more trouble in Russia


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more trouble in Russia

Postby Swoosher » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:01 am

French media reporting three positive doping tests from Russians...Borchin, Kanaikin, Voevodin. All walkers I think.

French are happy becuase it is less competitors for Diniz
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Postby EPelle » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:08 am

They also had a cyclist test positive. Sanctions may very well be on the way for the Russians.
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Postby Mennisco » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:11 am

So far no swimmers or those who race on their hands...
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Postby croflash » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:19 am

EPelle wrote:They also had a cyclist test positive. Sanctions may very well be on the way for the Russians.


You mean Vladimir Gusev ? He wasn't tested positive, he failed the intern control system of Astana.
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Postby peach » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:28 am

This is getting RIDICULOUS...how long before the whole team is banned ?
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Postby Mennisco » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:38 am

peach wrote:This is getting RIDICULOUS...how long before the whole team is banned ?


After a couple of raucous and amatory parties with a bunch of Americans.....PEDS is a sexually transmissible condition...
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Postby Powell » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:55 am

On a Polish forum, I've read a rumor about one other major Russian T&F athlete being suspended...
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Postby Mennisco » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:57 am

Proof that nascent Russian-style democracy is more efficient than whatever is operating in the United States.....
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Postby kamikaze7 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:28 am

It will not be possible to see a Russian winning in Beijing without wondering.............whether its cycling or boxing or any other sport.
Last edited by kamikaze7 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Brettboy » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:28 am

Steeple confirmed its Kanaykin and Borchin...both suspended
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Postby nevetsllim » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:42 am

Powell wrote:On a Polish forum, I've read a rumor about one other major Russian T&F athlete being suspended...


I think I have a feeling I know who you are talking about :(
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Postby noahnathan » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:46 am

Why the sad face, nevetslim? Are you a fan of the athlete or of russian athletics in general?
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Postby 26mi235 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:56 am

Brettboy wrote:Steeple confirmed its Kanaykin and Borchin...both suspended


With the other 7 having 'systematic' as a reasonable conclusion, adding three more starts to raise some real questions about the Russian federation. Many of these ten are at the top, as well. Has targeting testing gotten more sophisticated?
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Postby gh » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:03 am

Reuters has confirmed the story (now on front page).
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Postby 26mi235 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:06 am

Borchin had an ephedrine suspension prior to winning the champs in 2006 and will be banned long-term (I would presume) at the young age of 21. Also note that the story cited by gh has the Gusev 'test' referenced wrong (he did not fail a normal PEDs test but an internal control with anomalies).
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Postby Jaack » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:11 am

I am completely over the moon. From the moment I saw "7 suspended" I was hoping it was the 20k walkers who were in ridiculous form this year....Ireland's Robert Heffernan has worked so hard this year, and really didn't have a chance with the Russians in such amazing form. NOW.......

THRILLED>

How can anyone trust Russian results in Beijing. When they go 1,2,3 in the women's steeple, when they push the Americans in the 4x4, when their returning drug cheat, Kapachinskaya, reaches the podium....well, will anyone be happy?
Last edited by Jaack on Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby peach » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:16 am

Who is this other "rumoured" Russian ?

Someone PM me !
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Postby doug091463 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:32 am

nevetsllim wrote:
Powell wrote:On a Polish forum, I've read a rumor about one other major Russian T&F athlete being suspended...


I think I have a feeling I know who you are talking about :(


any hints, i had to edit this as i dont want the thread deleted, major russian star is a big hint and i think i have it down to 2.
Last edited by doug091463 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Mennisco » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:35 am

To paraphrase an American distance runner with a twin sister, "This goes beyond drugs."
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Postby Matt » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:50 am

Is it an OG gold medallist?
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Postby EPelle » Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:14 am

At this point it:s best to avoid speculating, as the athlete is likely anybody who runs on 10 toes and responds to the commands ready, set, go.
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Postby Powell » Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:23 am

Even if there were no forum guidelines to consider, I don't feel confident enough about the source to name the athlete here, or give clues which would make it possible to identify him/her.
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Postby #6 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:42 am

Is Victor Buraev that tested positive not Valery Borchin. :roll:
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Postby Daisy » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:22 am

26mi235 wrote:
Brettboy wrote:Steeple confirmed its Kanaykin and Borchin...both suspended


Has targeting testing gotten more sophisticated?


