Jones: 6-Month Sentence


This Forum was created to divert traffic from Current Events at the height of the BALCO scandal. It comes and goes as "needed"; it's back to being locked.

Postby tafnut » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:01 pm

Dope Talk (locked)
This Forum was created to divert traffic from Current Events at the height of the BALCO scandal. It comes and goes as "needed"; Marion's 15 minutes of fame has passed


If only . . .
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Postby 79. » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:05 pm

Held like a dirty mangy dog up to public obloquy, even if she lied, robbed
or cheated, can't this mother get any compassion from any of us?
The long and fabulous history of athletics is not a fairy-tale paved with
morality.
If you can accept this will never change, then you can pretend to be a
track and field lover.
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Postby gh » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:15 pm

malmo wrote:...I don't know what Obadele Thompson is like, and don't want to hear about if he's from the same mold as the others. ...


I've never met him that I can recall, but by all accounts a warm & friendly sort (that takes him out of CJ mold right away!). Major Christian sort.

When he emerged in '96, we wrote, "A business student with a fine 3.8 GPA, Thompson comes by his academic excellence honestly. His dad is a college professor and hsi mom a registered nurse. And he's definitely no overaged foreigner being a 19-year-old junior."

All of which might mean nothing, of course, as the nice people of the world aren't immune from producing sleaze. But by all accounts he has always been one of the good guys.
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Postby tafnut » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:23 pm

79. wrote:can't this mother get any compassion from any of us?
As a mother, she does have my sympathy and compassion. As a 'role model' (which she carried herself as) for T&F, the PEDs admission comprises 30% of my disdain. The history of lying is what really makes me . . . cold.
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Postby malmo » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:35 pm

gh wrote:
malmo wrote:...I don't know what Obadele Thompson is like, and don't want to hear about if he's from the same mold as the others. ...


I've never met him that I can recall, but by all accounts a warm & friendly sort (that takes him out of CJ mold right away!). Major Christian sort.

When he emerged in '96, we wrote, "A business student with a fine 3.8 GPA, Thompson comes by his academic excellence honestly. His dad is a college professor and hsi mom a registered nurse. And he's definitely no overaged foreigner being a 19-year-old junior."

All of which might mean nothing, of course, as the nice people of the world aren't immune from producing sleaze. But by all accounts he has always been one of the good guys.


That's encouraging to hear.

Now for the bad (or good depending on POV) news. 6 months in a the Federal Pen minimum security is just one notch below a paid vacation. If you don't believe me then ask Carlos Arias, a Eugene runner via Chicago, will back me up on it.
Last edited by malmo on Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby EPelle » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:39 pm

Conte will second that.
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Postby tandfman » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:54 pm

79. wrote:Held like a dirty mangy dog up to public obloquy, even if she lied, robbed or cheated, can't this mother get any compassion from any of us?

I think the problem is that she lied to us, she robbed us and cheated us of the pleasure that we derived from her success. She hurt us. We invested our emotions and our support, and she has now stolen the rewards of that investment. We're not the only victims of what she did, but track fans everywhere feel personally betrayed.

Compassion? Yes, I feel compassion. I cannot forgive her for what she did, but I personally don't feel the need to continue dwelling on it and kicking her when she's down. Yet I understand those who are so angry and feel such a sense of personal loss that they cannot be compassionate and they cannot let it go. Marion is hurting right now, but so is the sport and so are some of our most loyal fans. I feel sorry for them, too. I think there's some of "them" in most of us.
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Postby tandfman » Fri Jan 11, 2008 12:56 pm

malmo wrote:Now for the bad (or good depending on POV) news. 6 months in a the Federal Pen minimum security is just one notch below a paid vacation.

Not for a mom with two young kids.
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Postby dakota » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:13 pm

I also typed "steroids" and "high school" into Google and found a San Francisco Chronicle article which cited a nationwide study from 2005 that found 5% of seniors admitted having tried steroids, and 40% said they were easily available.
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Postby EPelle » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:24 pm

tandfman wrote:Compassion? Yes, I feel compassion. I cannot forgive her for what she did, but I personally don't feel the need to continue dwelling on it and kicking her when she's down...

Neither does Conte:

"I feel very sad for Marion and her family. Marion did make some very poor choices and she does deserve serious consequences.

"There is no doubt in my mind that she has learned gigantic lessons.

"Hopefully, she will be able to serve as an example to others and help them to make good decisions."

"I certainly don't condone her repeated lies, but I do feel especially bad for Marion's mother and her two children.

"Marion was one of the most celebrated athletes in Olympic history and her mistakes have caused her to be stripped of everything she worked so very hard to achieve."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/7184203.stm
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Postby dj » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:34 pm

dakota wrote:I also typed "steroids" and "high school" into Google and found a San Francisco Chronicle article which cited a nationwide study from 2005 that found 5% of seniors admitted having tried steroids, and 40% said they were easily available.


