.


Can't be compared? These are human beings!!!!!!!!!!! Abortion kills babies by the millions every year!


Where is your voice, decrying the ghettoization of the weakest members of society, babies born to mothers addicted to crack cocaine, which is brought in by cartels, who launder their money through huge corporations, which are administered by some of the people running the Republican and Democratic parties, and their sidekicks? Are you so dishonest or naive to say that those in power do not know about this, and/or do not benefit from it? Jesus associated with the weakest and neediest people in Israel - social outcasts who were judged "impure" by the religious fundamentalists of his time.

I truly believe he would rail at the agenda of the religious right today, and say :

"Where is your love for all the dispossessed, why do you seize upon one issue, to the marginalization of equally important issues which are killing your children, your sick, your elderly, your infirm, your young people? Why are you complicit in a wicked system of things which exploits the neediest to the grossly disproportionate advantage of those who kill with impunity, to fatten their slothful bellies?"

The words "Get away from me, I never knew you", come to mind when thinking of people who invoke the name of Christ for their selfish, narrow-minded, wicked agendas. I'm not saying you are of this lot Mike, it is not my place to judge you or anyone, but I will not sit by and allow the religious right to continue to pose as representatives of Christ while they support the greedy in the midst of the dying.
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Postby Mike67 » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:40 pm

Mennisco wrote:
Mike67 wrote:
AthleticsInBritain wrote:However you feel about abortion it can hardly be compared to the holocaust of Nazi Germany.


Can't be compared? These are human beings!!!!!!!!!!! Abortion kills babies by the millions every year!


Where is your voice, decrying the ghettoization of the weakest members of society, babies born to mothers addicted to crack cocaine, which is brought in by cartels, who launder their money through huge corporations, which are administered by some of the people running the Republican and Democratic parties, and their sidekicks? Are you so dishonest or naive to say that those in power do not know about this, and/or do not benefit from it? Jesus associated with the weakest and neediest people in Israel - social outcasts who were judged "impure" by the religious fundamentalists of his time.

I truly believe he would rail at the agenda of the religious right today, and say :

"Where is your love for all the dispossessed, why do you seize upon one issue, to the marginalization of those issues which are killing your children, your sick, your elderly, your infirm, your young people? Why are you complicit in a wicked system of things which exploits the neediest to the grossly disproportionate advantage of those who kill with impunity, to fatten their slothful bellies?"

The words "Get away from me, I never knew you", come to mind when thinking of people who invoke the name of Christ for their selfish, narrow-minded, wicked agendas. I'm not saying you are of this lot Mike, it is not my place to judge you or anyone, but I will not sit by and allow the religious right to continue to pose as representatives of Christ while they support the greedy in the midst of the dying.


I began all of this by saying that if we cannot respect the fundamental right to life of the most innocent among us, we will never as a society deal with all of the other evils that we are plagued with. There is no solution in the death of babies! Why is this so hard to understand?
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Postby Mike67 » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:43 pm

AthleticsInBritain wrote:
Mike67 wrote:
AthleticsInBritain wrote:It depends on how you define marriage. To me, marriage is a process by which two people affirm their love and commitment to each other before God. There's no inherent reason why gender has to be an issue. Gays are people too and have a relationship with God as well. Love can never be a sin. Sexual acts can be, but love can't.


Yes, many definitions for marriage can be posited for belief. However, there is only one that can be right. I'll take the definition that my God has revealed through His Church which has the authority from Him to guide humanity on faith and morals.


Be careful when you start talking about Church authority. The Western Church that has its origins in Rome is a pagan-Greek hybrid that bears little relation to the original Church founded by Jesus Christ, Mary Magdalene, and His brother James the Just. It depends on how dogmatic you want to be. Christ's contemporaries would have found modern Christianity blasphemous.

Still, we can only do ourselves what we believe is right. What we don't have the right to do is expect others to conform to those beliefs.


Surely you jest!
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Postby Peter Henderson » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:43 pm

I voted for him twice, I don't regret it, and believe that history will show George Bush to be one of the greatest leaders we've ever had. :D

I don't give a rat's arse what the rest of the world thinks of us. If you really think we would have been better off with Al Gore or John Kerry, you're only fooling yourself.

I wonder how many people truly regret or deny voting for George Bush, and how many say so because it's the "in" thing to do.