Targeting or testing? It seems to me that athletes have been giving clean samples of urine but it has not there own. Given this has gone undetected in the past it appears that the DNA testing is a relatively new addition to WADA's testing. I suspect the targeting has always been in place but now they have stumbled upon a test that reveals the systematic tampering of urine samples. It's reminiscent of getting Al Capone on tax evasion.

If this has been so successful for the Russians then i see no reason why athletes from other nations are not going to get caught. How long are urine samples usually stored after a drug test? My guess is that WADA will check back through all the stored samples they have to confirm if the urine DNA fingerprint matches with the athletes DNA fingerprint. This could be the tip of the ice berg.
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Postby 26mi235 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:26 am

I meant that they were targeting athletes that had suspicious characteristics on tests at one point in time or over time. For instance, there was comment that the urine was unusually clear. They could not issue a positive at that point, but they could look for things, like testing them again and comparing and getting DNA samples directly from the athletes for comparison.

I refer to this as intelligent targeting. Cycling has been doing this and played a role in nabbing Hamilton for blood doping four years ago.
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Postby Daisy » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:33 am

26mi235 wrote:For instance, there was comment that the urine was unusually clear.


So better targeting and testing. Another reason I read for WADA to target the Russians was that the testers found they were always available for random tests. Apparently this is unusual and that made them suspicious the athletes were being tipped off. But how would they know? The Russians have spies in WADA? Or the Russians monitor the border for known WADA testers? Either scenario would be really bad for the Russian Athletics Federation.
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Postby 26mi235 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:43 am

Daisy wrote:
26mi235 wrote:For instance, there was comment that the urine was unusually clear.


So better targeting and testing. Another reason I read for WADA to target the Russians was that the testers found they were always available for random tests. Apparently this is unusual and that made them suspicious the athletes were being tipped off. But how would they know? The Russians have spies in WADA? Or the Russians monitor the border for known WADA testers? Either scenario would be really bad for the Russian Athletics Federation.


I see little chance that this spat of results corresponds with a completely benign role of the federation or some subset of it. How long were the latest results known internally (Russia) and is that one reason why there was not an immediate appeal of the 'group of seven' this week? With rumors of one more big problem, it seems that there may be changes in the works. The current Russian government does not like to get their reputation spoiled.
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Postby EPelle » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:17 am

Ljungqvist says on record that the Russians are systematically doping:
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iVw ... zcCF2A9SGA
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Postby gh » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:41 am

Borchin's coach says he's not one of the positives. Story now on front page.
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Postby lapsus » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:47 am

gh wrote:Borchin's coach says he's not one of the positives. Story now on front page.


This one?
http://au.sports.yahoo.com/news/article ... sian-coach

I thought it said national team coach Maslakov denied EPO and Borchin's coach (trainer) Chegin confirmed the positive..

I'm getting quite confused here.
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Postby BruceFlorman » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:29 am

Daisy wrote:
26mi235 wrote:For instance, there was comment that the urine was unusually clear.

So better targeting and testing. Another reason I read for WADA to target the Russians was that the testers found they were always available for random tests. Apparently this is unusual and that made them suspicious the athletes were being tipped off. But how would they know? The Russians have spies in WADA? Or the Russians monitor the border for known WADA testers? Either scenario would be really bad for the Russian Athletics Federation.

One of the articles from the weekend quoted a WADA spokesman complaining about the fact that their inspectors needed visas to get into Russia. Now it's been a long time since I traveled anywhere that required a visa, so I don't recall what the procedures were then, and whatever they were, they may well have changed in the intervening quarter century. But is it not possible that some underpaid low-level bureaucrat working in the visa office figured out how to recognize the applications from WADA inspectors and decided to start a business on the side? This would, I suppose, constitute "systematic" doping, but it doesn't require a massive conspiracy within the All-Russian Athletics Federation.

As for all the folks expressing dismay about the reaction of the ARAF and Russian press – I wonder what the reaction of USATF and the American press would have been had something similar happened eight years ago. Imagine if ten days before the Sydney opening ceremony the IAAF had “temporarily suspended” Marion Jones, without any semblance of Due Process? I know that a huge number of the posters here now claim to have known all along that she was a cheat, but I imagine the reaction would’ve been pretty negative toward the IAAF/WADA if the tables were turned at that time.
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Postby gh » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:33 am

Nations which require visas have long been a problem for international testers. Suspicions that the minute the app is made, the sporting bodies are put on alert.
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Postby Tiago » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:53 am

Главный тренер легкоатлетической сборной России Валентин Маслаков опроверг появившуюся в СМИ информацию о том, что российский ходок на 20 километров Валерий Борчин пропустит Олимпиаду в Пекине из-за проблем с допингом.

