more trouble in Russia


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Postby 26mi235 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:27 am

Tiago wrote:
EPelle wrote:They also had a cyclist test positive. Sanctions may very well be on the way for the Russians.


:?

Maybe i am sounding the lawyer of the russians here but Gusev never tested positive. :wink:


He never 'tested positive' for a particular substance (e.g., EPO). However, his blood and urine values give indications of manipulations that are implicated in doping. He lost his job and is out of the Olympics as well, so it is a pretty strong indication of a problem. Remember that Rasmussen also did not 'test positive' and neither did MS Jones.
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Postby EPelle » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:32 am

Tiago wrote:
EPelle wrote:They also had a cyclist test positive. Sanctions may very well be on the way for the Russians.


:?

Maybe i am sounding the lawyer of the russians here but Gusev never tested positive. :wink:

No, but his levels were dissatisfactorily enough outside the parametres of the agreement signed by the other 29 riders in the competition where the irregularities were discovered that he has been replaced.
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Re: more trouble in Russia

Postby Tiago » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:33 am

Jaack wrote:
Tiago wrote:
Russian athletics survives for another day, 8-)
You must be so proud.


It is the truth,this was no surprise...i don't think this is a big case,voevodin is old and out of form,Buraev have always doping suspicious against him,only Kanaykin is a lost but Nizhegorodov is the gold bet for Russia anywway.

They said that Kanaykin had health and was left out of the team because of that,well now we now why. :lol:

The blow for the russia team was soboleva case. :cry:
Last edited by Tiago on Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Tiago » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:34 am

EPelle wrote:
Tiago wrote:
EPelle wrote:They also had a cyclist test positive. Sanctions may very well be on the way for the Russians.


:?

Maybe i am sounding the lawyer of the russians here but Gusev never tested positive. :wink:

No, but his levels were dissatisfactorily enough outside the parametres of the agreement signed by the other 29 riders in the competition where the irregularities were discovered that he has been replaced.


Well Menchov will do better then him anyway. :wink:
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Postby az2004 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:57 am

ah, with this level of cheating, is there any thought the 2013 world coukd be taken from moscow??

as penalty..
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Postby 26mi235 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:59 am

az2004 wrote:ah, with this level of cheating, is there any thought the 2013 world coukd be taken from moscow??

as penalty..


Seems unlikely, although a big competition penalty might make Russia less interested in the event.
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Postby lapsus » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:09 am

Tiago wrote:Athletes who test positive,annouce today:

Владимира Канайкина, Алексея Воеводина и Виктора Бураева



Thank you for the clarification. The native form of names also makes it easier to google for news and information in Russian.
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Postby Flumpy » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:15 pm

Jaack wrote:
How can anyone trust Russian results in Beijing. When they go 1,2,3 in the women's steeple


They won't be going 1,2,3 in the WSteeple :wink: :D
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Postby noahnathan » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:06 pm

Hi Flumpy! Do u know something we will all be chuffed with re: w3000 m steeple ?
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Postby AthleticsInBritain » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:08 pm

I think Eunice Jepkorir might have something to say about a Russian 1-2-3 ...
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Postby Jon » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:12 pm

As would Dominguez perhaps...
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Postby nevetsllim » Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:12 pm

Marta Dominguez too. I can see her sneaking a bronze. Jepkorir worries me because she always looks as though she's gonna fall over one of the barriers, like she nearly did in Barcelona last month.
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Postby EPelle » Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:30 am

Brace yourselves for the reports or even further denials of the reports:

The president of the All-Russian Athletics Federation dismissed media reports Wednesday that a further 11 Russian athletes have tested positive for banned substances in the run up to the Beijing Olympics.

http://en.rian.ru/sports/20080806/115830248.html
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Postby Tiago » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:32 am

Сергей Алифиренко не выступит на Олимпиаде в Пекине также из-за проблем с допинг-контролем
Знаменитый российский стрелок, олимпийский чемпион-2000 и бронзовый призер Олимпиады-2004 Сергей Алифиренко (на фото) не выступит на Играх не только из-за проблем со зрением, но и из-за нарушений антидопингового законодательства, допущенных во время лечения. Эту версию Агентству спортивной информации "Весь спорт" подтвердили сразу несколько источников в Стрелковом союзе России (ССР) и Штабе российской делегации России в Пекине.

