Carl on Bolt...si.com


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Carl on Bolt...si.com

Postby parkerrclay » Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:04 pm

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Posted: Thursday September 11, 2008 2:03PM; Updated: Thursday September 11, 2008 4:30PM
Arash Markazi > ON THE SCENE


Carl Lewis speaks out on Bolt, U.S. performance in Beijing, more Story Highlights
Lewis insists that lack of random testing leaves Usain Bolt open to suspicion
"I was embarrassed that the U.S. could not pass the baton [in Beijing]"
Nine-time Olympic gold medalist says he can't be compared to Michael Phelps



Last week, SI.com caught up with nine-time gold medalist Carl Lewis at the Audi Best Buddies Challenge, a charity bicycle tour and fundraising event to help people with intellectual disabilities. Lewis weighed in on everything from Usain Bolt's record-breaking performance in Beijing to Team USA fumbling the baton in the relays.

[99% of post cut by mods; what is that some of you morons don't understand about copyright infringement?]
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Postby shearer39 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:24 pm

Does Carl Lewis believe that the world has stood still since the days when he used to run?

He ignores some basic facts about Usain to assume that something must be sinister because he dropped three tenths off his 100 metre time.

Has he bothered to look at the biomechanical adjustments that Usain has made and the fact that he ran 19.93s as a 16 year old with significanly flawed technique?

Does this really mean that the only explanation he can offer for Bolt's dramatic improvement is PEDs?

Clearly then, he is not very bright.

You know, I respected his accomplishments as an athlete but he strikes me as being very bitter. He even insinuates that Asafa Powell is using PEDS. How dare he question the integrity of an athlete like Powell, who has been an advocate of severely punishing cheaters and who has been tested more than he ever was.

What Lewis needs to realise is that these Jamaican athletes are tested more often than he would like to believe.

His argument that half of the men who have run under 9.80 were exposed as cheaters is weak in that Tyson Gay a fellow American athlete who has legally run 9.77s has subjected himself to rigourous testing and has never been found to have cheated.

What he argues is similar to an argument that states that some people should never be able to achieve higher physical standards because others needed PEDs to achieve those standards.

By his own arguments the fact that he once held the world record for the men's 100m, means he was using PEDs.

Oops, I forget. He was.
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Postby 26mi235 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:53 pm

shearer39 wrote:Does Carl Lewis believe that the world has stood still since the days when he used to run?

He ignores some basic facts about Usain to assume that something must be sinister because he dropped three tenths off his 100 metre time.

Has he bothered to look at the biomechanical adjustments that Usain has made and the fact that he ran 19.93s as a 16 year old with significanly flawed technique?

Does this really mean that the only explanation he can offer for Bolt's dramatic improvement is PEDs?

Clearly then, he is not very bright.

You know, I respected his accomplishments as an athlete but he strikes me as being very bitter. He even insinuates that Asafa Powell is using PEDS. How dare he question the integrity of an athlete like Powell, who has been an advocate of severely punishing cheaters and who has been tested more than he ever was.

What Lewis needs to realise is that these Jamaican athletes are tested more often than he would like to believe.

His argument that half of the men who have run under 9.80 were exposed as cheaters is weak in that Tyson Gay a fellow American athlete who has legally run 9.77s has subjected himself to rigourous testing and has never been found to have cheated.

What he argues is similar to an argument that states that some people should never be able to achieve higher physical standards because others needed PEDs to achieve those standards.

By his own arguments the fact that he once held the world record for the men's 100m, means he was using PEDs.

Oops, I forget. He was.


I think that you are a little harsh (but only a little), as Carl was a little more careful in his comments, while at the same time being sometimes careless and selective in a manner that someone n his position should not be.

He said that the difference in testing regimes raises questions because, in part, the US system is now catching a broader array. He had an interesting, but slightly selective comment on VCB. She did not make the team, but she missed by just a smidgen, as those girls were very tightly clustered. She also did make the team, and win a tough OG 200.

He was also selective in the 100m times for Bolt, who had not been racing it, was young, and had great 200 times from far back (I cannot comment specifically about the 'terrible technique' comment above, although I believe it to be true). Furthermore, the 200 really is equally important and for someone to be really good at the 100 when they are really good at the 200 is not that rare (and more common then the converse).