These comments, of course, are not limited to this forum. I'm a blue collar union man and am surrounded by people who vote Democrat. BUT...they vote that way, because they're all lemmings. They follow the leader solely because it's what has always been done.

I listen to people every day tell me they hate George Bush. But they don't really know why or they repeat something they read in the papers or heard on the radio.

Also...and this is a word of warning. If you really think that Obama is the one that should lead the Nation over the next several years, you're sadly mistaken. For all the change he talks about, he doesn't seem to have any kind of plan.

Finally, don't let yourself being fooled into believing the nonsense that John McCain is too much like George Bush and a vote for him is like a vote for Bush's third term. The two men a very much different.

Finally, I will echo a few others in this thread by saying "thank goodness Free Speech day is only once a year". I prefer to talk about the Olympic Trials than this stuff. Shame on me, I suppose. :?
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Postby Mike67 » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:45 pm

AthleticsInBritain wrote:Abortions don't compare to the planned, methodical extinction of an entire race for no other reason than jealousy.

Millions of abortions? Are you sure? Just how many women do you think are getting abortions? It's not that easy a decision to make. I'm sure of all the women who consider it, more babies get born than don't.

Mind you, so do car accidents, guns, disease, war, starvation, junk food, cigarettes, alcohol, etc. All preventable. The number of abortions pale into insignificance next to those.


There have been over 35 million in the USA alone since its legalization in 1973!
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Postby AthleticsInBritain » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:50 pm

Your position isn't difficult to comprehend. You believe that abortion is the first priority along the way to sorting out the rest of the world.

However, my position is that I respectfully disagree and think that there are worse evils in the world that need to be fought before we get round to abortion, which I happen to support as the lesser of 2 evils. People inflict far worse evils on the world's children than abortion - such as child abuse, torture, forcing them to kill others in pointless wars. While the aborted child may not have a chance of life, you could argue that it's soul goes straight back to heaven having had no chance to sin.
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Postby Mennisco » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:50 pm

Mike67 wrote:I began all of this by saying that if we cannot respect the fundamental right to life of the most innocent among us, we will never as a society deal with all of the other evils that we are plagued with. There is no solution in the death of babies! Why is this so hard to understand?


Mike, I do not like abortion. I also do not believe girls raped by their fathers should have to bear such a burden, and have the child. I had a thread yanked on the other day over on TNTF, the topic was abortion. I have asked God to forgive me for an abortion my girlfriend had when I was much younger and extremely foolish. I pray for a day when social justice will no longer be the object of scorn from people like Ann Coulter; when all Christians, and people of all faiths, in North America and around the world, will understand that until we address ALL evil with equal zeal and ardour, we will remain a Church divided, exactly what Satan wants.

"We all know the Apostle John’s most simple definition of God. He says: GOD IS LOVE, and by Paul’s definition of love we can know that LOVE DOES NOT KEEP A RECORD OF WRONGS. So, if God does not keep a record of wrongs and He is teaching us to do the same, how can anyone be left out of God’s perfect plan of redemption?

Does God, being defined by LOVE keep a record of our wrongs as the majority of christian organizations teach? If He does keep a record of wrongs then he can not be LOVE. And if He is LOVE then we are safe to assume none of us have a record. GOD IS NOT KEEPING SCORE. That’s why Paul could say with confidence that LOVE WILL NEVER FAIL."


http://boldgrace.com/?p=227
Last edited by Mennisco on Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby AthleticsInBritain » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:53 pm

Mike67 wrote:Surely you jest!


Not at all. God gave every human being free will to make their own choices. God will judge us as he wills at the end of all things. Who is anyone to interfere with God's plan in such an arrogant way?
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Postby Mennisco » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:56 pm

4 minutes and counting..... :wink:
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Postby Mike67 » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:56 pm

Mennisco wrote:
Mike67 wrote:I began all of this by saying that if we cannot respect the fundamental right to life of the most innocent among us, we will never as a society deal with all of the other evils that we are plagued with. There is no solution in the death of babies! Why is this so hard to understand?


Mike, I do not like abortion. I also do not believe girls raped by their fathers should have to bear such a burden, and have the child. I had a thread yanked on the other day over on TNTF, the topic was abortion. I have asked God to forgive me for an abortion my girlfriend had when I was much younger and extremely foolish. I pray for a day when social justice will no longer be the object of scorn from people like Ann Coulter; when all Christians in North America and around the world will understand that until we address ALL evil with equal zeal and ardour, we will remain a Church divided, exactly what Satan wants.

