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Women to compete in decathlon?Women to compete in decathlon?
I guess this is the last hurdle yet to fall for "gender equity" in track and field. I think the women now compete in every event that the men compete in, except for decathlon. Anybody see women competing in decathlon in the near future?
Women have been competing in decathlons for years. In WA the high school girls started in 2001.
Re: Women to compete in decathlon?
100m hurdles? 50km race walk?
Re: Women to compete in decathlon?
I asked Zarnowski this a few weeks ago and he said the change from hep to deca for women has been shelved.
Re: Women to compete in decathlon?
That is sad news indeed. Why? I think it would add a lot of pizzazz* to T&F. * no sooner had I written that word then I KNEW I had to know its etmology - this is what I found: "The OED’s first published reference is from Harper’s Bazaar in 1937, the year Vreeland arrived at the magazine as a columnist. Here's the citation: “Pizazz, to quote the editor of the Harvard Lampoon, is an indefinable dynamic quality, the je ne sais quoi of function; as for instance, adding Scotch puts pizazz in a drink.” "
I don't want to wax too strongly in an area where I don't have a lot of knowledge, but it has been my understanding that the biggest barrier to the switch has been powerful European coaches. Their main concern (again, as I understand it) is the learning curve w/ the vault.
But there may be more to it than that.
If that is true, isn't it the same learning curve for everyone? A good coach would welcome the change, as it would represent in increase in the need for technical proficiency, which is where coaches make the biggest difference.
This represents a sexist attitude. There is not a shred of honor in any of the reasons given for no women's decathlon. Once the women's vault was ratified, the decathlon should have followed directly. It didn't. People don't think women can handle the grueling 10 events. Personally, I think it's one of the more embarrassing truths of our sport.
I wonder if has more to do with making the current heptathletes irrelevant? Most think that they could transition to the dec but that may not be the case.
The decathlon really should be introduced soon, it's ridiculous. The iAAF really needs to set a plan, introducing it at the junior level, or as an unofficial event as they did with the TJ , or maybe hold an invitational meet outside champs for a couple of years. They have to do something.
They should also take the opportunity to re do the scoring tables when they do. The heptathlon scoring unfairly favours the sprinter/Jumpers, with the shot and JT being the lowest points scoring events. There have been various papers published looking at a fairer points scoring system which displays uniform characteristics over all events. If done this way it interestingly has athletes like Turchinskaya, Shouaa, Braun and Jane Frederick further up the performance list than they are now - in two of three alternative models published by a Dutch University research paper, Turchinskaya has the higesht score of all time. Considering the decathlon has 3 sprint events, 3 jumps events, 3 throws and 1 endurance, they need to ensure the throws are fairly weighted. Women like Skujyte and Schwarzkopf who are way over 50m in the JT really do suffer in the points scoring.
This seems perfectly understandable to me. A coach should be concerned about their athlete, first-and-foremost, not any satisfaction teaching a new event gives them.
If you had an athlete who was in the top 20 in the world, would you want to risk that ranking, and the possibility of moving up, by introducing an event that is very complex to learn? Never mind the athletes at the very top. And, to learn it properly you'd have to focus on it at the detriment of the others. Just because these athletes are fantastic talents doesn't mean success at the PV is guaranteed, look at Sotherton in the javelin. If I coached a world class heptathlete I'd vote against it...
It is perfectly understandable and, at the same time, a reason why they should not listen to them - they have a vested interest in the status quo that need not be shared by the sport at large. Of course, the suggestion that it be brought in on a timetable, possibly with the juniors first. However, I see the decathlon having its biggest barrier at the junior level, as it takes time to learn the standard seven events and the new events and so the juniors will not be very good at it throughout their junior career. For evidence of this, of course, you can look at how HS students have fared in the Olympic Decathlon.... 
We all know that PV is the hardest event
and that is why the women, coaches, etc are scared of it, but I bet discus would be pretty tough to learn as well.
Like I posted earlier; there is no reason given with any shred of honor.
But isn't that the height of being self-absorbed? "If it's not good for ME, it shouldn't happen." T&F purports itself to be non-sexist, but this and the 50W absence proves otherwise. (the 100H vs. 110H issue is irrelevant; women's strides are shorter on average, deal with it!  )
Drawing on what other bright people said earlier (Stephen about points, throws being underrepresented; Cooter about making current people irrelevant), let's stop and think about the practical aspects of a change.
