High Jump History: Book on Straddling (by Geoff Nelson?)


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High Jump History: Book on Straddling (by Geoff Nelson?)

Postby Marco_45 » Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:20 am

Hello everybody -

since I'm very interested in high jump, I try to find out what happened to the book on High Jump History (Straddle) to be written by Geoff Nelson.

A few years ago I found on the website www.highjumpworld.com several publishings on Joe Faust and other well-known high jumpers/straddlers, and there I read also about the above-mentioned book.

Does anybody know anything about it? From Joe Faust's e-mail of 4 or 5 years
ago we expected it to be published within short. Now we're wondering whether it's out yet. If not so, is there any hope? :wink:

Thanks for replies,

Marco
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Postby tandfman » Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:47 pm

I just took a quick look at amazon.com and google. It looks as if this book has never been published.
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Book on Straddling (by Geoff Nelson)

Postby Marco_45 » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:05 pm

Thanks for your answer. I googled the book several times but couldn't find anything about it. In the T&F topic "Fantasy Mile", one writer mentions this book, too. Unfortunately he didn't answer my question about whether the book is going to be published soon. Do you know anything about Geoff Nelson who should be writing this book?
Still looking forward ... Marco
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Postby tandfman » Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:50 pm

Sorry. I don't think I've never heard of Geoff Nelson before.
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Postby jhc68 » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:32 pm

Geoff has endless, obscure and fascinating stats and bios @ straddle jumpers and lots of cool photos, too. Haven't heard from him in a while but I sent him an email with this link so maybe we'll hear from him....
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Postby mrbowie » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:25 pm

The Joe Faust site was a bit strange with calls for support by using PayPal. I wonder if the high jump book is struggling due to funding. It seemed very interesting at the time. Hope it finds its way to some publisher.
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Postby TrackCEO » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:26 pm

Latest address I have for Joe Faust is: joefaust@hotmail.com

So feel free to write him.

I think Joe's claim to fame is being the first white jumper over 7.

K E N
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Postby Per Andersen » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:12 pm

TrackCEO wrote:
I think Joe's claim to fame is being the first white jumper over 7.

K E N

Stepanov, Bolshov, Kashkarov and Sitkin sure looked white.
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Postby AS » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:34 pm

TrackCEO wrote:I think Joe's claim to fame is being the first white jumper over 7.


Earlier thread on this (http://mb.trackandfieldnews.com/discuss ... php?t=1427) appears to conclude that Yuri Stepanov was the first whitey over, then Igor Kashkarov, and that Faust can claim first white US jumper of the mark... but there is a lot of debate in the thread...
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Postby Per Andersen » Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:52 pm

AS wrote:
TrackCEO wrote:I think Joe's claim to fame is being the first white jumper over 7.


Earlier thread on this (http://mb.trackandfieldnews.com/discuss ... php?t=1427) appears to conclude that Yuri Stepanov was the first whitey over, then Igor Kashkarov, and that Faust can claim first white US jumper of the mark... but there is a lot of debate in the thread...

What is there to debate?
Stepanov, Kashkarov and Sitkin went over 7ft three years ahead of Faust. They used a built-up shoe that was legal at the time and their marks were ratified by the IAAF.
Even if you disregard jumps with the "Shoe" Victor Bolshov still jumped 2.15 (7'1/2" with a legal shoe in the spring of '60. Faust did 7ft in July '60.
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Postby tandfman » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:03 am

mrbowie wrote:The Joe Faust site was a bit strange with calls for support by using PayPal. I wonder if the high jump book is struggling due to funding. It seemed very interesting at the time. Hope it finds its way to some publisher.

Does his site still exist? URL?
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Postby jhc68 » Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:14 am

No, I think the site name was purchased by Dwight Stones.

Faust was the youngest 7 foot jumper ever, in 1960. Brumel, also young at the time, was being called the Russian Joe Faust!

I asked Geoff Nelson via email about the book and he said it was essentially finished and he was having it proof read and is fishing around for a publisher. I think he'd have at least a small market niche of crazies like us.
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Postby jhc68 » Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:23 am

Faust was a sensational prodigy back in the day:
7 ft at age 17 yrs 9 months in 1960
6 ft 81/4 in at age 15 yrs 8 months in 1958
(according to my trusty old Archie's LIttle Black Book
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Postby tandfman » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:03 am

tandfman wrote:
mrbowie wrote:The Joe Faust site was a bit strange with calls for support by using PayPal. I wonder if the high jump book is struggling due to funding. It seemed very interesting at the time. Hope it finds its way to some publisher.

Does his site still exist? URL?

jhc68 wrote: No, I think the site name was purchased by Dwight Stones.

Sounds like a Faustian bargain. :)
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Postby mrbowie » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:20 pm

Joe Faust had many claims to fame.