"We all know the Apostle John’s most simple definition of God. He says: GOD IS LOVE, and by Paul’s definition of love we can know that LOVE DOES NOT KEEP A RECORD OF WRONGS. So, if God does not keep a record of wrongs and He is teaching us to do the same, how can anyone be left out of God’s perfect plan of redemption?

Does God, being defined by LOVE keep a record of our wrongs as the majority of christian organizations teach? If He does keep a record of wrongs then he can not be LOVE. And if He is LOVE then we are safe to assume none of us have a record. GOD IS NOT KEEPING SCORE. That’s why Paul could say with confidence that LOVE WILL NEVER FAIL."


http://boldgrace.com/?p=227


By this logic, anything goes! I'm pretty sure there's more to it than that! As a matter of fact, don't forget our good friend Paul who said that "he was working out his salvation in fear and trembling".
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Postby Mike67 » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:58 pm

AthleticsInBritain wrote:
Mike67 wrote:Surely you jest!


Not at all. God gave every human being free will to make their own choices. God will judge us as he wills at the end of all things. Who is anyone to interfere with God's plan in such an arrogant way?


I was refering to your church statement regarding the jest!

Yes, of course we have free will. I don't know what you are referring to in regards to arrogance.
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Postby Mennisco » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:58 pm

Mike67 wrote:By this logic, anything goes! I'm pretty sure there's more to it than that! As a matter of fact, don't forget our good friend Paul who said that "he was working out his salvation in fear and trembling".


Go deeper, Mike, and may God bless you on your journey of understanding.

" All things work together for good, for those who love God, and are called according to his purpose."

As for the rest, they can continue swimming upstream, ignoring the universal current of love, fighting to the last dying breath. God bless 'em all.
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Postby AthleticsInBritain » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:18 pm

Mike67 wrote:
AthleticsInBritain wrote:
Mike67 wrote:Surely you jest!


Not at all. God gave every human being free will to make their own choices. God will judge us as he wills at the end of all things. Who is anyone to interfere with God's plan in such an arrogant way?


I was refering to your church statement regarding the jest!


Not at all. The Roman Church, from which all Western Protestant (and other denominations) is a bastardisation by the Roman state. The celebration of Christmas in December, the Easter date, the Sabbath taking place on a Sunday, and Holy Communion would all be things very alien to 1st century Jews. The lack of observation of Mosaic law continues to be a bone of contention. Jesus certainly followed Mosaic law. To not do so would have got him exiled or killed.

The original Church had goods in common and women priests and Church officials. Original authority was held in Jerusalem, not Rome. Tradition holds that St Peter went to Rome with St Paul (who never met Jesus), but there's no direct evidence, unless you believe the Vatican did actually discover his tomb right under the altar. The Catholic Church edited and compiled the New Testament, with no sure way of knowing whether St Peter was indeed first among the Apostles. Compare and contrast Peter's doubts with Mary Magdelene's faith and that Mary Magdelene was actually the first person in the world to spread the Gospel, or Good News of Christ's resurrection. Of course, for Peter to remain close to Christ at that time may well have risked execution.

The Church of St Thomas in India is actually older than the Roman Church. Folk tradition has Joseph of Arimathea arriving in Britain and setting up Churches years before Peter arrived in Rome. For all we know, Glastonbury may be the oldest Christian site in the world outside of the Holy Land.

If you read the non-canonical Gospels, you soon realise that there are many different views of Christ. Who's to say that the Council of Nicea that originally compiled the New Testament included the right books?
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Postby Mike67 » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:25 pm

AthleticsInBritain wrote:
Mike67 wrote:
AthleticsInBritain wrote:
Mike67 wrote:Surely you jest!


Not at all. God gave every human being free will to make their own choices. God will judge us as he wills at the end of all things. Who is anyone to interfere with God's plan in such an arrogant way?


I was refering to your church statement regarding the jest!


Not at all. The Roman Church, from which all Western Protestant (and other denominations) is a bastardisation by the Roman state. The celebration of Christmas in December, the Easter date, the Sabbath taking place on a Sunday, and Holy Communion would all be things very alien to 1st century Jews. The lack of observation of Mosaic law continues to be a bone of contention. Jesus certainly followed Mosaic law. To not do so would have got him exiled or killed.