I suspect that Jamaica will become a little more transparent in the testing regime -- they may well be doing a very good job but the specifics are not widely known (but will be more widely known in part because there will be response to Carl and others); in fact there have been comments that have been along these lines for several months now (including pre-OGs).

However, Carl has always been a 'little' bit like this and is not mellowing with age (except for his voice? :lol: ). He does have a lot of responsibility because people are going to ask him questions and he has to do more than cast aspersions.
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Postby Marlow » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:02 pm

Yeah, this is nothing new - just Carl being Carl. There should indeed be vigilance in PED screening - he's right there.
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Postby Cooter Brown » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:06 pm

Who? Oh, the track guy that looked like Grace Jones. That guy.
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Postby Run DMC » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:55 pm

Carl Lewis has always been outspoken. He was also constantly scrutinized during his career. Being a former Olympian does not necessarily make him an expert on all things T&F, but he certainly lived deep in that world. He was asked his opinion and he gave it, no holds barred. But it is just one man's opinion. I don't read his comments as bitter, just that he expects scrutiny as he experienced. If he were truly bitter, he would not be involved in the sport anymore or want to talk about it.

Alan Greenspan said that if he were told he could never discuss politics and financial policies after retiring, he would have never taken the Fed Chairman job. I suspect Carl Lewis feels the same.
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Postby paulthefan » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:30 pm

King Carl is very near being dead on right again:

" I'm proud of America right now because we have the best random and most comprehensive drug testing program. "

It will be interesting to see what 2012 has to say about 5 of 6 short dash wins coming from the carib.
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Postby lexvid » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:47 pm

That's right Carl. Everything in the US of A is good now. Balco is allll behind you. Good thing you keep referencing Ben Johnson which was only 20 years ago. Nothing more shocking or disgraceful has happened in the World of sport since then, right?

Why is it that people keep using Ben Johnson's name when, clearly, much worse has gone on in places like Russia, Britain and the US since then? Please feel free to comment.
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Postby fez » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:03 pm

Being outspoken about an issue is one thing. Casting aspersions and doubt over a specific athlete are another. I really object to him continuing the myth that the Jamaicans aren't tested as much as everyone else. He should do his research.

It just sounds like the same sour grapes that I read on this message board and others.
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Postby fez » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:09 pm

To be honest I'm completely in shock that he would take this line when talking about Bolt, knowing his own history with the press. Could he have been misquoted?

"I don't want to put words in your mouth but"......
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Postby tm71 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:17 pm

CARL LEWIS IS 99 % RIGHT. I applaud the man, now in his late 40s, to come out and flat out tell his opinion. i find it very hard to argue with any of the sound points he makes. He is right on about the Ben Johnson matter, one year he is just bitter and sour grapes, the next year a prophet. And yes despite what myopic people on this board think, it has had a tremendous effect on the sport, even 20 yrs later it is a big deal. Even more than Marion Jones in prison. Even more than Conte and Balco. Even more than Graham. Even more than the Russians and all the others. And he is dead on about the us relay team in the olympics, two dropped buttons, i was hysterical when i read what he said about layrun williams. I mean people will come up with any excuse, even blame an inanimate object like a button ! Say what you want about the man, his character, his personal life, whatever, he is so damn right I can't help but applaud him for having the courage to speak out.
As far as some of the posters on this board, the only thing i can say is that they have the same exact attitude they did before some of the other big names got busted...the ostrich with the head in the sand mentality. Then they wonder why NBC and others media outlets shun track and field...
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Postby MJR » Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:26 pm

Ok, so everyone hates Carl. He's outspoken & brash. A typical sprinter!

He has claimed that most everyone who ran faster than him was on steroid, hgh, etc. Look at the list of those who ran faster & failed a test. Look at it already. Forget the messenger & read the message. He is right. He named them all in his interview. Sure enough, almost everyone who ran faster than him failed a test or was named as involved in some drug ring.

Ostriches, take your heads out of the sand already.
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Carl

Postby hound » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:04 pm

"Alan Greenspan said that if he were told he could never discuss politics and financial policies after retiring, he would have never taken the Fed Chairman job. I suspect Carl Lewis feels the same"

In the most recent issue of _Fortune Magazine_, there's an interesting
opinion piece that argues that _Alan Greenspan_ would be better off
keeping a lower profile, as his speaking out so much on the economy
tends to undermine the positions of the current Fed Chairman....

