Almost makes one feel sympathy for Chambers:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympic ... 517713.stm
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Thanou
52 posts
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There is a wrinkle -- she declined to come before the IOC to defend herself and turned in her credentials instead. Those credentials are still 'turned in' and she is going to have to go in front of the IOC to get them back. She is probably not going to do it and they are not going to make it easy.
How do you feel about convicted dopers, Torrie Edwards and Damu Cherry being on the US team?!
I would be in favor of stricter penalties for doping of serious nature, i.e. hormones, epo, etc. and lifetime OG bans are not unreasonable. I don't recall what Torri did, but my recollection is that hers was of a "lighter" nature and thus she should be ok. However, what now is a 2-year ban is a serious violation.
What it says- that I personally don't WANT her in the Olympics, but I can't see how they can refuse...it's ridiculous when others are allowed, same as I thought about Chambers. However, I didn't know that about the accreditation thing... As for Cherry , I feel the same way I do about Thanou... Edwards less so. Whatever your opinion about her (and I know there are a few on here who don't believe for a minute she is clean), the whole nikethamide (sp?) was downgraded just after her ban and is no longer a 2 year punishment...
Your flawed indictment of Torrie gets a little tiresome/boring - it was a secondary infraction (although it took IAAF/WADA awhile to go from evidence to action in reducing the categorization) and why exactly would she be wanting a light (at most) advantage in an early-season meet of no consequence? In my mind Cherry is a different kettle of fish and is not high on my list of athletes I admire. I was disappointed so see athletes like Powell not on the team while she made it.
And why don't you read, my dear boy...I actually have no issue with Torri Edwards whatsoever, I said that many people on this board do. Whatever you believe, the facts show she tested positive for something which is now considered a "minor" stimulant- I have no problem with her competing in the games at all...
It is like a driver with a DUI that refuses to take a breath test. Some of those involved are already convicted of crimes, hers has just been put off 'n' times. Since she did not appear she gave up her credential for the Games and does not have one yet.
I'm just pointing out what I feel is a strong US bias in these doping conversations.
You guys are always given the benefit of the doubt or citing some excuse, exception for the US athletes; while non-US athletes are seemingly always guilty. Play fair guys.
Re: Thanou
well, add the christine ohurogu situation (same offense as ms. thanou and same olympic association as mr. chambers) and surely you must be devasted for mr. chambers. will be interesting to see the british reaction when ms. ohurogu wins the 400m in beijing.
Re: Thanou
Incorrect...Thanou was convicted of "avoiding" tests Ohuruogo was convicted of "missing" tests and the authorities went to the trouble of saying there was no suggestion this was done intentionally or that she was on drugs. Entirely different matter
Re: Thanou
You have to stretch the comparison a lot to call it the same.
\ I think quite the opposite. Conte just came out in an article saying he thinks Caribbean runners are doping but no one is ranting and raving about it...it's just written off as him trying to bring the whole sport down after being caught. Typically, in my experience, US athletes are guilty until proven innocent since Marion, Tim, Gatlin, etc. (and to some degree I understand the sentiment). I don't think its a bias about US athletes...at least not to the degree your claiming. If anything, I think the U.S. athletes face more scrutiny because many of their top stars of yesteryear have been found guilty and thus, anyone who does something mind boggling is looked at with a cautious eye from the world. As for Torri, that is pretty cut and dry. It was a case of negligent use, she served her time without denial and the rule was later changed. What's tough about that one? I think non-U.S. athletes get the benefit of the doubt more than a U.S. athlete in most cases. Last edited by texas_speed on Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A motorcycle, to fake a crash whilst avoiding taking a drug test that she knew she would fail as she was taking vast amounts of PED's along with her training partner and convicted drug peddling coach.
Pure conjecture!
Re: Thanou
the punishment is the same, whether the offense is avoiding or missing the tests. just don't be surprised if john q. public doesn't get your subtle distinction if ms. ohurogu beats one of the heavily hyped u.s. stars of the games.
Re: Thanou
really?