With the addition of another throw, and a jump that requires more upper body strength than previoiusly required, I would posit that the ideal somatotype is going to change a bit. And I don't necessarily mean the one you were born with; how you shape your body. Currently, male decathletes look nothing if not powerful. Many successful heptathletes, on the other hand, can get away with being "wispy." So if we posit that a switch to the decathlon will mean a need to go in the "stronger" direction, that means changing your body type and making yourself less well-suited to the current event. So let's say a change is planned for the 2012 Olympics. That means you better start changing your body a year or two in advance, so you have to compromise your chances for the '11 Worlds (and maybe '10 Euros/Commonwealth). On a related note, many heptathletes struggle, I'm sure, to find enough time to train adequately for 7 events. Training for 10 makes a bigger demand. Yes, it's a demand that the men handle, but it's already part of your program. If '12 is a decathlon, how much of your incredibly valuable '10 and '11 time do you set aside to practice events that you don't need? You'd have to compromise your chances for those other years in that regard too. If all that makes sense, then this is just a tad more complicated than it seems on the surface.
Well that settles it then. No women's decathlon. Seriously Gary, there are logistical nightmares inherent to all major changes. That should never dictate whether or not the changes should be made. I'm kind of put of by your narrow minded view of this. I'd like you to work on your visionary skills. Are we or are we not looking for the world's greatest female athlete? If we are, then improving our criteria to better reflect the end goal should be the engine driving the train.
I guess this is another example of the different ways we can read and interpret other people's expressions, but I didn't see any argument from gh that changing to the decathlon should not occur. Nor could I identify any narrow-mindedness. Rather, his post seems to express in fact a vision of what an athlete's hept to deca transition would look like, and what sorts of changes it would take over an extended period of time, and what that would mean for possible intermediate (ie, between this OG and the next OG) goals -- all of that would be complicated for the athlete making that transition. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, as I read it. Interesting thread, thanks to those who have posted.
Not to speak for gh, but it appears to me he's just laying out some of the complexities in the change that may affect the mindset of the powers-that-be and not necessarily shilling for the no-deca side.
Edit: LIke Master Po said.
decafan misreads me completely: I'm loudly in favor of the women's dec and have been for DECades.
I was putting my apparently deficient visionary skills to work here to try to explain the nuts & bolts of why the change is difficult. You can't fix a problem until you really know what the problem is, and in this case it's not just a simple matter of saying, "hey, we got a new event for you."
i think you just announce it's going to be Deca from say 2016. it gives people advance waring and you can introduce it at smaller events before. there is no excuse in this day ans age for different events for men and women.
and while they're at it they can have equal distances at XC
Decafan, a question for you. Would you be in favor of the deca identical to that of men, or modified (100H, 800)?
Nope. I didn't misread anything. I get very frustrated when people who say they're in favor of big ideas or major changes don't jump over the obvious complications and problems and move on to solution-based comments and ideas. Don't tell me why it might not work. Tell my how it can work.
Re: Women to compete in decathlon?
Decathlon with 2'6" 110 hurdles = last hurdle cleared for gender equity.. 
To me, that's it in a nutshell. Most people are averse to change, but that doesn't mean that change isn't good. And this isn't change for change's sake; It's to move women into the 20th (i.e., last) century in terms of equality. We could come up with all sorts of reasons and rationalizations why it's too hard to do, but since it's the 'right' thing to do, those arguments are reactionary, not progressive. There should obviously be Fair Warning, but now is the time to do it. The 2012 OG might indeed be 'too early', but 2016 is certainly NOT. I'd shoot for the 2015 WC.
I know you meant that tongue-in-cheek, but that is not equality. The 16 lb-er for women would require much less technique and far more brute strength than the men's event.
Im as serious as a heart attack and you are nothin but a sexist pig! Mojo, help me out here.
Yeah, hide behind mojo's skirts. C'mon out, you girlie-man (who invented that phrase? ). Bring it, baby! 
Mojo can not help you out as she can barley lift that damn thing. 
I like the idea of bringing the Dec in at a future date-like 2016 and phasing it in with the Juniors first. I AM glad it was the pentathlon when I competed. 8) 
Hilarious now to think how easy it was and yet how the word "gruelling" was often adjective used to describe it. LOL. Sorry Squack-I am a sexist sow. 
maybe USA Prez Hillary can get us sensible health insurance AND a decathlon for women....
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