That's probably a reference to a frequently (annually?) conducted CDC study. A frightening aspect of the 5% total is that only half of those kids are athletes. At least as many kids are using non-prescribed steroids for cosmetic purposes.
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Postby tafnut » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:59 pm

Conte wrote:"Hopefully, she will be able to serve as an example to others and help them to make good decisions."


Yikes - VC and I agree on the one positive outcome of this catastrophe (which is NOT understating the immediate AND lasting effect of Marion (and to a lesser degree, Justin).
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Postby trackrebel » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:14 pm

what the hell is wrong with this judge? has he taken into account that the man who sold the drugs to how many athletes only had to go to jail for four months?

I don´t know...to me a Paris Hilton who drove drunk and intoxicated again and again was sentenced with a few days in jail...and Marion goes six months to jail, two years probation plus the community hours? Please...I don´t know if I´m the only one feeling like this...but in my opinion, yes I know perjury is a crime...but nobody´s life or health was in danger like in those many dui cases...and she´s sentenced like that? No.

I´m praying for her and her family to go through this and keep her faith in God. Marion still representin You!!! For Life
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Postby EPelle » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:23 pm

Not to split hairs, but Conte had four months prison, four months home confinement for a total of eight months in custody.
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Postby Daisy » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:28 pm

trackrebel wrote:what the hell is wrong with this judge? has he taken into account that the man who sold the drugs to how many athletes only had to go to jail for four months?

.... yes I know perjury is a crime...


If it was not for the money laundering I expect she would have got less. I don't think you can compare Conte and Jones' sentences.
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Postby EPelle » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:33 pm

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnis ... ones_N.htm

Balanced opinion piece on today:s events.
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Postby Hufcor » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:38 pm

"Hopefully, she will be able to serve as an example to others and help them to make good decisions."


Now does anyone really believe this? I think as the money grows in the sport – this is going to grow as an issue. Sure the bureaucrats will want you to think they are getting a handle on the problem. However, I would not be so certain.

Can you image the problems we will encounter if the financial rewards were to gain to the levels of the “Pro” sport (baseball, basketball and football). Baseball is taking such a lenient attitude on the subject and I have not read anywhere if the other major sports have even implemented any testing? Sure make Track & Field an example in an Olympic year – smart going!

I am certain more young kids idolized Barry Bond than have ever heard of Marion Jones.
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Postby EPelle » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:48 pm

In addition to prison sentence, she has been ordered to 800 hours of community service. Remand date in march 2008.
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Postby mojo » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:19 pm

dukehjsteve wrote:
malmo wrote:I'm of the opinion that Marion must have had (or should have had) a "what have I done?" moment. She had the whole world in her hands, yet she surrounded herself with scumbags, hustlers, losers, and enablers etc... and threw it all away - all for nothing! I don't know what Obadele Thompson is like, and don't want to hear about if he's from the same mold as the others. Her collapse was painful to watch. Hopefully when it's all over she recovers to a normal and sane lifestyle in anonymity. It's not such a bad thing to get a job and pay the bills just like everyone else.


Your best post of the year malmo.


I was about to post the same thing.
Well said malmo.

I also think the sentence is fair-lying under oath is a serious offence as is money laundering. She got off lightly IMHO.
She also doesn't stand for what is right as she said (though I do appreciate her guts in facing the media at all).

She stands for what happens when you cheat and lie and become greedy.

I do hope and trust that she will serve her time and then go on to lead a normal life as a mum and wife. I really, really hope we don't get a movie or another book (by her anyway) about all this.

I couldn't stand to see her profit monetarily from all the deception.
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Postby Mennisco » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:57 pm

What Marion did was wrong, she is now accepting responsibility for her part.

Of course, only the little people pay taxes, so hopefully they'll learn something from her she-nanigans. Tyrants and other special cases need not consider the application of ethics, as Machiavelli so shrewdly perceived.
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Postby Athleticsimaging » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:07 pm

"Six months in prison is a lot," Davies told Reuters by telephone from IAAF headquarters in Monte Carlo. "But you do hope that it will be a deterrent to others.


You just have to love people with vain hopes and little clue. Let's not forget that she is not going to jail for doping, she is going to jail for perjury. The doping is purely incidental and the same outcome could have been achieved with any manner of activities she had to lie about.

All this will do is to make dopers more careful about construcing plausible deniability or other get outs well ahead of time instead of after the fact. It won't be a deterrent just a very good training exercise.
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Postby schigh » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:53 pm

dakota wrote:I also typed "steroids" and "high school" into Google and found a San Francisco Chronicle article which cited a nationwide study from 2005 that found 5% of seniors admitted having tried steroids, and 40% said they were easily available.