Certainly the US and European athletes go through more scrutiny than the Caribbean athletes - that is not my point (and we can't rant and rave about drug use by athletes that haven't been caught on this board -that's against the rules). But there is (in my opinion) a double standard against non-US athletes on this board when it comes to doping discussions. For example it was never mentioned on this forum once when Damu Cherry qualified for the Olympic team that she is a convicted drug cheat. Nobody mentioned a concern that she is getting a chance to compete at the Olympics. But plenty of comments about Nesterenko and Thanou and Chambers and other Europeans returning to the Olympics. When we starting talking about the 80s, everyone jumps on the Eastern Europeans, but FloJo and her teammates are generally excluded from that kind of discussion. If a non-American comes out of nowhere or back from the dead with a great time - it's suspicious. If it's an American - it's awesome. You mention Americans are considered guilty until proven innocent, but I have not heard a suspicious word about Tyson Gay ever. Can't say the same about Asafa Powell. As far as Gatlin and Jones and concerned, guys were defending those two vehemently right up until they said they were guilty. I know because I remember arguing with them right here on this board. I am not saying that Thanou or others aren't guilty, I am just saying let's not be so naive as to think US athletes don't have their fair share of guilty athletes too. Of course I am not talking about everyone on this board, but definitely a lot of people have this attitude.
Re: Thanou
Tell me how training in Chicago, when you should be in a completely different country, is different to being at a different track due to your normal one being in use by an unanticipated event?
Re: Thanou
that is the point -- the rules do not recognize a difference. and there is a reason the rules provide for a suspension after 3 (not one or two) missed tests no matter the excuse.
Re: Thanou
So you don't see the difference AND the rules don't see a difference?
they were suspended for the same offense -- 3 missed tests. the only difference is that there is extraneous evidence suggesting that ms. thanou evaded the tests in order to escape an otherwsie inevitable positive test and no such evidence has come to light in ms. ohurougu's case. i choose not to believe ms. ohuroughu's explanation, however.
it just seems odd that mr. chambers is villified for attempting to overturn his olympic ban while ms. ohurougu is cheered for having succesfully overturned hers.
You don't see any difference in the manner that the evasion took place? The whole point here is you seem to think everyone should be viewed the same on their return. Why would any logical person do that given that one athlete was hop-scotching around the world trying to avoid testers and the other was not? That you choose to think they are similar is your choice but don't sound so surprised when others disagree.
Not by me, i said i think he should run.
A number of people have commented on this over the last two years; relief that she did not get in last year, disappointment that she did this year (see my post, for instance, where I respond to Torri and Damu as very different cases). As for the British purist on doping who post often on that topic, I do not want to hear it unless you apply it to O, otherwise it is just ...
I honestly fail to understand how people can't see the difference between the Ohuruogo case and that of the recent American positives, Chambers and Thanou...
I fully supported Christine's ban- she deserved it entirely- but to say it's in the same league really is ludicrous. It just doesn't fit the facts and anyone saying otherwise really is talking utter rubbish And that's not from a "British purist" point of view, I'd quite happily have the same view if the same facts had been revealed about an American athlete, hell, even a Greek. Purposeful test evasion is NOT the same thing as the admittedly stupid situation the Big O found herself in...
You fail to acknowledge a key difference. Thanou missed three of IAAF/WADA's tests. Ohuruogu missed three of UK Sport's tests. National governing bodies test far more frequently than IAAF/WADA (or at least they do in the UK - unfortunately it's not the same in every country), so it is easier to miss three tests within an 18-month period. Relatively speaking, the IAAF/WADA tests don't come up as often, so it is quite difficult to actually miss three tests within a short period of time. By some freak incident (I heard a motorcycle was involved), Thanou and KK managed to do exactly that. There is plenty of other evidence showing that they were going out of their way to avoid being tested - hence why they received a ban. Ohuruogu, on the other hand, was tested many times during that 18-month period. When you get tested so often, it is almost inevitable that you will miss a test at some point (dozens of British athletes have - that's the downside of being tested so often). There was no evidence whatsoever that Ohuruogu was purposely evading tests - if there was, then she would have been banned for two years. When the testers came knocking for KK/Thanou, they were in a different country. When the testers came knocking for Ohuruogu, she was 20 minutes around the corner (but the flaws in the testing system did not allow the tester to contact and/or meet with Ohuruogu, which would have prevented the missed tests). I still can't believe some people (especially 26mi235) cannot differentiate between the two cases. There is about as much similarity between Thanou and Ohuruogu as there is between a kettle and a rabbit.
Does anyone know if KK and Thanou were tested at all during the time frame that they missed the tests? Or were the three missed tests the only time that the IAAF tried to test them during that time?
52 posts
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