EPelle wrote:Alifirenko had apparently been absent due to what officials thought was trouble with his eyes. Little known to them, it was due to a doping bust.
They knew he was doped.......
They:d denied foreknowledge according to live sending on Perviy Kanal 1 last evening.
If the doping bust really was because of a drug used to treat his eye trouble, it doesn't seem like this case is related to the others. I wouldn't use Alifirenko as proof of systematic doping.
EPelle wrote:Alifirenko had apparently been absent due to what officials thought was trouble with his eyes. Little known to them, it was due to a doping bust.
They knew he was doped.......
They:d denied foreknowledge according to live sending on Perviy Kanal 1 last evening.
If the doping bust really was because of a drug used to treat his eye trouble, it doesn't seem like this case is related to the others. I wouldn't use Alifirenko as proof of systematic doping.
The other cases, however...
What cases?i only see athletics. ....Gusev run for Astana,case closed.
Alifirenko have the eye injurie to justify the use of the drug but and as far i remember this is the first time a russian shooter is tested positive.
Btw,Hardy has tested positive,so is the all usa swimming team doped?
Russia have a problem with the athletics,the rest are normal doping cases as in any other countrie.
Last edited by Tiago on Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
Matt wrote:Didn't Hazel Clark have a warning for something or other? Pseudoephedrine? I can't say for sure.
Yes, pseudo, which has subsequently been removed from the banned list (common in cold medications like Sudafed). Came off at the same time caffeine did.
Any lumping of people who fell afoul of cold-medication rules (before the WADAs got their heads together) with true druggies is very unfair.
Your english isn:t so bad that you were able to veer back on course following the admonishment you were earlier provided. Why you:ve gone back down this route again is known only to you.
peach wrote:who did she think in the Olympic 800m final tested positive back in Sydney? Because I can't think of anyone from this list...
1. ML Mutola (Moz) 1:56.15 2. S Graf (Aut) 1:56.64 3. K Holmes (Gbr) 1:56.80 4. B Langerholc (Slo) 1:58.51 5. H Fuchsova (Cze) 1:58.56 6. Z Calatayud (Cub) 1:58.66 7. H Clark (USA) 1:58.75 8. HB Hassi (Mar) 1:59.27
She may have been referring to Graf. She never tested positive, but many of her training partners have done (Ceplak, Pumper, etc). She's like the Shawn Crawford of the women's 800m
Flumpy & peach, with their latest (now excised) posts have confirmed that they don't want abide by the rules of the Board, so they have won a free one-week vacation away from the wars here.
Tiago wrote: What cases?i only see athletics. ....Gusev run for Astana,case closed. Alifirenko have the eye injurie to justify the use of the drug but and as far i remember this is the first time a russian shooter is tested positive.
Btw,Hardy has tested positive,so is the all usa swimming team doped?
Russia have a problem with the athletics,the rest are normal doping cases as in any other countrie.
I should have been more specific: I meant the 7 women athletes (+ the 3 walkers). The nature of the first bust was unusual in that they didn't all seem to be part of the same training group.
I don't mean it is state-sponsored doping; I don't want to kick Russia out of the games. But I would like to see some serious investigation of non-athletes involved in this. Reassign them to Siberia or something...
peach wrote:who did she think in the Olympic 800m final tested positive back in Sydney? Because I can't think of anyone from this list...
1. ML Mutola (Moz) 1:56.15 2. S Graf (Aut) 1:56.64 3. K Holmes (Gbr) 1:56.80 4. B Langerholc (Slo) 1:58.51 5. H Fuchsova (Cze) 1:58.56 6. Z Calatayud (Cub) 1:58.66 7. H Clark (USA) 1:58.75 8. HB Hassi (Mar) 1:59.27
She may have been referring to Graf. She never tested positive, but many of her training partners have done (Ceplak, Pumper, etc). She's like the Shawn Crawford of the women's 800m
I've just had a disastrous morning. I stepped on a piece of glass in my kitchen and - guess what? My entire career is over.
Tiago wrote: What cases?i only see athletics. ....Gusev run for Astana,case closed. Alifirenko have the eye injurie to justify the use of the drug but and as far i remember this is the first time a russian shooter is tested positive.
Btw,Hardy has tested positive,so is the all usa swimming team doped?
Russia have a problem with the athletics,the rest are normal doping cases as in any other countrie.
I should have been more specific: I meant the 7 women athletes (+ the 3 walkers). The nature of the first bust was unusual in that they didn't all seem to be part of the same training group.
I don't mean it is state-sponsored doping; I don't want to kick Russia out of the games. But I would like to see some serious investigation of non-athletes involved in this. Reassign them to Siberia or something...