- По состоянию на 14.30 по Москве во вторник Борчин остается в команде и готовится к старту в Пекине, - заявил Маслаков корреспонденту ТК «Спорт» Ольге Богословской. - Что касается ходока на 50 километров Владимира Канайкина, то мы его давно поменяли на Сергей Кирдяпкина.

Борчин отобрался в команду, заняв второе место на Кубке мира этого года, который проходил в Чебоксарах. Он является реальным претендентом на медали Олимпиады в Пекине.

Двумя часами позже эту информацию подтвердил президент ВФЛА Валентин Балахничев. "Сообщения об отстранении Борчина не соответствуют действительности", - заявил он по телефону корреспонденту ТК "Спорт".

The great and unique Valentin Maslakov. 8-) 8-) :lol:

So Borchin will go the olympics and kanaykin had been already replace by Kidryapkina....so no problem for Russia.

Balakhnichev confirms.

Voyevodin is not in the olympic team.
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Re: more trouble in Russia

Postby Tiago » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:59 am

Swoosher wrote:French media reporting three positive doping tests from Russians...Borchin, Kanaikin, Voevodin. All walkers I think.

French are happy becuase it is less competitors for Diniz


Stupid french media,kanaikin and voevodin were not in the olympic team....... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Kanaikin had already been replaced by Krypyakin.

The russians knew that Kanaikin was doped.

Russian athletics survives for another day, 8-)
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Postby Tiago » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:04 am

Russia team for Beijing announce on 22 july

20 км/х
Валерий Борчин

Илья Марков

Сергей Морозов

50 км/х
Игорь Ерохин

Сергей Кирдяпкин

Денис Нижегородов

Athletes who test positive,annouce today:

Владимира Канайкина, Алексея Воеводина и Виктора Бураева


I hope people here have the all picute now.


The russia federation knew this athletes might fail the doping test so they were not include in the team.

Good work by Balakhnichev. :D :D
Last edited by Tiago on Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby 26mi235 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:05 am

The comments by the IOC guy are surprisingly frank and it is unlikely that there is just a little mix up; this is a major battle. See the Front Page, a must-read on this topic. I wonder if Russia is risking it all; getting booted entirely is a major step and the tone of the IOC (a medical guy, as well) and ex-IAAF is strong.


Another example of target testing was announced today. In Cycling, the winner of the climber's jersey in the Giro (contested in May) recently test positive for CERA in an Out-of-Comp test:

...Italian Emanuele Sella, has been found positive in an out-of-competition doping control issued by the UCI on July 23... [he] was found to have used the same third generation EPO – CERA – that Riccardo Riccò admitted to using in the Tour de France.

"It was targeted control," said UCI President Pat McQuaid to Cyclingnews. "The control was done on the July 23 and we sent the samples to Paris for testing." McQuaid noted that Sella had been targeted based on his actions in and out of racing. "It was a highly targeted out-of-competition test. We are using a range of information to target riders."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/aug08/aug06news
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Postby kamikaze7 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:07 am

Systematic doping in Russia transcends T&F. I am glad the IOC is picking up on it. Stronger measures must be taken against Russia. Circumstantial evidence must now be used by international bodies. Drug tests are no longer going to work. It must be considered on a case by case basis and Russia warrants more scrutiny.
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Postby Tiago » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:11 am

kamikaze7 wrote:Systematic doping in Russia transcends T&F. I am glad the IOC is picking up on it. Stronger measures must be taken against Russia. Circumstantial evidence must now be used by international bodies. Drug tests are no longer going to work. It must be considered on a case by case basis and Russia warrants more scrutiny.


That athletes are not in the olympic team,never were and never intended to be.

The russia athletic federation actly correct in this one.
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Postby Tiago » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:15 am

EPelle wrote:They also had a cyclist test positive. Sanctions may very well be on the way for the Russians.


:?

Maybe i am sounding the lawyer of the russians here but Gusev never tested positive. :wink:
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Re: more trouble in Russia

Postby Jaack » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:25 am

Tiago wrote:
Russian athletics survives for another day, 8-)
You must be so proud.
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