He was a legend in our neighborhood, where he grew up as a bit of a rough character, bordering on being a bona fide juvenile delinquent. As I recall, he may even have lived in a foster home.

Although a rough kid, we all heard that he took ballet lessons in order to improve his high jumping, and we all wondered what the hell he looked like in tights!

He was a power jumper, with tremendous thrust.

Joe was part of a troika of Southern California jumpers that included Ray Nickelberry and Paul Stuber, who both came from the Ventura/Santa Barbara area.

The three of them put on quite a show.

Faust jumped in a few masters meets a few seasons ago.

The guy is a tremendous resource for information about high jumping and a true character.
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Postby mrbowie » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:25 pm

TrackCEO wrote:Latest address I have for Joe Faust is: joefaust@hotmail.com

So feel free to write him.

I think Joe's claim to fame is being the first white jumper over 7.

K E N


Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick, I certainly hope this is not going to degenerate into a "Pale High Jumpers over 7 feet" thread. Yikes!

Track CEO needs to stick to the old guys and lay off the history. Maybe as an oldster his long-term memory is starting to play tricks on him.
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Postby Marco_45 » Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:22 pm

Thanks to everybody serving so prompt information on Geoff Nelson's book-to-be. Ever since the days of Charles Dumas and, foremost, John Thomas I've been fascinated by straddling.

I still consider it the most beautiful high jump technique and as efficient as any. It sure is a pity that after Vladimir Yashchenko it hasn't been developed further on.

Who knows what might yet be achieved if only someone took it up expertly again...
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Postby mrbowie » Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:22 pm

Marco, watching the straddle is more interesting than observing the flop, but to me it seems that jumpers down in the 7-foot range gain about 4 inches minimun by employing the flop.
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Postby Per Andersen » Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:49 pm

Marco_45 wrote:

I still consider it the most beautiful high jump technique and as efficient as any. It sure is a pity that after Vladimir Yashchenko it hasn't been developed further on.

Who knows what might yet be achieved if only someone took it up expertly again...

But who would do that when the Flop is easier, less demanding and more efficient? The Straddle at the highest level required an enormous amount of power training. After the last four great Straddlers - Yashchenko, Belkov, Beilschmidt and Lauterbach all struggled with knee and leg injuries the Soviet and the East Germans gave up on the Straddle. It's been 24 years since any straddler went over 2.30 and I don't think we will see that technique at the world class level again.

I was also a big Straddle fan but as Dwight Stones used to say: There are no style points in High Jump.
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Postby AS » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:14 pm

Am I right in remembering decathlete Christian Schenk as a straddler? He managed 2.27 back in 1988.

One of the Brit decathletes at the Comm Games in Melbourne last year was also a straddler I think (but certainly not of Schenk's standard)...I've just had a bit of a look on the Athletics Data site and I reckon the guy was Dale Garland from the Channel Islands ("only" a 2.00 performer)...
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Postby jhc68 » Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:55 pm

Pers, and everyone else... since this topic has reared it's ugly head again, what do you think about the straddle/flop question?

Would the greatest straddlers (not just very good straddlers, but the greatest ones) have improved their PRs by flopping?

I'm not convinced of that... certainly straddling is more difficult in some senses and is tough on knees, but flopping plays hell on ankles and presents a different set of technical challenges.

So my question is: Would Brumel, arguably the best straddler ever, have been better as a flopper. Brumel's great athleticism enabled him to take more speed into the take off than any other straddler of his era. He jumped @17 inches overhead. Would he have exceeded that overhead ht as a flopper? Only a very few floppers ever have bettered that overhead clearance in the past 40 years.

My impression is that the single greatest advantage of flopping is that more horizontal speed can be converted at take off, but since Brumel ran so damn fast into the straddle approach, would he have done better flopping?

Also, what about big, slow guys like Thomas? I doubt Thomas would have run significantly faster into a flop approach than he did straddling (specifically about as slow as molasses!)

If no speed is gained by the conversion then there would be no benefit, IMHO.
So what do you younger, smarter guys think?
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Postby dj » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:13 am

jhc68 wrote:Pers, and everyone else... since this topic has reared it's ugly head again, what do you think about the straddle/flop question?

Would the greatest straddlers (not just very good straddlers, but the greatest ones) have improved their PRs by flopping?

I'm not convinced of that... certainly straddling is more difficult in some senses and is tough on knees, but flopping plays hell on ankles and presents a different set of technical challenges.

So my question is: Would Brumel, arguably the best straddler ever, have been better as a flopper. Brumel's great athleticism enabled him to take more speed into the take off than any other straddler of his era. He jumped @17 inches overhead. Would he have exceeded that overhead ht as a flopper? Only a very few floppers ever have bettered that overhead clearance in the past 40 years.