It is a athletics problem.
Ok,you have doping cases in Weightlifting but no one is clear there as in cyclism.
As for the athletics this is my opinion:
In the runners only borzakovsky seems clean,the female better not to talk.
Jumpers,they are all clean
Throwers,well the hammer top throwers were all suspende so it is a doping system there,the discus the same thing.
Race walkers,Nizhegorodov and Kaniskina are clean and only they can lose the gold medal.
Matt wrote:Didn't Hazel Clark have a warning for something or other? Pseudoephedrine? I can't say for sure.
Yes, pseudo, which has subsequently been removed from the banned list (common in cold medications like Sudafed). Came off at the same time caffeine did.
Any lumping of people who fell afoul of cold-medication rules (before the WADAs got their heads together) with true druggies is very unfair.
Whilst that's true to an extent, everyone knew it was banned and that it was common in cold medications so it was pretty dumb to be taking it during competiition. I also know of plenty of athletes that used it to pep themselves up for training sessions out of season (when it wasn't tested for), was supposed to speed up metabolism as well to help with gettting rid of body fat.
The ones I truly feel sorry for are guys like john capel that have been done for the performance enhancing wonder drug, cannabis.
RUSSIA'S 3000m steeplechaser Roman Usov has been kicked out of the Olympic team after failing a drugs test.
The 30-year-old tested positive for the banned subtance Carphedon at the national championships at Kazan last month where he finished second, local press reported.
Russian Athletics Federation officials refused to comment before Usov's B sample had been tested but confirmed he was expelled from the Olympic squad.
MJR wrote:Other teams have been kicked out & sent home for less.
Really? The whole team, or just one sport from a team?
He said teams, not countries; I interpret teams as sports within a country. Several wrestling and/or weight lifting teams have gotten into trouble, if I recall correctly. I cannot remember if they were not allowed or if they were actually kicked out during the Games.
MJR wrote:Other teams have been kicked out & sent home for less. What is the IOC waiting for?
As sad as it would be to see Isi and Lebedeva miss the games, HOW can the Russian track team compete with any sort of pride?
11 athletes is just too many at this point.
The team should be pulled.
Come on,Rusia is invading Georgia and the ioc says nothing, and now you are worried about the Russian athletic team,if they have doped athletes in Beijing worst for them.
MJR wrote:Other teams have been kicked out & sent home for less. What is the IOC waiting for?
As sad as it would be to see Isi and Lebedeva miss the games, HOW can the Russian track team compete with any sort of pride?
11 athletes is just too many at this point.
The team should be pulled.
Come on,Rusia is invading Georgia and the ioc says nothing, and now you are worried about the Russian athletic team,if they have doped athletes in Beijing worst for them.
I think that the reason is quite clear. If the kick the whole team out of the Games then the powers that be in Russia will be much more protective of their resource, which either means making sure that the doping is not detected (apparently that is not working) or put a lot more pressure to not dope. It would be a disaster for those that run the sport in Russia and if they have a hand in this (i.e., if the doping is 'systematic') then they deserve to be kicked out at some point. Have we reached that point with Russia? Quite possibly, or at least they are getting close. I suspect that there has been some communication with Russia about the consequences.
On a sinister note, betting interests might try to knock out lead contenders to make money, so getting systematic might mean something not identical to just the number of positives. Note, however, that the sample-switching episode tends to fit into to 'systematic' category.
MJR wrote:Other teams have been kicked out & sent home for less. What is the IOC waiting for?
As sad as it would be to see Isi and Lebedeva miss the games, HOW can the Russian track team compete with any sort of pride?
11 athletes is just too many at this point.
The team should be pulled.
Come on,Rusia is invading Georgia and the ioc says nothing, and now you are worried about the Russian athletic team,if they have doped athletes in Beijing worst for them.
I think that the reason is quite clear. If the kick the whole team out of the Games then the powers that be in Russia will be much more protective of their resource, which either means making sure that the doping is not detected (apparently that is not working) or put a lot more pressure to not dope. It would be a disaster for those that run the sport in Russia and if they have a hand in this (i.e., if the doping is 'systematic') then they deserve to be kicked out at some point. Have we reached that point with Russia? Quite possibly, or at least they are getting close. I suspect that there has been some communication with Russia about the consequences.
On a sinister note, betting interests might try to knock out lead contenders to make money, so getting systematic might mean something not identical to just the number of positives. Note, however, that the sample-switching episode tends to fit into to 'systematic' category.
It makes no sense to kick out an all team....this is individual sport.
MJR wrote:Other teams have been kicked out & sent home for less. What is the IOC waiting for?