The original Church had goods in common and women priests and Church officials. Original authority was held in Jerusalem, not Rome. Tradition holds that St Peter went to Rome with St Paul (who never met Jesus), but there's no direct evidence, unless you believe the Vatican did actually discover his tomb right under the altar. The Catholic Church edited and compiled the New Testament, with no sure way of knowing whether St Peter was indeed first among the Apostles. Compare and contrast Peter's doubts with Mary Magdelene's faith and that Mary Magdelene was actually the first person in the world to spread the Gospel, or Good News of Christ's resurrection. Of course, for Peter to remain close to Christ at that time may well have risked execution.

The Church of St Thomas in India is actually older than the Roman Church. Folk tradition has Joseph of Arimathea arriving in Britain and setting up Churches years before Peter arrived in Rome. For all we know, Glastonbury may be the oldest Christian site in the world outside of the Holy Land.

If you read the non-canonical Gospels, you soon realise that there are many different views of Christ. Who's to say that the Council of Nicea that originally compiled the New Testament included the right books?


Oh boy!
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Postby Mike67 » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:27 pm

Mennisco wrote:[quote="]

Go deeper, Mike, and may God bless you on your journey of understanding.

[/quote]


What???
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Postby Cooter Brown » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:39 pm

Read somewhere that the oldest version of biblical text that exists (Greek? I can't remember) refers to God as "Mother". Then somewhere it later translations it changed to "Father".
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Postby Mennisco » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:44 pm

AthleticsInBritain wrote: Jesus certainly followed Mosaic law. To not do so would have got him exiled or killed.



"You experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them" (Luke 11:46).

"He did away with the law of the commandments in regulations" (Eph. 2:15),

"A Fundamentalist who claims that others must adhere to even one regulation stated in Mosaic Law is bound by the whole of Mosaic Law: "For I testify again to every man that is circumcised (a stipulation of one of the Mosaic laws), that he is a debtor to do the whole law" (Gal. 5:3). Someone cannot just choose to adhere to one (or some) law and not adhere strictly to all the others, or this would literally demonstrate Pharisaical hypocrisy."

http://www.christianspiritualism.org/ar ... repeal.htm

Then to [potentially] confuse the issue [unless you derive a consistent understanding from the words] :

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (Matthew 5:17)"

I thought it DID get him killed, no?
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Postby Cooter Brown » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:47 pm

Image
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Postby Mennisco » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:02 pm

Mike67 wrote:
Mennisco wrote:Go deeper, Mike, and may God bless you on your journey of understanding.

What???

Mike67 wrote:Why is this so hard to understand?

You've got me wondering the same thing.
Mike67 wrote:Economics, pollution, crime, matters nothing when we continue to stand idly by and allow babies to be killed en mass by the millions through abortion. If we as a society cannot muster up the courage to defend these littlest ones, how can we possibly care about starving people in Africa.


You are positing a hierarchy of evils, and trying to make any response to those ills subordinate to YOUR arbitrarily selected greatest evil, dependent upon response to abortion. You are implying, no rather, demanding, that we do nothing about other suffering until your PET PROJECT is completed, to YOUR satisfaction. You are predicating your own happiness on an outcome which you insist on controlling, cannot control, and have not the humility, grace, or wisdom to ask God that His Will, Not Yours, Be Done. I hardly think Jesus wants us to walk around wasting our lives unhappy because things are not exactly as we wish. How else can you help someone, right next door or down the street from you, and make a difference in their lives, and get back some joy in the process - and how much is your obsessing over this issue preventing you from doing that?

If you cannot humble yourself enough to open your mind to this truth, you will carry on your merry way, cheating yourself and others out of a better life.

Amen.
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Re: question for those who voted for Bush the last 2 electio

Postby Daisy » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:27 pm

Mike67 wrote:Gay marriage? There is not and nor can there ever be any such thing.


There is, just not in a church. Not everyone wants to get married in a church. Atheists marry, or are the church against that too?
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Postby Flumpy » Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:55 am

Mike67 wrote:Marriage is a sacrament instituted by God between a Man and a Woman.


No it's not. Marriage is a contract that legally has nothing to do with God at all.