(though I'm not sure that has much to say about the Carl situation)....

bruce..
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Postby Trackaholic » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:16 pm

tm71 wrote:CARL LEWIS IS 99 % RIGHT. I applaud the man, now in his late 40s, to come out and flat out tell his opinion. i find it very hard to argue with any of the sound points he makes. He is right on about the Ben Johnson matter, one year he is just bitter and sour grapes, the next year a prophet. And yes despite what myopic people on this board think, it has had a tremendous effect on the sport, even 20 yrs later it is a big deal. Even more than Marion Jones in prison. Even more than Conte and Balco. Even more than Graham. Even more than the Russians and all the others. And he is dead on about the us relay team in the olympics, two dropped buttons, i was hysterical when i read what he said about layrun williams. I mean people will come up with any excuse, even blame an inanimate object like a button ! Say what you want about the man, his character, his personal life, whatever, he is so damn right I can't help but applaud him for having the courage to speak out.
As far as some of the posters on this board, the only thing i can say is that they have the same exact attitude they did before some of the other big names got busted...the ostrich with the head in the sand mentality. Then they wonder why NBC and others media outlets shun track and field...


So he was hitting about the rapid improvements made by Ben Johnson. What about Flo-Jo, her improvements were far more drastic. This is very hypocritical.

Carl seems to be very dunce also. How can you use a one off race where bolt ran 10.03 to judge his improvement to 9.69 when bolt ran 19.93 at 17 and did 19.75 last year. Obviously Bolt could have run sub 10 before this year with proper mechanics.

Bolt did 45.34 at 15 and 19.93 at 17. The world has never seen a more talented sprinter. You cant compare no one else to him idiots!.
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Postby bad hammy » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:32 pm

MJR wrote:Ok, so everyone hates Carl. He's outspoken & brash. A typical sprinter!

He has claimed that most everyone who ran faster than him was on steroid, hgh, etc. Look at the list of those who ran faster & failed a test. Look at it already. Forget the messenger & read the message. He is right. He named them all in his interview. Sure enough, almost everyone who ran faster than him failed a test or was named as involved in some drug ring.

Ostriches, take your heads out of the sand already.

When Carl goes off like this I think the word 'hypocritical' comes to mind . . .
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Postby paulthefan » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:33 pm

Trackaholic wrote:So he was hitting about the rapid improvements made by Ben Johnson. What about Flo-Jo, her improvements were far more drastic. This is very hypocritical.

Carl seems to be very dunce also. How can you use a one off race where bolt ran 10.03 to judge his improvement to 9.69 when bolt ran 19.93 at 17 and did 19.75 last year. Obviously Bolt could have run sub 10 before this year with proper mechanics.

Bolt did 45.34 at 15 and 19.93 at 17. The world has never seen a more talented sprinter. You cant compare no one else to him idiots!.


so because Carl did not name every single person in an interview that he thought was on PEDs he is a hypocrite. Well if that is proof of hypocricy then who is not. and since some folks think that hypocricy in such matters is worse than taking PEDs where do we go from here. PPAALEASE!.. more Jamaica yams.
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Postby Trackaholic » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:38 pm

paulthefan wrote:
Trackaholic wrote:So he was hitting about the rapid improvements made by Ben Johnson. What about Flo-Jo, her improvements were far more drastic. This is very hypocritical.

Carl seems to be very dunce also. How can you use a one off race where bolt ran 10.03 to judge his improvement to 9.69 when bolt ran 19.93 at 17 and did 19.75 last year. Obviously Bolt could have run sub 10 before this year with proper mechanics.

Bolt did 45.34 at 15 and 19.93 at 17. The world has never seen a more talented sprinter. You cant compare no one else to him idiots!.


so because Carl did not name every single person in an interview that he thought was on PEDs he is a hypocrite. Well if that is proof of hypocricy then who is not. and since some folks think that hypocricy in such matters is worse than taking PEDs where do we go from here. PPAALEASE!.. more Jamaica yams.


