Stephen wrote:In fact, I'f I'm being perfectly honest, I still think the Russian team have an organised doping regime, and this kind of backs that up.
Again, I agree. These athletes are from different events with different coaches, yet they all have something funky going on with their DNA testing. They must be getting the same 'instructions' from somewhere.
Whatever little hope I had in the Russian team has now been lost completely.
I was just searching to see if they had the same coach...this absolutely STINKS of an organised doping system. Can we trust any of Russia's leading athletes? As much as I have believed quite a high amount of Russian gals were doped, I could still manage to support some members of their team like Soboleva, Guschina, Tomashova. But the fact that these 6 names, pretty much represent the entire team, well....how can anyone have faith in the rest? Samitova? Kapachinskaya? Volkova?
It's going to be tough watching a Russian Gal beat out a personal favourite in Beijing.
That said, I live by the mantra that Isi can't be on anything, nor would it help!
Last edited by Jaack on Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Odd timing to let the cat out of the bag. Like many of you, can't say I'm surprised, but this seems like a new dimension. Could there be several new tests to discover PEDs before the Olympics ?
Me neither - the deep grunt she let out when she threw, her facial acne, and rapid progression were all small hints [/quote]
I agree with you on the first two, but the latter isn't too much of an issue- rapid progression at a young age isn't really that much of a giveaway and she's still only 23...
And this absolutely does stink- do they have different coaches ? You'd have thought so...
none of this suprises in the slightest you hope for the best and it's easy to see why russia would have great athletes. i'm an grateful that this has come out 3 weeks b4 track starts at OG and also interested that it only seems to be russian women involved in a nearly all RUS +
IAAF report interesting - their previous samples had deliberately been stored for re-analysis.I knew that certain athletes were being targeted by the IAAF so this is actually a great step.
Now that prodigious, amazing, barrier breaking and immensely talented junior, Pamela Jelimo, can win the 800m now that drugs cheat Sobo is out.
Well, if they have certain athletes on the radar it would also mean that more might be coming before or during the Olympics. I'm sure they are/were not only targeting Russian athletes.
Jaack wrote:I was just searching to see if they had the same coach...this absolutely STINKS of an organised doping system. Can we trust any of Russia's leading athletes?
As far as I know, the w800 and w1500 runners do not share the same coach, which makes this (to me) more surprising. I think EPelle best summarized my alarm above:
I was wondering why now. Reading the IAAF statement, it does seem that it was a year long investigation into sample manipulation. The mechanics of the manipulation still confuse me though - one person's urine for everybody over a period of time? Still, it's better to come out now rather than in 2 weeks' time.
Could be a dumb question, but is it too late for the Russian federatiaon to name new people, or bring in the alternates? Or you think the Russians will just not field anyone in those events?
Is there a cut off date of declared athletes for visas, etc?
Hayley Tullett, world champion!!! No wonder she quit early, would be easy to be disillusioned, how would she have progressed in her career if she had been given the title we now know is her's.
Oh Tomashova, how I wanted you to be clean down the years as I came to respect your racing and consistency. How I tried to overlook that you were part of the Yego breakthrough and almost had a replica career. How happy I was to see you beat the odious Ayhan. I understand now their step down from 5k to 1500, once the EPO got caught they needed to find a new trick. So obvious, why didn't I see it.
Soboleva, where do we start. The innocent look and sob story. And that blonde hair, the beauty, it was so mcuh easier to condemn Yegorova who looked like a rat. Lesson to be learnt, doping transcends beauty.
There are clearly scores of others on their way down. Loads of them will tank in Beijing. It is no coincidence that those who have gone down are the frequent racers which has given IAAF the opportunity to track their samples. Look at A B C and D (names withdrawn) on the other hand who were out of the frame last year and so progressive analysis will have been pretty tough to implement.