You can choose for the service to take place in a church but it's just as valid if it takes place in registry office or a hot air balloon. God doesn't come into it.
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Postby Mike67 » Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:10 am

Mennisco wrote:
Mike67 wrote:
Mennisco wrote:Go deeper, Mike, and may God bless you on your journey of understanding.

What???

Mike67 wrote:Why is this so hard to understand?

You've got me wondering the same thing.
Mike67 wrote:Economics, pollution, crime, matters nothing when we continue to stand idly by and allow babies to be killed en mass by the millions through abortion. If we as a society cannot muster up the courage to defend these littlest ones, how can we possibly care about starving people in Africa.


You are positing a hierarchy of evils, and trying to make any response to those ills subordinate to YOUR arbitrarily selected greatest evil, dependent upon response to abortion. You are implying, no rather, demanding, that we do nothing about other suffering until your PET PROJECT is completed, to YOUR satisfaction. You are predicating your own happiness on an outcome which you insist on controlling, cannot control, and have not the humility, grace, or wisdom to ask God that His Will, Not Yours, Be Done. I hardly think Jesus wants us to walk around wasting our lives unhappy because things are not exactly as we wish. How else can you help someone, right next door or down the street from you, and make a difference in their lives, and get back some joy in the process - and how much is your obsessing over this issue preventing you from doing that?

If you cannot humble yourself enough to open your mind to this truth, you will carry on your merry way, cheating yourself and others out of a better life.

Amen.


I'm saying that if the human race cannot understand that the killing of their own babies is wrong, these other evils will continue to multiply.
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Re: question for those who voted for Bush the last 2 electio

Postby Mennisco » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:06 am

Daisy wrote:
Mike67 wrote:Gay marriage? There is not and nor can there ever be any such thing.


There is, just not in a church. Not everyone wants to get married in a church. Atheists marry, or are the church against that too?


Unless the church is in Canada. Marriage takes place regularly at the church I attend, and several others, our pastor received the Order of Canada in February, and the recent California Supreme Court decision was based on a submission by Troy Perry, who was married in Toronto:

http://www.revtroyperry.org/20080515PressRelease.htm
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Re: question for those who voted for Bush the last 2 electio

Postby Daisy » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:11 am

Mennisco wrote:
Daisy wrote:
Mike67 wrote:Gay marriage? There is not and nor can there ever be any such thing.


There is, just not in a church. Not everyone wants to get married in a church. Atheists marry, or are the church against that too?


Unless the church is in Canada. Marriage takes place regularly at the church I attend, and several others, our pastor received the Order of Canada in February, and the recent California Supreme Court decision was based on a submission by Troy Perry, who was married in Toronto:

http://www.revtroyperry.org/20080515PressRelease.htm


Good, point, I should clarify I was being parochial and referring to churches in the US. I still don't understand why some churches feel they have a monopoly on marriage. Arguments from the Bible seem very strawman-like with regard to this topic.
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Postby Mennisco » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:11 am

Mike67 wrote:
I'm saying that if the human race cannot understand that the killing of their own babies is wrong, these other evils will continue to multiply.


Reverence for the sanctity of life should pervade every facet of society. When we respect every one of the weakest, and do as Christ did by speaking up for all of them, a larger and more powerful example of authentic love will have a better chance of galvanizing more people to joint action. If special interest groups, across the board, only care about their own agendas [be it homophobic violence, abortion, poverty in some areas but not others, etc], they will continue fighting for attention. Each group appears hypocritical when they seem to care only for their own agendas.
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Postby Mennisco » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:16 am

Cooter Brown wrote:Read somewhere that the oldest version of biblical text that exists (Greek? I can't remember) refers to God as "Mother". Then somewhere it later translations it changed to "Father".


These are only terms to which any spiritual being having a human experience must resort. God has characteristics of both "male" and "female", in spirit. Spirit is not limited by seeing itself in a gendered body.

There is discussion around these issues:

http://www.pistissophia.org/The_Holy_Sp ... pirit.html


"Behind the meaning of the Holy Spirit for Christianity there lie concepts of the Old Testament which form the background for the mission of Our Lord and the teachings of the apostles. "Spirit" in the writings of the Old Testament is not a person or a definable object or substance. It is a mode of describing how the Holy God is active in the world which He created and especially in persons in whom his purpose is fulfilled.(4)"

http://bahai-library.com/bsr/bsr04/43_a ... spirit.htm
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Postby cullman » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:50 pm

Mellow Johnny wrote:Anyone who blames people who voted for Nader as the cause for Bush being elected are way off base. Why don't you blame the people who voted for Bush?

