A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (Locked down several times a year during the major championships)
We've discussed the impact of the next new Big Thing in PEDs - bioengineering - and an article linked on the home page says its time has come.
Startling new evidence of a burgeoning underground doping culture in China emerged last night as a hospital doctor said that he was prepared to give illegal performance-enhancing gene therapy treatment to an Olympic swimmer
This is indeed the beginning of the end for our sport - as we know it - as the playing field will be STEEPLY downhill (in both senses of the word) for anyone who can have their body genetically manipulated to perform beyond normal human capacity. I predict that 100 years from now, this will be legal, in a regulated sort of way (good luck with that!), and the standards of performance will rise dramatically. Pego's mythical 8'2 High Jump will not get you through the qualifying rounds of a Global Championship.
Marlow wrote:We've discussed the impact of the next new Big Thing in PEDs - bioengineering - and an article linked on the home page says its time has come.
Startling new evidence of a burgeoning underground doping culture in China emerged last night as a hospital doctor said that he was prepared to give illegal performance-enhancing gene therapy treatment to an Olympic swimmer
This is indeed the beginning of the end for our sport - as we know it - as the playing field will be STEEPLY downhill (in both senses of the word) for anyone who can have their body genetically manipulated to perform beyond normal human capacity. I predict that 100 years from now, this will be legal, in a regulated sort of way (good luck with that!), and the standards of performance will rise dramatically. Pego's mythical 8'2 High Jump will not get you through the qualifying rounds of a Global Championship.
Marlow wrote:We've discussed the impact of the next new Big Thing in PEDs - bioengineering - and an article linked on the home page says its time has come.
Startling new evidence of a burgeoning underground doping culture in China emerged last night as a hospital doctor said that he was prepared to give illegal performance-enhancing gene therapy treatment to an Olympic swimmer
Mmm, so he's prepared to give it but has not? Sounds like typical bluster to me. Tell me when he has given it AND it makes the athlete performer better rather than keeling over.
Bio-engineering suggests more specific, more targeted 'goals'. Chemicals seem more random. If your goal is to increase muscle mass, I would think (but you're the scientist, not I) that one could do something more tailored to the desired goal by messing with specific genes.
Genetic manipulation IS going to happen (it's already started on a rudimentary level), and yes, there's going to be mistakes along the way, but sooner or later (my WAG is in 25 years) medicine will begin 'curing' people by manipulating their genes, not just dosing them with meds. When that happens, athletes will be right there in line for 'treatment'. It is inevitable.
You are a squeamish one, aren't you? That was a naturally occurring mutation - why does entertaining thoughts of athletic freaks apparently not bother you nearly so much?
Marlow wrote:Way to go, Mennisco!! Now look what you've done! Enticed erstwhile respectable poster, tandfman, to wallow in your depravities with you!!!
Bio-engineering suggests more specific, more targeted 'goals'. Chemicals seem more random. If your goal is to increase muscle mass, I would think (but you're the scientist, not I) that one could do something more tailored to the desired goal by messing with specific genes.
Not only can chemicals be specific they can also be titrated to the correct dose. Genetic engineering is far harder to manipulate and more likely to fail. To get the optimal level of extra gene expression is luck rather than controlable and is as likely to be too low or too high than just right. You are more likely to make a detrimental mutations than to get the desired change.
Marlow wrote:Genetic manipulation IS going to happen (it's already started on a rudimentary level), and yes, there's going to be mistakes along the way, but sooner or later (my WAG is in 25 years) medicine will begin 'curing' people by manipulating their genes, not just dosing them with meds. When that happens, athletes will be right there in line for 'treatment'. It is inevitable.
They might be in line for treatment but they will not get the benefits you claim. The chemists will win over the athletes with superior results and undetectable small molecules.
Daisy wrote:They might be in line for treatment but they will not get the benefits you claim. The chemists will win over the athletes with superior results and undetectable small molecules.
Ima gonna hafta take your word for it, cuz I am seriously overmatched in the scientific department, Dr. Daisy!!
"In addition, the sensationalized story was on MSNBC, but it’s really an AP story. If you are mad about the AP story, you should be angry at the writer/editor of the story, and not “western” media. Always differentiate who really is responsible, unless you want to fall into the same trap the first article did by blaming China for the actions of one man."
“It is very scary that health professionals should have such a lack of ethics and try what we know to be experimental on human beings for a vast amount of money,”
"Patrick Diel, a gene therapy expert at the Deutsche Sporthochschule in Cologne and WADA officer, expressed astonishment that such performance enhancements were so readily available. “I find this shocking,” Diel said. “It carries enormous health risks. Quite frankly, this surpasses my worst fears.” Diel and other German experts also said there was no evidence that stem-cell injections would work as a doping treatment."[so why is he attributed with calling them performance enhancements?]
"The film provides evidence that drug companies are willing to flout Government orders to 'keep China doping-free before the Games' by selling steroids that never passed full clinical and pharmaceutical trials and EPO at prices that undercut western competition by a massive margin: in the case of one steroid, 100g was sold for 150 euros when the price in Europe would have been more than 6,000 euros, according to experts."
Daisy wrote:Not only can chemicals be specific they can also be titrated to the correct dose. Genetic engineering is far harder to manipulate and more likely to fail. To get the optimal level of extra gene expression is luck rather than controlable and is as likely to be too low or too high than just right. You are more likely to make a detrimental mutations than to get the desired change.
As of today, likely to change "slightly" during this millenium.
Which bit are you referring to? All I see is that athletes want to use it. Nowhere in the article does it say it will work.
I'm sure the athletes want to use a star trek like teleporter to save having to use commerical flights. It does not mean it can be done.
Daisy - even though you know 14,000 times as much as I do about this stuff, I still think you GROSSLY underestimate the time it will take to get genetic engineering out of the lab and into people's bodies, in a way that can enhance their 'natural gifts'. Sure there will be dangers, but since when has that ever stopped someone from trying?
Which bit are you referring to? All I see is that athletes want to use it. Nowhere in the article does it say it will work.
I'm sure the athletes want to use a star trek like teleporter to save having to use commerical flights. It does not mean it can be done.
Daisy - even though you know 14,000 times as much as I do about this stuff, I still think you GROSSLY underestimate the time it will take to get genetic engineering out of the lab and into people's bodies, in a way that can enhance their 'natural gifts'. Sure there will be dangers, but since when has that ever stopped someone from trying?
I don't underestimate the time in which it can be done. It will be done. What i question is whether the result will be an elite athlete. For every lab rat successfully engineered there are hundreds of failures.
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