I don't think that going after a few high profile athletes after the fact is going to change to culture of steroids in athletics that is tacitly condoned (especially in baseball). It really seems like a side show to me and I'm not seeing a full committment to eliminate PED's going forward. Their are lots of sports successes out there who aren't getting "caught" and these surveys also show that there is a willingness to risk serious future health problems for "the gold" why not risk getting caught with that type of thought process.
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Postby bad hammy » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:09 pm

schigh wrote:. . . culture of steroids in athletics that is tacitly condoned (especially in baseball).

Open your eyes, people. Football, pro and college, much more winky winky on PEDs than baseball . . .
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Postby schigh » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:32 pm

bad hammy wrote:
schigh wrote:. . . culture of steroids in athletics that is tacitly condoned (especially in baseball).

Open your eyes, people. Football, pro and college, much more winky winky on PEDs than baseball . . .


OK. Agree. Long history of being condoned in many sports, football, track, cycling, etc. I was just sidetracked by the pretend investigation by baseball recently.
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Postby Pego » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:32 pm

bad hammy wrote:
schigh wrote:. . . culture of steroids in athletics that is tacitly condoned (especially in baseball).

Open your eyes, people. Football, pro and college, much more winky winky on PEDs than baseball . . .


When my kids went to high school (in the eighties), I as informed by some of their friends that there was some steroid use among the football players.
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Postby malmo » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:35 pm

Daisy wrote:
trackrebel wrote:what the hell is wrong with this judge? has he taken into account that the man who sold the drugs to how many athletes only had to go to jail for four months?

.... yes I know perjury is a crime...


If it was not for the money laundering I expect she would have got less. I don't think you can compare Conte and Jones' sentences.


Exactly. By all rights she should have been charged as a partner in the conspiracy and would have been facing a long time in the clink. She got a gift.

Perjury is not only a crime -- without truthful testimony our entire legal system would be on a shaky foundation. Perjury IS, by default, a serious crime. Six months is appropriate.
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Postby kuha » Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:07 pm

tandfman wrote:I think the problem is that she lied to us, she robbed us and cheated us of the pleasure that we derived from her success. She hurt us. We invested our emotions and our support, and she has now stolen the rewards of that investment. We're not the only victims of what she did, but track fans everywhere feel personally betrayed.


I've been watching the reaction-to-MJ from an arm's length. It does seem clear to me that the fans most angry now are exactly the ones who had the greatest emotional investment in her. I don't share the anger, in large measure, I suppose, because I never had much emotion invested in her. I was impressed by her performances, but (frankly) cared little about the person--didn't know and didn't really care whether she was good, bad, or indifferent. So, now, I personally do not feel "cheated" at all. The money I paid to watch the meets in which she competed was worth it to me, regardless of what we now know about her. OK, maybe I now feel I only got 96% of my money's worth from those meets, but I'm fine with that.

I've never quite understood the need to see pro athletes as "role models." They are performers, and we can and should applaud their performances. However, anything beyond that becomes a bit strange. I don't look to the great artists--Manet, Picasso, Jasper Johns, whoever--as role models. I appreciate their work...and the life story is what it is. I revere Secretariat but have a hard time figuring out how he might be a role model.

The fact that some athetes are genuinely great human beings--and I honestly think that Geb, Tergat, and a handful of others are truly that--is a wonderful anomaly, and a gift. Athletic excellence (indeed, ANY kind of excellence) has no necessary relation to moral virtue: none. Some great athletes, artists, etc., are saints, and some are criminals. Some thoroughly mediocre athletes, artists, etc., are saints, and some are criminals. Most athletes, etc., are somewhere in between: mostly decent, but fallible human beings.

If it's role models we're after, we need to look well beyond the playing field to find a really significant number. They're out there, for sure, but few are Olympic gold medalists.
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Postby bambam » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:08 pm

gh wrote:...I don't know what Obadele Thompson is like, and don't want to hear about if he's from the same mold as the others. ...


I've heard he is a really good guy, and nothing like her previous husbands and associates.
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Postby dakota » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:13 pm

Secretariat could be a role model to other athletes and celebrities in that he didn't say very much.
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Postby Daisy » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:24 am

Strange quote from the judge.

Judge Karas said he believed a message needed to be sent to athletes who have abused drugs and as a result, have overlooked the values of "hard work, dedication, teamwork and sportsmanship".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7182969.stm


I have to disagree with the hard work and dedication part. If anything the drugs allow them to work harder. He seems to be under the impression the strength is an automatic by product of steroids.
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Postby EPelle » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:25 am

kuha wrote:...I've never quite understood the need to see pro athletes as "role models." They are performers, and we can and should applaud their performances. However, anything beyond that becomes a bit strange. I don't look to the great artists--Manet, Picasso, Jasper Johns, whoever--as role models. I appreciate their work...and the life story is what it is. I revere Secretariat but have a hard time figuring out how he might be a role model...