The guy said he was hitting out on BEN JOHNSON long before he got caught, while Flo-Jo was making greater improvements than BEN JOHNSON but some how he never noticed this ever, and i am not talking about this one interview.
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Postby lexvid » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:31 pm

Agree 100%, trackaholic. The Woman's record books are a constant reminder to the stench of the East German regime - a documented steroid factory in the 70's.

I guess if King Carl wants to look at time drops, he should look at Michael Johnson's run in 1996. Did he suggest Michael was on steroids too?
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Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:48 pm

When it comes to being an Ambassador of the sport, Carl Lewis can't hold Michael Johnson's jockstrap. One of my all-time favorite track moments was watching the replay of Johnson watching Usain Bolt break his world record. From the angle of the camera, it didn't appear that he knew that he was being filmed, but he reacted with as much excitement as a Jamaican track fan. There was not even a hint of resentment in his reaction.
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Postby onlooker » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:43 pm

This guy Carl Lewis always rubs me the wrong way. I was wondering where he was all this time during the games. I just knew that he wouldn't have anything good to say about the Jamaicans acheivements, especially Bolt's. Yes there is PED users out there that will be caught but until then, can you just assess the acheivements of an athlete that the world has never seen before. He seems to think that he will always be the greatest and anyone who seem to rival his greatness(Bolt) cannot be clean. Even the most cynical person out there thinks that Bolt is one of those rare talent that comes along once in a generation. Lewis to me is just so pro American and cannot accept the fact that someone from another country is arguably the greatest of all time. He talks about him being a long jumper before a sprinter, but he can't use that same thinking that Bolt didn't focus on the 100m all his career then decided to and realise that he is good at it. I have never seen anyone clown around and look so effortless, PED users or not. I think this guy is as selfish and jealous as they come. I don't know why they want his opinion anyway.


One Love!!
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Postby tm71 » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:19 pm

so carl now is a hypocrite and a dunce ! what stupidity. most of you guys were proabably in diapers in 88 so you don't remember that carl was very suspicious about flo jo and her group during the trials and the olympics. even more so when flo jo retired in early 89, even before the season started, never running another race after the seoul olympics. edwin moses has spoken out on drug use and users, throughout the last 20 yrs, does that make him a hypocrite and a dunce too ?
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Postby eldrick » Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:58 pm

tm71 wrote:what stupidity. most of you guys were proabably in diapers in 88...


that hit the nail right on the head
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Postby eldrick » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:01 pm

MJR wrote:He has claimed that most everyone who ran faster than him was on steroid, hgh, etc.


no

read the script

he discusses only <9.80 guys & their chequered history

his pb was 9.86, so that means he made no comment on the 9.80 - 9.86 guys like donovan, bruny, frankie & ato
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Postby imaginative » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:08 pm

As much as most of us hope that Bolt is clean, we have to accept the
fact that his level of performance causes suspicions. In fact, it
would be naive to rule out the possibility---just as it would be for
Gay, Thompson, or Dix.

If you feel that someones suspicions are unwarrantedly large, a
personal attack is really not going to help. Instead attack the
arguments you consider faulty, point to over-looked evidence to the
contrary, etc.

In particular, for the Jamaicans: Do not take suspicions against Bolt
as a personal insult or a discrimination of Jamaica. Believe me, after
Marion, Gatlin, and Montgomery there is a considerable shadow over the
US athletes in public opinion; the Russians are under much greater
suspicion than the Jamaicans; and at least I have to deliberately fight
the impulse to unfairly think ``cheater'' as soon as I hear the name
of a greek athlete.
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Postby cullman » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:04 pm

Is anyone really surprised with what's in this interview? I would have been shocked if Carl had kept his opinions to himself.

cman
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Postby croflash » Fri Sep 12, 2008 12:24 am

onlooker wrote:This guy Carl Lewis always rubs me the wrong way. I was wondering where he was all this time during the games. I just knew that he wouldn't have anything good to say about the Jamaicans acheivements, especially Bolt's.