My impression is that the single greatest advantage of flopping is that more horizontal speed can be converted at take off, but since Brumel ran so damn fast into the straddle approach, would he have done better flopping?

Also, what about big, slow guys like Thomas? I doubt Thomas would have run significantly faster into a flop approach than he did straddling (specifically about as slow as molasses!)

If no speed is gained by the conversion then there would be no benefit, IMHO.
So what do you younger, smarter guys think?


I tend to think the answer is "yes, the best straddlers would have gone higher with the flop, IF. . ."

If 1, the had a modern pit which allowed them to land safely;
If 2, they had a modern synthetic jumping surface that was consistent and solid enough to provide the assurance that there would be no slipping/sliding while planting.

No matter how you try, you can't divorce technique from facilities and equipment.
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Postby tandfman » Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:01 am

The fact that virtually everyone flops these days says a lot. I'm sure if there were any possibility that some jumpers could do better with the straddle, there would be some coaches and athletes trying it. These guys are pos, and if they all think the flop is better, they're probably right.
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Postby Per Andersen » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:14 pm

dj wrote:No matter how you try, you can't divorce technique from facilities and equipment.

Very true but Bob Barksdale sure gave it a try :)
I sure wish T&FN would some day show the astonishing picture of Barksdale coming off the bar almost on his back at the 1956 Millrose Games (It was in the Feb '56 issue), say in the "Remember when" series of pictures.

Jhc68, I agree that Brumel was probably the greatest HJer but I prefer Yashchenko's straddle style to Brumel's.

I mentioned four straddlers over 2.30 (7-6-1/2). I see I forgot Yuriy Sergiyenko, 2.34 indoors in 1986.
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Postby jhc68 » Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:56 pm

Pers, I agree. I always use Brumel as the gold standard of straddle jumpers because, well, he was BRUMEL!
But I have always thought that Yashchenko showed a combination of power and flexibility that made for a much more fluid clearance than Brumel at his best. Yash coulda, woulda, shoulda been the best ever.

Is right, of course about technique and equipment, even within the world of straddling. One reason for Yashchenko's smoother clearance technique must have been the luxury of landing in foam, while Brumel often fell 7 feet into sand piles.

Still, how about Yash as the standard for straddle/flop comparison? I recall Markhj sometime ago saying he thought Yash had teh real potential to be the first 8 footer. Based on photos of some of his clearances one might have reason to believe that to be true. Conceivably, given a longer career, Yash could still be the WR-holder... of course that still doesn't mean he wouldn't have jumped higher flopping!!! And maybe the reason he didn't have a long career was the joint stress of the straddle. (Although urban legend has it that juke joint all-nighters had some part in Yash's early retirement)
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Postby dj » Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:50 pm

Per Andersen wrote:
dj wrote:No matter how you try, you can't divorce technique from facilities and equipment.

Very true but Bob Barksdale sure gave it a try :)
I sure wish T&FN would some day show the astonishing picture of Barksdale coming off the bar almost on his back at the 1956 Millrose Games (It was in the Feb '56 issue), say in the "Remember when" series of pictures.


I don't know if T&FN ran a Barksdale photo, but LIFE magazine, or perhaps Saturday Evening Post, ran a sequence set of Barksdale.
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Postby tandfman » Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:05 pm

dj wrote:I don't know if T&FN ran a Barksdale photo

I do. It's in the Feb. '56 issue, just as Per said. It's on page 6.
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Postby Bauchwalzer » Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:14 am

My book, "Belly Roll: The Straddle Style Of High Jumping And Its Impact On The Sport Of Track & Field", is ready for anyone interested. 860 pages and self published. As such, must charge accordingly.
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Belly Roll - Book Order

Postby Marco_45 » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:48 am

Hello from Switzerland!

I sent you a PM with my order and shipping address!

I'm incredibly happy with your book being published now and I'm looking forward to getting it soon!

Kind regards,

Marco
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BELLY ROLL: The Straddle Style - by Geoff Nelson

Postby Marco_45 » Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:05 am

Hello everybody,

on Oct. 7, 2007 Geoff Nelson posted the following message in the "Historical" forum:

"My book, "Belly Roll: The Straddle Style Of High Jumping And Its Impact On The Sport Of Track & Field", is ready for anyone interested. 860 pages and self published. As such, must charge accordingly."

I'm very much interested in this book and want to buy it by (almost) all costs, and I got a PM from Geoff on Oct. 18, but for some unknown reason I don't get no e-mails from Geoff anymore. So I don't know if he's got my answer, or whatever might have happened.

Does anybody out there know anything about Geoff Nelson or his book? I just hope there's nothing wrong with him?

Thanks for any reply,

Marco
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Postby parkerrclay » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:20 pm

Ever hear anymore on this book?