There is only one way to deal with this! I know it will be harsh, but the entire Russian team needs to be thrown out of the Games. I don't think doping in blanket, Isinbeyeva is pretty much disassociated from the Russian regime, I pray for Lebedyeva. However doping is systemic in Russia, it transcends coaches, events and training groups and the only way to make the Federation do anything about it is to take strong affirmative action.
I think the best we can hope for is that we know every single Russian in Beijing is going to be tested and have their samples stored for good. I expect to see a book full of DNQs from all but their biggest stars.
GO IAAF - finally showing some teeth. Now get the E (name withdrawn) woman for us before she goes and spoils the whole games for me, again!
This is unabated good news, fortunately even Soboleva is not on the tongues of the general public unlike Marion Jones and some Eastern European drug bust is hardly gonna shock Joe Public.
Interestingly, the women's 1500m ends up historically looking pretty much as dirty if not dirtier than any other event. Thank goodness for Kelly!
Oh my goodness, terrible thought, do I even trust Masterkova any more? One of my all time favourites, was just watching her 1996 runs on youtube last week, but the patterns is worryingly similar.
BTW I would like to see maternity testing brought in for Russian athletes so that when we here they are pregnant we can actually ascertain whether they really have given birth as I don't like the habit of their athletes disappearing for tears and coming back in wonder shape.
Last edited by mark on Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
Mark, I think we can safely say our sport is probably as dirty as it ever was.
The top US sprinters all going down (Gatlin, Montgomery, Jones, Gaines, White etc) these Russian positives, the revelation that Nesterenko failed a test years ago, all the come backs from throwers that have failed tests (Sadova, Fazekas etc)...not to mention random 'juniors' lighting up the tracks from outta nowhere, lack of testing in the caribbean....
Me neither - the deep grunt she let out when she threw, her facial acne, and rapid progression were all small hints
I agree with you on the first two, but the latter isn't too much of an issue- rapid progression at a young age isn't really that much of a giveaway and she's still only 23...[/quote]
I thought she was the first exciting new talent in a long time in an event which has been pretty much dead in recent years. I don't like the idea of the event being dominated by women in their late 30s and even 40s.
Powell wrote: I thought she was the first exciting new talent in a long time in an event which has been pretty much dead in recent years. I don't like the idea of the event being dominated by women in their late 30s and even 40s.
TBH I never thought she was a natural exciting talent, but exciting talent, yes.
The event does lend itself to older competitors: the years of competitive experience, the polished technique, the kind of strength needed not being the same as some of the more dynamic events etc.... but I agree, I dont like the fact that most of the throws are dominated by older athletes, and ones who have failed tests at some point in their career too!
Earlier this year I read that Dietzsh's coach was being hounded by the DLV, and there were suggestions that he wouldnt be allowed to travel with the official team to Beijing, because of past 'misdemours'. Franka flatly refused to go to the Games if her coach wasnt there too. The DLV then automatically selected her Beijing, but she subsequently pulled out because of 'lack of form'. I did wonder if it had anything to do with her coach being pursued....2 + 2 doesnt always make 4, and I do like Franka, but it did leave a slightly bitter taste in my mouth, and we all know about guilt by association.
Stephen, call me optimistic I hope this may be a turning point, I really do. So many years I have been waiting for something big to happen out East, too many too good athletes in concentration of female events. Basic steroids have become too primitive and easy to spot.
Whatever we eventually learn (and that will probably be very little) about the regimes used by these offenders will probably show that there will always be something now that the labs will churn out. However, what we also see is the international federation starting to work off hunches and track suspicious athletes. It somewhat offends my ideologies, but I have to confess to a sentiment of its about time!
Can we trust any of Russia's leading athletes? As much as I have believed quite a high amount of Russian gals were doped, I could still manage to support some members of their team like Soboleva, Guschina, Tomashova. But the fact that these 6 names, pretty much represent the entire team, well....how can anyone have faith in the rest? Samitova? Kapachinskaya? Volkova?
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