Официальную версию вчерашнего, 6 августа, исключения 39-летнего Сергея Алифиренко из состава олимпийской сборной России на Играх в Пекине Агентству спортивной информации «Весь спорт» озвучил главный тренер команды по пулевой стрельбе Олег Лапкин. "У Сергея Алифиренко в последнее время появились проблемы со зрением - сказал Олег Лапкин. - У него глаукома, повышенное внутриглазное давление. Олимпийский отбор Сергей не прошел, но мы все равно включили его в команду как олимпийского чемпиона, и до последнего надеялись, что станет лучше. К сожалению, лечение результатов не дало. В последнее время у Алифиренко дела не шли: чемпионат России он проиграл, Кубок России на призы президента Стрелкового союза России – тоже, на контрольных стрельбах не показывал все, на что способен. И нам пришлось сделать замену еще до нашего отправления в Пекин. Вместо Сергея Алифиренко на Олимпиаде выступит Леонид Екимов, чемпион Европы нынешнего года".

Источники в руководстве ССР и Штабе российской делегации России в Пекине подтверждают, что у Сергея Алифиренко возникли проблемы со зрением. Но поправляют: реальной причиной исключения из олимпийской команды стали не они, а нарушения антидопингового законодательства, допущенных во время лечения. По нашим данным, для лечения глаукомы Сергей Алифиренко использовал тот же препарат, что и биатлонистка Татьяна Моисеева, обвиненная в минувшем зимнем сезоне в применении допинга, - дексаметазон. По непонятным причинам, на его использование знаменитому стрелку не оформили терапевтическое исключение. Национальный допинг-контроль показала наличие в организме запрещенного препарата, документы были отправлены в Международную федерацию спортивной стрельбы (ISSF) и Всемирное антидопинговое агентство (WADA).

В настоящее время ISSF настаивает на санкциях – двухлетней дисквалификации Сергея Алифиренко. Дискуссии по этому поводу продолжаются, но руководители ССР и олимпийской сборной России, во избежание допинговых скандалов в Пекине и возможного лишения олимпийских медалей, как и в случаях с российскими легкоатлетами и велосипедистом Владимиром Гусевым, решили исключить Сергея Алифиренко из олимпийской команды. Окончательное решение по делу Алифиренко, очевидно, будет принято уже после завершения Олимпийских игр в Пекине.


Now a shooter also? :?

In the last week Russia had 12 doping positive cases knowed. :shock:

What's next?
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Postby peach » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:34 am

EPelle wrote:Brace yourselves for the reports or even further denials of the reports:


Uh-Oh. Surely if they do have 20 odd positives in such a short space of time, they can't let the team compete ? I mean, it's outrageous and with old Arne weighing saying he thinks it's systematic, it's hardly looking good...
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Postby EPelle » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:36 am

Alifirenko had apparently been absent due to what officials thought was trouble with his eyes. Little known to them, it was due to a doping bust.
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Postby Tiago » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:40 am

EPelle wrote:Alifirenko had apparently been absent due to what officials thought was trouble with his eyes. Little known to them, it was due to a doping bust.


They knew he was doped.......
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Postby 26mi235 » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:41 am

Tiago:

I know that you are very new here and that your English is not as good as your command of other languages, so I am making a comment about posting policy.

Even though it is in Russian copyright law and board policy limit reproduction to 'fair use'. This usually means just enough to get key information without any more than a minor subset. You should trim out most of the post (just use the 'edit' button that appear in the upper right of any post that you make).

Keep on supplying us with news that would take longer to penetrate our English-centered world; thanks.
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Postby Tiago » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:49 am

26mi235 wrote:Tiago:

I know that you are very new here and that your English is not as good as your command of other languages, so I am making a comment about posting policy.

Even though it is in Russian copyright law and board policy limit reproduction to 'fair use'. This usually means just enough to get key information without any more than a minor subset. You should trim out most of the post (just use the 'edit' button that appear in the upper right of any post that you make).