Clay
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High jump history - book on straddling

Postby Bauchwalzer » Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:50 am

"BELLY ROLL: The Straddle Style Of High Jumping And Its Impact On The Sport Of Track & Field"
Profiles of the most significant adherents of the belly roll for the decades of the 30's into the 90's, along with the inclusion of photos & detailed captions, instructional drawings, methods, tables and quotes, an introduction, credits and a bibliography.
Contents:
Gil Cruter, Dave Albritton, Mel Walker, Les Steers, Ken Wiesner, Ernie Shelton, Bengt Nilsson, Charles Dumas, Igor Kashkarov, Yuriy Styepanov, Stig Pettersson, Robert Shavlakadze, John Thomas, Joe Faust, Viktor Bolshov, Valeriy Brumel, Ni Chih-chin, Lawrie Peckham, Ed Caruthers, Otis Burrell, John Dobroth, Valentin Gavrilov, Reynaldo Brown, Pat Matzdorf, Juri Tarmack, Stefan Junge, Rolf Beilschmidt, Henry Lauterbach, Volodomir Yashchenko and Christian Schenk.
Profiled 30 - PhotosCaptions
Belly Rollers All - Photos/Captions
Progression Of:
World Indoor Straddle Record, World Outdoor Strad Rec, World Junior Indoor/ Outdoor Strad Rec, North American Indoor/Outdoor Strad Rec, South American Indoor/Outdoor Strad Rec, Asian Outdoor Strad Rec, African Outdoor Strad Rec, Australian Indoor/Outdoor Strad Rec, European Indoor/Outdoor Strad Rec, All-German Indoor/Outdoor Strad Rec, Int'l Age Group Strad Bests, Profiled 30 Age Group Strad Bests and Best Leaps By Age List and Body Height/Height Straddled Over Head List, First Dozen (Plus) Seven Foot High Jumpers List, Seven Foot Strad List, Body Height/Height Strad Over Head List, World Indoor High Jump List '50-'80, AAU Indoor Champs '36-'64, AAU/NCAA/Euro Indoor Champs '65-'79, World Outdoor High Jump List/World Rankings '36-'80, NCAA/AAU Outdoor Champs '36-'47, NCAA/AAU/USSR Outdoor Champs '48-'80, Dual Meets Between America And The Soviet Union '58-'79, U.S. Olympic Trials '36-'80 and Olympic Games and Euro Champs '36-'80
860 Pages (give or take)
Landscape Format
Bound in three volumes and all lie flat
Softcover
I have a master but have made a few revisions since, one set has gone to my brother and one to Joe Faust.
Self-published
Thanks for the interest and sorry that I've been hard to get hold of.
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Postby parkerrclay » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:16 am

have any extra copies to sell?
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Postby parkerrclay » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:16 am

have any extra copies to sell?
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Postby mrbowie » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:01 pm

Likewise!
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Postby paulthefan » Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:57 pm

Can the straddle make a comeback in the 21st century?
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Postby jhc68 » Sun Sep 07, 2008 3:08 pm

Geoff, you know I've been waiting for a copy for years now! Your old email address bounces back. Email me or send a private message here. Joe C.
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Re: High Jump History: Book on Straddling (by Geoff Nelson?)

Postby tupeke » Fri May 07, 2010 8:23 pm

Has anyone managed to contact the author of this book and buy a copy? I desperately want it!! Anyone know his email address?
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Re: High Jump History: Book on Straddling (by Geoff Nelson?)

Postby bambam » Sat May 08, 2010 9:10 am

Tupeke - if anyone has it it is jhc68, who is listed on a post on this forum on 8 Oct 2005, discussing this 800 unpublished manuscript by his friend Geoff Nelson. JHC68 - did you ever get a copy of this?
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Re: High Jump History: Book on Straddling (by Geoff Nelson?)

Postby jhc68 » Sun May 09, 2010 11:09 am

No, I haven't seen it yet, either!
I count Geoff as a friend even though I've only had email contact with him - we grew up in the same area with lots of overlapping acquaintances and experiences and he seems like a good guy. What I have seen of the book is fragments that were posted years ago on Joe Faust's (no-longer existent) website with great photos and very informed narrative, along with emails from time to time describing new facts or people or trivia that Geoff had discovered.
Geoff was out of contact for a very long time. A few weeks ago, though, I got an email from him. My understanding is that the book is finished but that he has not found a publisher and self-publishing is not an option for him. Me, I might send him the costs of throwing it on the copy machine and mailing it to me if he were of a mind to do so.
At any rate, I just sent him an email to let him know that there are new inquiries on this board. He sometimes posts here so maybe he will give us all the latest progress report or if he replies directly to me I'll relay it on to this thread.
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