The last 8 years were awful but blaming anyone and everyone for those problems is out of line.

I can see why this forum is locked the other 364 days of the year as many of you know a heckuva lot more about track and field than you do about how our election process works. Maybe some of you should take my high school social studies classes...

Hi MJ, the masses are restless so it's pitch fork and torch time!

Hopefully you teach something about the Constitution as well as the Impeachment process. The mechanisms are there to keep President and the Veep in line but so far haven't been used by the "invertabrate" Speaker of the House according to Reagan's former associate deputy attorney general Bruce Fein, who is considered an expert on Constitutional law.

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Re: question for those who voted for Bush the last 2 electio

Postby mump boy » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:01 pm

Mike67 wrote:. If we as a society cannot muster up the courage to defend these littlest ones, how can we possibly care about starving people in Africa.


the fact that you can get all worked up about the 'killing' of babies that are yet to be born but have no compation for starving people in africa who are actually alive and suffering, says an awful lot about the kind of christian you are. i have no religious belief at all but i can tell you that your kind of christianity is not one that Jesus would have supported.#

evangelical christian republicans believe only they have the bible on their side yet i find it bizaar how people pick and choose which parts of the bible they want to acknowledge.

it's not christian to have an abortion if you've been raped but it's perfectly ok to kill thousands of civilians in far of land because you don't their leaders and want to get your hands on their natural resources

how can you be a chrsitian yet be complain of high taxes when millions of people in your own country don't have sufficient health care ?? i thought it was as easy for a camel to get through the eye of a needle as it is for a rich man to get into heaven !!

completely obsessed with what other people get up to in their private lives yet it should only be those without sin that cast the first stone

hypocrites the lot of you
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Re: question for those who voted for Bush the last 2 electio

Postby SQUACKEE » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:09 pm

mump boy wrote:
Mike67 wrote:. If we as a society cannot muster up the courage to defend these littlest ones, how can we possibly care about starving people in Africa.


the fact that you can get all worked up about the 'killing' of babies that are yet to be born but have no compation for starving people in africa who are actually alive and suffering, says an awful lot about the kind of christian you are.


Mump, thats not what he said. You are being completely unfair.
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Re: question for those who voted for Bush the last 2 electio

Postby Marlow » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:33 pm

mump boy wrote:says an awful lot about the kind of christian you are. i have no religious belief at all but i can tell you that your kind of christianity is not one that Jesus would have supported.#

it's not christian to have an abortion if you've been raped but it's perfectly ok to kill thousands of civilians in far of land because you don't their leaders and want to get your hands on their natural resources

how can you be a chrsitian yet be complain of high taxes when millions of people in your own country don't have sufficient health care ??

hypocrites the lot of you


mump, for someone who professes no faith, you seem to think you know a lot about faith. Telling others what 'Christian' is or is not, when you yourself have no knowledge of it (and you really can't understand what it means to be a Christian unless you are one, just as White Supremists can't know what it must be like to be 'black' (or vice versa, for that matter).

Hypocrisy is pandemic.
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Postby lonewolf » Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:48 pm

I did not even know this forum was on here and I am glad it is not full time. I suppose it is cathartic to have a place to sound off but It cannot help slop over onto the other forums.
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Re: question for those who voted for Bush the last 2 electio

Postby mump boy » Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:10 am

Marlow wrote:
mump boy wrote:says an awful lot about the kind of christian you are. i have no religious belief at all but i can tell you that your kind of christianity is not one that Jesus would have supported.#

it's not christian to have an abortion if you've been raped but it's perfectly ok to kill thousands of civilians in far of land because you don't their leaders and want to get your hands on their natural resources

how can you be a chrsitian yet be complain of high taxes when millions of people in your own country don't have sufficient health care ??

hypocrites the lot of you


mump, for someone who professes no faith, you seem to think you know a lot about faith. Telling others what 'Christian' is or is not, when you yourself have no knowledge of it (and you really can't understand what it means to be a Christian unless you are one, just as White Supremists can't know what it must be like to be 'black' (or vice versa, for that matter).