Actually, he did say something good about the Jamaicans during the Olympics when he was a guest on German TV. This interview with SI sounds a lot different, but then again it is SI.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:06 am

Lewis was wrong about Jamaican testing. The Jamaicans are subject to random out of competition testing be the IAAF and the JAAA. The problem is that the the JAAA doesn't have an independent testing agency. He also talks about Bolt's 10.03 PR totally out of context as parkerrclay has already pointed out at the top of this page. Also, Lewis omitted Maurice Greene as one of those sub-9.80 guys.
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Postby euan Track Guru » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:26 am

tm71 wrote:so carl now is a hypocrite and a dunce ! what stupidity. most of you guys were proabably in diapers in 88 so you don't remember that carl was very suspicious about flo jo and her group during the trials and the olympics. even more so when flo jo retired in early 89, even before the season started, never running another race after the seoul olympics. edwin moses has spoken out on drug use and users, throughout the last 20 yrs, does that make him a hypocrite and a dunce too ?



Usain Bolt was also in diaper in 1988.


Carl lewis is using falacious reasoning. He draws illogical conclusions from false premises. An example of this type of reasoning based of Carl Lewis reasoning :

Look at these two scenarios below and if you are logical in your reasoning then you will realise that either (a) Carl Lewis cannot reason logically OR (b) The implied conclusion in scenario (2) is true based off carl lewis reasoning.

Scenario (1)
Explicit Statement from Carl Lewis reasoning:Veronica Campbell rank number one in the world over 100 meters did not make the Jamaica Olympics team in 2008 .
implied Concluison Based off Carl Lewis Reasoning: All the other female who beat her at the Jamaica trials in the 100 meters were doping.

Scenario (2)
Fact:Sanya richards (a jamaican by birth with steady traing in the US) rank number one in the world over 100 meters did not make the US world championship team in 2007

Implied Concluison Based off Carl Lewis Reasoning: All the other female who beat Sanya Richards (a genetically Gifted Jamaican by birth) at the US trials in the 400 meters were doping.

I could point out others but you analyze what "king Carl" he is saying and find them:

Bolt who was in diaper when Carl lewis was running has been faster than Carl lewis over 200 in all of these age group categories:

at 15 years old
at 16 years old
at 17 years old
at 18 years old
at 19 years old
at 20 years old
at 21 years old
at 22 years old

etc

In fact Usain Bolt from as early as a 17 year old kid has run faster times than what Carl lewis has ran over 200meters When carl Lewis was 21 years old.
Last edited by euan Track Guru on Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:19 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Postby Smoke » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:09 am

Carl strikes again.

He is FOS

What he said was hard to argue with.
Does not make it right.
He has done this at every improvement and to every sprint star since Ben.
The problem is not this singular interview or him giving his opinion. It is the consistency with which he runs down those better than him.
Notice how he explains away the suspicions on him and his 1988 issues, yet holds all those that have run 9.80 and faster to a strict definition.
He is bitter and has been since he was an athlete. And I was not in diapers, I was a Carl fan. I started hitch kicking in my long jump because I wamted t be like Carl. I could not stand Mike Powell because he broke the record I was just waiting for Carl to take. Now Mike is one of my good friends. Funny what you learn as you get older.
The bigger problem is that Carl is the most recognizable figures in the world and represents track and field to the world, even still. Yet you are hard pressed to find him propping the sport at any point in his life. He believes because he ran fast and jumped far that he did enough for us. Carl has accused MJ, thus the row between Carol and Carl and MJ back in the mid 90s. Everyone remembers MJs comments in 1995 lol.
Carl did leave the sport, and when asked he admitted numerous times it was because he was disillusioned (bitter).
Some of you can try and explain awat this recent article but those of us who know the history are not accepting his recent, bitter rant.
Oh, the Jamaicans are not tested as much as others with independent testing agencies. AND even if their numbers were equal, the lack of an independent agency is the problem. If it is a problem elsewhere then it is a problem in amaica too.
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Postby eldrick » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:27 am

euan Track Guru wrote:Scenario (2)
Fact:Sanya richards (a jamaican by birth with steady traing in the US) rank number one in the world over 100 meters did not make the US world championship team in 2007

Implied Concluison Based off Carl Lewis Reasoning: All the other female who beat Sanya Richards (a genetically Gifted Jamaican by birth) at the US trials in the 400 meters were doping


err...

he didn't mention sanya

probably because she ran 50.68 in that race

this is a gal who has run 48.7

he woud have to be a numbskull to use that as an example of 3 gals beating her that day being dopers