As sad as it would be to see Isi and Lebedeva miss the games, HOW can the Russian track team compete with any sort of pride?
11 athletes is just too many at this point.
The team should be pulled.
Come on,Rusia is invading Georgia and the ioc says nothing, and now you are worried about the Russian athletic team,if they have doped athletes in Beijing worst for them.
I think that the reason is quite clear. If the kick the whole team out of the Games then the powers that be in Russia will be much more protective of their resource, which either means making sure that the doping is not detected (apparently that is not working) or put a lot more pressure to not dope. It would be a disaster for those that run the sport in Russia and if they have a hand in this (i.e., if the doping is 'systematic') then they deserve to be kicked out at some point. Have we reached that point with Russia? Quite possibly, or at least they are getting close. I suspect that there has been some communication with Russia about the consequences.
On a sinister note, betting interests might try to knock out lead contenders to make money, so getting systematic might mean something not identical to just the number of positives. Note, however, that the sample-switching episode tends to fit into to 'systematic' category.
It makes no sense to kick out an all team....this is individual sport.
I just gave you a reason for kicking the team off. The sport is not run as 20000 different groups, one for each athlete. There is a federation at the top and if it looks like there is organized doping or lack of systematic attempt to stop dopping, and Russia fits some of the characteristics, like requiring a Visa, then the federation is responsible. Kicking out only those that test positive when they are not doing their job adequately is rewarding those that have the power and resources to do the job.
MJR wrote:Other teams have been kicked out & sent home for less. What is the IOC waiting for?
As sad as it would be to see Isi and Lebedeva miss the games, HOW can the Russian track team compete with any sort of pride?
11 athletes is just too many at this point.
The team should be pulled.
Come on,Rusia is invading Georgia and the ioc says nothing, and now you are worried about the Russian athletic team,if they have doped athletes in Beijing worst for them.
I think that the reason is quite clear. If the kick the whole team out of the Games then the powers that be in Russia will be much more protective of their resource, which either means making sure that the doping is not detected (apparently that is not working) or put a lot more pressure to not dope. It would be a disaster for those that run the sport in Russia and if they have a hand in this (i.e., if the doping is 'systematic') then they deserve to be kicked out at some point. Have we reached that point with Russia? Quite possibly, or at least they are getting close. I suspect that there has been some communication with Russia about the consequences.
On a sinister note, betting interests might try to knock out lead contenders to make money, so getting systematic might mean something not identical to just the number of positives. Note, however, that the sample-switching episode tends to fit into to 'systematic' category.
It makes no sense to kick out an all team....this is individual sport.
I just gave you a reason for kicking the team off. The sport is not run as 20000 different groups, one for each athlete. There is a federation at the top and if it looks like there is organized doping or lack of systematic attempt to stop dopping, and Russia fits some of the characteristics, like requiring a Visa, then the federation is responsible. Kicking out only those that test positive when they are not doing their job adequately is rewarding those that have the power and resources to do the job.
Didn't Iaaf gave the world champions 2013 to Balakhnichev?isn't Balakhnichev one of the most important figures in the iaaf?
The race walkers and usov dope cases were detected by Russia,
Tiago wrote:... Didn't Iaaf gave the world champions 2013 to Balakhnichev?isn't Balakhnichev one of the most important figures in the iaaf?...,
No, the IAAF gave the '13 WC to the Russian Federation. As a first-year Council member, I would guess that Balakhnichev is not one of the most important figures in the IAAF.
Unless of course he's also the president of the Russian bank that was behind the winning bid!
9 clean medals...then of course comes Sadova,Samitova,Petrova,Andrianova.
15-20 medals for russia in the end,it couyld be 30 at full squad. [/quote]
Well, Tiago, do not discard the chances of Chernova, Volkova, Borchin, Guschina, Chicherova, Feofanova, Sibileva and the 4x400 m (W)... or even Abakumova... In an ideal competition, Russia could still get close to 30...
To all of those suggesting Russia's athletics team should be kicked out of Beijing, please... Inocent people should never pay for the guilty ones. You cannot seriously believe all 105 of the current squad are doped...??
Imagine if Jamaica's sprinting (100-200 m, M & W) clan was found with steroids... Would you send the entire team home??
Is it just because this is powerful, once dominant Russia? Would you like to have a "walk in the park" like in LA 1984? In a sport where we have all gotten use to the worst ever since Ben Johnson's case in 1988, what is the point of being so moralistic?? We all know there is a LOT of drugs in our sport! (Look at all US 400 m runners that have retrospectively been DQed...) Lets just DQ the ones found guilty and, as in LAW, presume the INNOCENCE of those never caught!
....Gusev run for Astana,case closed.