Keep on supplying us with news that would take longer to penetrate our English-centered world; thanks.


Tk,i will try to update with russian doping news latest.

There is another doping rumour circulating in this morning btw.....

It is related with athletics but we should wait......
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Postby Tiago » Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:56 am

EPelle wrote:Brace yourselves for the reports or even further denials of the reports:

The president of the All-Russian Athletics Federation dismissed media reports Wednesday that a further 11 Russian athletes have tested positive for banned substances in the run up to the Beijing Olympics.

http://en.rian.ru/sports/20080806/115830248.html


Yeah,i check some info in this morning about this but are not very reliable sources.......
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Postby EPelle » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:16 am

Tiago wrote:
EPelle wrote:Alifirenko had apparently been absent due to what officials thought was trouble with his eyes. Little known to them, it was due to a doping bust.


They knew he was doped.......

They:d denied foreknowledge according to live sending on Perviy Kanal 1 last evening.
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Postby Tiago » Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:40 am

Ok, Alifirenko case is not what can you call a doping case.

Sadly my english is not good to explain it..... :(

And again russian olympic comitee was aware of this situation.
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Postby peach » Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:50 am

So Tamsyn Lewis has weighed in with comments about doping and the Australian team and other Australians seem to be denouncing her for doing so...

I don't understand why. I mean, I'm not saying Tamsyn Lewis would be an Olympic champion now if all the drugs were rooted out, but to be fair, if I were a clean athlete (which, of course, we can only assume she is), I'd be MIGHTILY pissed off by now...
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Postby peach » Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:51 am

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Postby Daisy » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:01 am

peach wrote:So Tamsyn Lewis has weighed in with comments about doping and the Australian team and other Australians seem to be denouncing her for doing so...


Why are they denouncing her? It seems far less provocative than Paula Radcliffe holding up the "EPO cheats out" sign and most fans sympathized with her at the time.
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Postby EPelle » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:03 am

Yegorova was a live case... a real person. Lewis is simply muckraking.
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Postby Daisy » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:15 am

EPelle wrote:Yegorova was a live case... a real person. Lewis is simply muckraking.


Makes sense, I thought she was more specifically attacking Soboleva. I guess she is true to her media statements of the past re: Rawlinson and 4x400 fiasco.
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Postby peach » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:32 am

I think this is the thing...cause she is outspoken, they are going along the same old "Here goes Tamsyn again" line of thinking...though to be honest, I think she's absolutely got a point. Ok, it wasn't keeping her from an Olympic final but if I'd be pissed off if athletes ahead of me in major champs were testing positive...

The interesting point, is who did she think in the Olympic 800m final tested positive back in Sydney? Because I can't think of anyone from this list...

1. ML Mutola (Moz) 1:56.15
2. S Graf (Aut) 1:56.64
3. K Holmes (Gbr) 1:56.80
4. B Langerholc (Slo) 1:58.51
5. H Fuchsova (Cze) 1:58.56
6. Z Calatayud (Cub) 1:58.66
7. H Clark (USA) 1:58.75
8. HB Hassi (Mar) 1:59.27
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Postby peach » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:41 am

well of course, those are unsubstiantied rumours I couldn't possibly confirm or deny and I'm sure they'll be gone within a matter of moments but I repeat, Tamsyn Lewis stated in her interview she missed out on the final by 0.03 and found one of the girls "ahead of her" was on drugs.

As it was a fastest loser situation, that could mean any finalist, I guess, but still...
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Postby Matt » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:45 am

Didn't Hazel Clark have a warning for something or other? Pseudoephedrine? I can't say for sure.
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Postby lapsus » Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:04 am

EPelle wrote:
Tiago wrote:
EPelle wrote:Alifirenko had apparently been absent due to what officials thought was trouble with his eyes. Little known to them, it was due to a doping bust.


They knew he was doped.......

They:d denied foreknowledge according to live sending on Perviy Kanal 1 last evening.


If the doping bust really was because of a drug used to treat his eye trouble, it doesn't seem like this case is related to the others. I wouldn't use Alifirenko as proof of systematic doping.