Bolt who was in diaper when Carl lewis was running has been faster than Carl lewis over 200 in all of these age group categories:

at 15 years old
at 16 years old
at 17 years old
at 18 years old
at 19 years old
at 20 years old
at 21 years old
at 22 years old

etc

In fact Usain Bolt from as early as a 17 year old kid has run faster times than what Carl lewis has ran over 200 meters When carl Lewis was 21 years old.


err...

he was doing lj most those early years & little/no 200s

how about redoing that list for bolt & his yearly lj from 15 -22y ?
Last edited by eldrick on Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby 26mi235 » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:29 am

euan Track Guru wrote:Scenario (1)
Explicit Statement from Carl Lewis reasoning:Veronica Campbell rank number one in the world over 100 meters did not make the Jamaica Olympics team in 2008 .
implied Conclusion Based off Carl Lewis Reasoning: All the other female who beat her at the Jamaica trials in the 100 meters were doping.

Scenario (2)
Fact:Sanya Richards (a Jamaican by birth with steady training in the US) rank number one in the world over 100 meters did not make the US world championship team in 2007

Implied Conclusion Based off Carl Lewis Reasoning: All the other female who beat Sanya Richards (a genetically Gifted Jamaican by birth) at the US trials in the 400 meters were doping.

.

???
His implication is not that all of the others are doping but that some might be - there is a suspicious element.

Sanya was not the #1 ranked 100m runner; do you mean 400m?
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Postby Jaack » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:27 am

Douplé
Last edited by Jaack on Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby paulthefan » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:33 am

eldrick wrote:
err...

he was doing lj most those early years & little/no 200s

how about redoing that list for bolt & his yearly lj from 15 -22y ?



Eldy is a category 6 hurricane of T&F wisdom, a "oneman" veritable institution of higher T&F learning.
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Postby Jaack » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:35 am

Speaking of age lists, is there any place to find a comprehensive list of all-time age records?
Cheers
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Postby Jaack » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:47 am

In all honesty, can ANYONE see a motive for Carl's media rants beyond self obsession?

He doesn't care about the sport at all. It's not coming out of genuine concern for the good of the sport or athletes, he just wants to maintain his place as an all time great(est) and does this by doubting the performance(s) of anyone who threatens his achievements.

People trust him, and he is running down the credibility of the sport to the general public. Just when they find something that takes their interest. :?
Then he has the audacity to promote American drug testing and ergo American athletes (Which I guess includes himself), when...let's be honest, the big name take downs have been incredibly detrimental and most of which were caught through external tests/investigations.

It's not like his opinion is unique, many people feel the same way, fair enough. However, such protestations aren't even tolerated on a message board like this. Yet, Mr. Lewis feels it perfectly acceptable to vent his "concerns" to the public via an ever eager media that only report on T&F when the article can contain the word DRUGS?

He just seems really adamant on destroying the sports image.
After all the sport gave him!
I find it really sad
Last edited by Jaack on Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby dakota » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:51 am

I particularly love the observation "that was an issue where people tried to make something out of nothing" as he tries to make something out of nothing about an athlete who unlike him has never failed a drugs test.
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Postby George P. » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:59 am

So, you work for a Big Media outfit with a mission to attract readers and eyeballs. To this end, you need to shake up the joint -- to startle the children and frighten the horses. No natch’ you hunt up Carl Lewis, dependable old Carl. And, sho’ nuff! You get a few provocative quotes that might be enough to get you that pay raise you’ve been badgering your boss about, especially now that gas is approaching $5.
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Postby kamikaze7 » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:06 am

Was'nt King Carl once busted for dope and only saved by a massive USATF cover up ?
A classic case of the pot and the kettle this is
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Postby scoe » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:16 am

Indeed he was

Read Dave Wallechinsky's comments in the Book of the Summer Olympics.

1988 and CL should not have been there, but it was Olympic year and only winning Goldies mattered to the USOC.

No out of season testing then, I believe. How fortunate for some. :roll: :roll:

Nasty hypocrite our Carl, some might consider. The extent to which he benefited is not the issue, but he got a slap on the wrist for breaking the rules.

Sort of don't do it again , you naughty boy.
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Postby cladthin » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:25 am

Can anyone recall who was implicated/mentioned by Cliff Wiley with respect to the 83 Helsinki worlds?

I believe something about a large list of positives somehow disappeared from a hotel safe.
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