Hypocrisy is pandemic.


all i know is what was force fed me at school if i am incorrect in any of my statements then feel free to correct me. the point i was making is that it is very concenient to just pick and choose which bits of religion you believe to suit your own narrow minded point of view.

if anyone feels it's ok to prioritise abortion over starving people and suggests that i should not have the same equality as other people, deserves to be pulled up on it. i may not know my bible as thouroughly as others but i know predjudice when i see it
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Re: question for those who voted for Bush the last 2 electio

Postby Marlow » Tue Oct 28, 2008 3:26 am

mump boy wrote:all i know is what was force fed me at school if i am incorrect in any of my statements then feel free to correct me. the point i was making is that it is very concenient to just pick and choose which bits of religion you believe to suit your own narrow minded point of view.

As I say, hypocrisy is pandemic. We all talk a good game, but when push comes to shove, high-minded altruism often falls prey to selfish desires.
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Re: question for those who voted for Bush the last 2 electio

Postby mump boy » Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:40 am

Marlow wrote:
mump boy wrote:all i know is what was force fed me at school if i am incorrect in any of my statements then feel free to correct me. the point i was making is that it is very concenient to just pick and choose which bits of religion you believe to suit your own narrow minded point of view.

As I say, hypocrisy is pandemic. We all talk a good game, but when push comes to shove, high-minded altruism often falls prey to selfish desires.


true but i don't have the arrogance to presume to tell others how to live their lives and don't around trying to enforce my beliefs on others. if you do that then you should at least live up to your own standards and not just pick and chose those that suit you. i don't have religious beliefs but i do believe what people do in their private lives is their own business and as long as they don't hurt others it is not my place to comment or judge. if certain people spent more time worrying about their own behaviour and let others get on with their own lives without trying to encourage intolerance and hate the world would be a better and may i say more christian place
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Re: question for those who voted for Bush the last 2 electio

Postby Marlow » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:23 am

mump boy wrote: i don't have the arrogance to presume to tell others how to live their lives


But I think that IS what you were trying to do. You were telling Christians that they weren't Christian, and they should stop being hypocritical and CHANGE their ways. That is telling people how to live their lives. I am not criticizing you; I think we ALL do that - tell others how to live their lives. I wish the Libertarians were right and we should all just mind our own business and 'live and let live'. The problem is, of course, there really are bad people out there, trying to do others harm, and we can't just let them do whatever they wish.
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Re: question for those who voted for Bush the last 2 electio

Postby SQUACKEE » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:40 am

Marlow wrote: The problem is, of course, there really are bad people out there, trying to do others harm, and we can't just let them do whatever they wish.


The evil doers?
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Re: question for those who voted for Bush the last 2 electio

Postby Marlow » Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:51 am

SQUACKEE wrote:The evil doers?

Y'know - those Illuminati dudes.
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Postby lonewolf » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:02 am

Mump, re-read your posts. You are talking in circles, doing exactly what you condemn others for, saying you do not judge while judging, espousing beliefs about something in which you do not believe, criticizing others priorites while declaring your own.
You are welcome to your beliefs. Just allow others theirs without carping.
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Re: question for those who voted for Bush the last 2 electio

Postby SQUACKEE » Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:09 am

Marlow wrote:
mump boy wrote: i don't have the arrogance to presume to tell others how to live their lives


But I think that IS what you were trying to do. You were telling Christians that they weren't Christian, and they should stop being hypocritical and CHANGE their ways. That is telling people how to live their lives. I am not criticizing you; I think we ALL do that - tell others how to live their lives. I wish the Libertarians were right and we should all just mind our own business and 'live and let live'. The problem is, of course, there really are bad people out there, trying to do others harm, and we can't just let them do whatever they wish.


True but my sympathies are with mump boy, if i may be so bold, 5000 years ago some people who would never know mump would label him a sinner. Imagine it was you, Marlow who they labeled sick? Would you be so understanding?
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Re: question for those who voted for Bush the last 2 electio

Postby Marlow » Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:14 am

SQUACKEE wrote:True but my sympathies are with mump boy, if i may be so bold, 5000 years ago some people who would never know mump would label him a sinner. Imagine it was you, Marlow who they labeled sick? Would you be so understanding?

You lost me. Who is labeling whom sick? (mump was labeling certain Christians sick) Why do you assume I am NOT sick? :twisted: Have I NOT been castigated here on these fora MANY times??!!
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