The other cases, however...
:(
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Postby Tiago » Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:24 am

lapsus wrote:
EPelle wrote:
Tiago wrote:
EPelle wrote:Alifirenko had apparently been absent due to what officials thought was trouble with his eyes. Little known to them, it was due to a doping bust.


They knew he was doped.......

They:d denied foreknowledge according to live sending on Perviy Kanal 1 last evening.


If the doping bust really was because of a drug used to treat his eye trouble, it doesn't seem like this case is related to the others. I wouldn't use Alifirenko as proof of systematic doping.

The other cases, however...
:(


What cases?i only see athletics. :? ....Gusev run for Astana,case closed.
Alifirenko have the eye injurie to justify the use of the drug but and as far i remember this is the first time a russian shooter is tested positive.

Btw,Hardy has tested positive,so is the all usa swimming team doped? :?


Russia have a problem with the athletics,the rest are normal doping cases as in any other countrie.
Last edited by Tiago on Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby gh » Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:25 am

Matt wrote:Didn't Hazel Clark have a warning for something or other? Pseudoephedrine? I can't say for sure.


Yes, pseudo, which has subsequently been removed from the banned list (common in cold medications like Sudafed). Came off at the same time caffeine did.

Any lumping of people who fell afoul of cold-medication rules (before the WADAs got their heads together) with true druggies is very unfair.
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Postby EPelle » Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:28 am

Your english isn:t so bad that you were able to veer back on course following the admonishment you were earlier provided. Why you:ve gone back down this route again is known only to you.

ti hoces stobi tebia ot siuda vignali?
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Postby Jon » Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:31 am

peach wrote:who did she think in the Olympic 800m final tested positive back in Sydney? Because I can't think of anyone from this list...

1. ML Mutola (Moz) 1:56.15
2. S Graf (Aut) 1:56.64
3. K Holmes (Gbr) 1:56.80
4. B Langerholc (Slo) 1:58.51
5. H Fuchsova (Cze) 1:58.56
6. Z Calatayud (Cub) 1:58.66
7. H Clark (USA) 1:58.75
8. HB Hassi (Mar) 1:59.27
She may have been referring to Graf. She never tested positive, but many of her training partners have done (Ceplak, Pumper, etc). She's like the Shawn Crawford of the women's 800m :D
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Postby gh » Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:43 am

Flumpy & peach, with their latest (now excised) posts have confirmed that they don't want abide by the rules of the Board, so they have won a free one-week vacation away from the wars here.
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Postby lapsus » Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:06 am

Tiago wrote:
What cases?i only see athletics. :? ....Gusev run for Astana,case closed.
Alifirenko have the eye injurie to justify the use of the drug but and as far i remember this is the first time a russian shooter is tested positive.

Btw,Hardy has tested positive,so is the all usa swimming team doped? :?


Russia have a problem with the athletics,the rest are normal doping cases as in any other countrie.


I should have been more specific: I meant the 7 women athletes (+ the 3 walkers). The nature of the first bust was unusual in that they didn't all seem to be part of the same training group.

I don't mean it is state-sponsored doping; I don't want to kick Russia out of the games. But I would like to see some serious investigation of non-athletes involved in this. Reassign them to Siberia or something...
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Postby EPelle » Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:16 am

Siberia produces the Sharapova-types in the world ;-)
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Postby Matt » Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:13 am

Jon wrote:
peach wrote:who did she think in the Olympic 800m final tested positive back in Sydney? Because I can't think of anyone from this list...

1. ML Mutola (Moz) 1:56.15
2. S Graf (Aut) 1:56.64
3. K Holmes (Gbr) 1:56.80
4. B Langerholc (Slo) 1:58.51
5. H Fuchsova (Cze) 1:58.56
6. Z Calatayud (Cub) 1:58.66
7. H Clark (USA) 1:58.75
8. HB Hassi (Mar) 1:59.27
She may have been referring to Graf. She never tested positive, but many of her training partners have done (Ceplak, Pumper, etc). She's like the Shawn Crawford of the women's 800m :D


I've just had a disastrous morning. I stepped on a piece of glass in my kitchen and - guess what? My entire career is over. :P
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Postby Jon » Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:29 am

I hate when that happens... :P
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