We here at the NCAA are working to ban the California state meet because it promotes--i can hardly say the word--competition.
Our plan is that each of the 14 million high school kids in California will get their own division and run their own race and evrybody can be champion! Imagine the glory for the coaching community--every school's coach can claim a coupla hundred state champs! What a resume-builder!
>Private schools can get kids from wherever, but
>public schools can't. Besides, it's the public
>schools that dominate track anyway.
Sure, and Long Beach Poly's teams use neighborhood kids, if the neighborhood is all of SoCal. States with muitiple classes recognize that the the differences between mega-schools with 4,000+ students and rural schools with less than a 100 don't make for fair competition. Facilities, coaching, budget, travel all play a part. Californis can keep their simple solution to a complex question.
Yet you forget that Allyson Felix comes from a small school! L.A. Baptist has no more than 600 students. So a tiny school CAN produce a top athlete. I like that California has one champion for one state. No coddling to parents & coaches, who want to make it easier for THEIR kid to hold up a phony title. When you're California champ, you are TRULY the state champ.
"I'm NOT totally aware of the qualifying details, BUT the main point of interest is PHILADELPHIA is an OPEN SCHOOL district. Any student, anywhere can apply go to any school anywhere within the CITY."
PIAA schools from suburban and rural schools in Pennsylvania are open to kids from other districts for an out-of-district fee which, although I don't the figure, is far from prohibitive. Which means the entire system is open to abuse, or free-choice--however you choose to view it.
yeah i think thats kinda tyte. texas should do somethin like that. i think it would be real nice to see all the class 1A through 5A race and crown one winner. i would have loved to race a couple of the guys who were fast and were at the state meet in 98. but we wasnt i the same class.
The kids have to run a lot more races to make the state finals. What they call the "State Meet" in Texas is the equivalent of the "Sectionals" in CA. For instance, the So. Cal CIF has its 1-A, 2-A, etc. championships, and the following week, it has the "Master's Meet" - the CIF championship, with the best from the divisions squaring off. And that's after having to go through the prelims for each division. It's close to the same for the rest of the state. Yeah, kids do lie, or more correctly, the parents lie in order to get kids to schools that are known for having strong programs, but that goes on all over the country. The rules against it aren't enforced all that well in certain areas, due to it not being "PC". However, it's still tougher to make the state meet finals in CA than anywhere else. The flip side is that some kids are burned out by the time the national meets roll around.
Henry Rono, during his time at Wazoo, was said to have been perplexed by the multiple divisions in NCAA collegiate running, the NAIA and JUCO. "Does every American runner need to be a champion?" he asked.
When you look around at the way most states conduct their "State" meets, I'd have to ask that question also. Seems there is a strong current of that kind of thinking running through our culture.
So you're from a small school and not good enough to make it to State in California? Oh, well. Most of us survive without ever competing in the Olympics. Seems most of the other states could learn a thing or two about the realities of life and the distribution of talent from the Golden State meet--a meet that really counts for something.
Seems like the California system is better, at least for states with big population. CA is right,the CIF Southern Section Finals offer team competition in 4 divisions with roughly equal school sizes. And Allyson Felix ran in the smallest school division at that meet but will (I assume) win a couple of state championships tomorrow. It is great coup for the student and the community when small school kids win the California State Meet and establish that they are true "state" champions. It can be done. During the past 20 years our local school has varied between 600-900 students but produced two state mile champions and, most recently, a shot champion. There is little chance for a small school to win a team title these days (except behind the power of a super-athlete like Felix) but it is still a great system for individuals.
The problem is, California thinks they're soooo much better than everyone. The fact is, in the past 10 years, maybe more, you definitely take a back seat to Texas on the men's side and in some years Florida is just as good or better. Cal women are riding a peak, but everything ends eventually. Quit being so preachy, I used to look forward to the Cal state meet, now I just want to see how badly your men fair against Texas. Most years you would be good comp for TX 3A or 4A. You'll have to go though qualifying before going against 5A.
You are right, Texas and Fla. performances are outstanding, better lots of times and with more depth than California these days. It just seems like it would be even more exciting for spectators and runners if all the very best Texas kids ran against one another.
No, the CA state meet is a better set up than the meets in Fla and Texas. The level of talent has gone down a bit in CA though, a lot of it due to the influx of illegals and their dependency on taxpayer funded social services (thus making for higher taxes on individuals and businesses) forcing a lot of individuals to move to other states - not only whites, but blacks as well, in the lower and middle classes. The set up is good in CA, but the performances ... they are not as consistently as good as they used to be. Texas was always strong in sprints, and now has some great distance stars as well. Fla has improved in all areas. It would be nice to see the top kids in those states square off to see one state champ in each event.
Only problem with 1 division is you essentially take away the team aspect of a state meet. No small school will be competitive in the 4x100m, 4x400m, 4x800m, 4x200m (girls in Ohio). If you don't care about team competition this will not matter to you, but I like the teams fighting for school honors, and no school w/250 kids can compete against one with 1500 kids for a team title. Just a thought.
By the way, at the state meet today in Ohio the top performance was a stellar 4:06 1600m by Jeff See of Middletown, OH (63, 63, 64, 56). Most impressive - he is a sophomore!! A name to watch.
>The level of talent has
>gone down a bit in CA though, a lot of it due to
>the influx of illegals and their dependency on
>taxpayer funded social services (thus making for
>higher taxes on individuals and businesses)
>forcing a lot of individuals to move to other
>states - not only whites, but blacks as well, in
>the lower and middle classes.
Right, like this is hardly an issue in Texas or Florida.
Well it certainly matters in the sense that if we've have a debate over the merits of CA vs TX and one of them is using primarily 17-18 athletes and the other is using 18-19, the paramters are skewed mightily.
You honestly believe that the former is PRIMARY in one place but not the other and that the latter occurs ONLY in the other? Quit imagining things, save the conspiracy theories for when you brunch with Oliver Stone.
Texas follows the same rules as EVERYONE else. If you are 19 after September 1 you are eligible. Quit trying to make California some paragon of virtual. Your residence rules make a joke of "neighborhood schools".
Dan--I have a question for you. Do you know where I can find the "overall" state records for high school Track and Field in the state of California? Can state records only be set in the "state meet", or can the be set any time there is the proper meet equipment (ie wind guage, FAT, etc.)? Thanks!
>Texas follows the same rules as EVERYONE else. If
>you are 19 after September 1 you are eligible.
>Quit trying to make California some paragon of
>virtual. Your residence rules make a joke of
If that's the case, please explain how in 2002 Edorian McCullough ran the entire season even though he turned 20 on January 6 (so he was 20 the entire season) and Kelly Willie turned 20 on September 7. I'd be very surprised if all states have the same rules. Suspect some are based on what year you were born, others on how old you are when the school year starts. A state that follows the latter rule would have an advantage.
As to California residence rules, what does that have to do with the discussion of ages? I never brought up residency. I don't live in California and know nothing of what they do there. I noted a statistican anomaly and commented on it. I keep asking somebody to prove that there's a lots of "older" stars in other states, but nobody has done so yet.
<<<Dan--I have a question for you. Do you know where I can find the "overall" state records for high school Track and Field in the state of California? Can state records only be set in the "state meet", or can the be set any time there is the proper meet equipment (ie wind guage, FAT, etc.)? Thanks!>>>
Greg-No, I don't know of a site with Cal HS records. The CIF site does not have them. And I'm not sure what records they'd keep anyway. Perhaps just state meet records.
In any case, you could easily deduce the best marks by Cal HS athletes from our boys prep editor's amazing High School Track annuan, available by e-mailing email@example.com