Excellent post, kuha.

Karas spoke for approximately 20 minutes during Jones sentencing hearing. Among the points he made was that she was, as an Olympian, a defacto role model. You may not agree with that, but recall from those 2000 Nike commercials: Jones called for athletes to be better role models. Privately, Jones not only accused her peers of not walking along a path as role models, but she also cast the first stone at them as well. She had a desire for women to be respected (and she used those Nike commercials as a platform for that), yet she was oblivious to the perception women had of her following her long string of very poor choices in men, managers, trainers, and, ultimately, in her poor choices when it came to taking drugs and lying to investigators. Craddock, her UNC trainer, would later say that Jones was a role model and a hero to many young people.

Bev Kearney would also state on previous occasion:

“You have a responsibility that goes beyond the playing field. You have a responsibility to teach and to inspire young people in terms of intellectual wisdom and not just academic wisdom. You teach life skills and how to be successful as an African American in our society and as a woman in our society.”

Jones stated she stood for being a role model, yet she failed to live up to her part. She took it upon herself to be one. Karas reminded her of her obligation.
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Postby eldrick » Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:55 am

Athleticsimaging wrote:
"Six months in prison is a lot," Davies told Reuters by telephone from IAAF headquarters in Monte Carlo. "But you do hope that it will be a deterrent to others.


You just have to love people with vain hopes and little clue. Let's not forget that she is not going to jail for doping, she is going to jail for perjury. The doping is purely incidental and the same outcome could have been achieved with any manner of activities she had to lie about.

All this will do is to make dopers more careful about construcing plausible deniability or other get outs well ahead of time instead of after the fact. It won't be a deterrent just a very good training exercise.


great post

silly moo denise lewis repeats iaaf guy :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/7184203.stm

If you take it into the realm of lying when questioned, you'll get punished


not with jail if it's only to iaaf/wada
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Postby gh » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:49 am

Daisy wrote:Strange quote from the judge.

Judge Karas said he believed a message needed to be sent to athletes who have abused drugs and as a result, have overlooked the values of "hard work, dedication, teamwork and sportsmanship".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7182969.stm


I have to disagree with the hard work and dedication part. If anything the drugs allow them to work harder. He seems to be under the impression the strength is an automatic by product of steroids.


Yes, the great irony is that it has become chic to call "steroids" the easy way when in fact they don't deliver their magic unless you work harder. They just facilitate your ability to do so.
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Postby gh » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:51 am

I've seen approximately 122,000 different news headlines on Jones in the last 24 hours. The best was from Australia's Courier-Mail:

<<gold medals to iron bars>>
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Postby EPelle » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:43 pm

Lost in the news is what C.J. Hunter feels (spoken through his attorney):

"I certainly think it's fair to say that whereas C.J. does not relish anyone having to go through this, certainly not someone he was married to ... it is a vindication of the story he told the grand jury, and he testified truthfully."
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Postby malmo » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:28 pm

EPelle wrote:Lost in the news is what C.J. Hunter feels (spoken through his attorney):

"I certainly think it's fair to say that whereas C.J. does not relish anyone having to go through this, certainly not someone he was married to ... it is a vindication of the story he told the grand jury, and he testified truthfully."


All but forgotten, those who testified truthfully in those grand jury hearings were smeared publicly by Marion and others here on this message board.
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Postby bad hammy » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:47 pm

malmo wrote:
EPelle wrote:Lost in the news is what C.J. Hunter feels (spoken through his attorney):

"I certainly think it's fair to say that whereas C.J. does not relish anyone having to go through this, certainly not someone he was married to ... it is a vindication of the story he told the grand jury, and he testified truthfully."


All but forgotten, those who testified truthfully in those grand jury hearings were smeared publicly by Marion and others here on this message board.

Just so we are clear, even if CJ and VC were correct, that does not make them heroes in this little passion play . . .
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Postby malmo » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:54 pm

bad hammy wrote: Just so we are clear, even if CJ and VC were correct, that does not make them heroes in this little passion play .

I didn't suggest anything like that.

They were roundly condemned by Marion and others here specifically because of their truthful testimony against Marion.

Just so your clear on this, being truthful isn't something to be applauded for, it's what you're supposed to do.
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Postby bad hammy » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:03 pm

malmo wrote:
bad hammy wrote: Just so we are clear, even if CJ and VC were correct, that does not make them heroes in this little passion play .

I didn't suggest anything like that.

Actually, yes you did . . .
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Postby malmo » Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:11 pm

bad hammy wrote:
malmo wrote:
bad hammy wrote: Just so we are clear, even if CJ and VC were correct, that does not make them heroes in this little passion play .

I didn't suggest anything like that.

Actually, yes you did . . .


Actually NO. I explicitly said so.
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