All-Time World Cup Day 2: Field Events


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All-Time World Cup Day 2: Field Events

Postby jsquire » Wed Jun 04, 2003 5:32 am

We resume competition with the field events. For the long jump:

Africa: Neville Price
Americas: Ivan Pedroso
Asia: Chuhei Nambu
Europe: Peter O’Connor
Pacific: Matthew Roseingrave
UK: Lynn Davies
USA: Carl Lewis
USSR: Igor Ter-Ovanasyan

And the results:
1) Lewis
2) Ter-O
3) Pedroso
4) O’Connor
5) Nambu
6) Davies
7) Roseingrave
8) Price

Team scoring through 10 events:
67 USA
64 Europe
58 USSR
44 Americas
38 Africa
35 Pacific
32 UK
23 Asia
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Re: All-Time World Cup Day 2: Field Events

Postby jsquire » Wed Jun 04, 2003 5:32 am

The shot put:
Africa: Janus Robberts
Americas: George Gray
Asia: Bilal Saad Mubarak
Europe: Udo Beyer
Pacific: Les Mills
UK: Geoff Capes
USA: Parry O’Brien
USSR: Aleksandr Barishnikov

The results:
1) O’Brien
2) Beyer
3) Gray
4) Barishnikov
5) Capes
6) Robberts
7) Mills
8) Mubarak

Team scores through 11 events:
75 USA
71 Europe
63 USSR
50 Americas
41 Africa
37 Pacific
36 UK
24 Asia
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Re: All-Time World Cup Day 2: Field Events

Postby jsquire » Wed Jun 04, 2003 5:32 am

Competitors in the high jump:
Africa: Papa Gallo Thiam
Americas: Javier Sotomayor
Asia: Ni Ziqin
Europe: Patrick Sjoberg
Pacific: John Winter
UK: Steve Smith
USA: Dwight Stones
USSR: Valeriy Brumel

And the results:
1) Brumel
2) Sotomayor
3) Stones
4) Sjoberg
5) Ni
6) Winter
7) Thiam
8) Smith

Team scores through 12 events:
81 USA
76 Europe
71 USSR
57 Americas
43 Africa
40 Pacific
37 UK
28 Asia
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Re: All-Time World Cup Day 2: Field Events

Postby jsquire » Wed Jun 04, 2003 5:32 am

The competitors for the final field event, the ever-popular javelin throw:
I’ll freely admit I’m a bit out of my league, as this is the event whose history I’ve studied the least.

Africa: Marius Corbett
Americas: Emeterio Gonzalez
Asia: Kazihiro Mizoguchi
Europe: Jan Zelezny
Pacific: Gavin Lovegrove
UK: Steve Backley
USA: Bud Held
USSR: Janis Lusis

The results:
1) Zelezny
2) Lusis
3) Backley
4) Held
5) Corbett
6) Mizoguchi
7) Lovegrove
8) Gonzalez

Team scores through 13 events:
86 USA
84 Europe
78 USSR
58 Americas
47 Africa
43 UK
42 Pacific
31 Asia
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Re: All-Time World Cup Day 2: Field Events

Postby jhc68 » Wed Jun 04, 2003 7:20 pm

Naw, Stones is 4th while mighty mite Brumel (surrounded by giants!) beats Sjoberg on misses for 2nd and Soto wins.
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Re: All-Time World Cup Day 2: Field Events

Postby Guest » Thu Jun 05, 2003 3:12 am

Answer me this: How many undefeated seasons did Brumel have? How many did Soto have? I didn't just rank them in that order for no reason. Brumel was dominant and consistent, far more so than Soto.
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Re: All-Time World Cup Day 2: Field Events

Postby jhc68 » Thu Jun 05, 2003 9:56 pm

Brumel dominated the era and was a nails competitor, that is certain. His 7'5 3/4" jump was one of the most memorable feats in HJ history. But even Brumel was not untouchable --remember, he only won on misses against Thomas at the '64 Games. And, his WR did not stand as long as Soto's 8 footer already has. When two equally great athletes jump against one another, size counts. Brumel could have been 3-4 inches superior to Soto at raising his center of gravity and Soto still wins just on the basis of body ht.
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Re: All-Time World Cup Day 2: Field Events

Postby Guest » Thu Jun 05, 2003 10:53 pm

Soto is one of the "dirtiest" competitors the event has ever seen. A walking drug factory.
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Re: All-Time World Cup Day 2: Field Events

Postby parkerclay » Fri Jun 06, 2003 4:29 am

The "only" drug that he tested positive for was cocaine and that was heavily disputed. Either way, it is not performance enhancing so it's not relevant to this discussion
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Re: All-Time World Cup Day 2: Field Events

Postby jsquire » Fri Jun 06, 2003 4:40 am

>Brumel's WR did not stand as
>long as Soto's 8 footer already has.

Quite true, but no one has invented a new and better way of jumping. How many straddlers have ever jumped higher than Brumel? Last I counted, just one. (T&FN should learn Chinese and change their records to show Ni Zhiqin instead of Chih-chin Ni.) No one has answered my question of how many undefeated seasons Soto put together. I'm just doing it off the top of my head, but I think Brumel had four.

I never said that this was an idealized competition. I placed them in order based on how they competed against their peers. Brumel lost only one major competition, when he was still a teenager. Soto lost many more than that.
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Re: All-Time World Cup Day 2: Field Events

Postby BillCarr » Fri Jun 06, 2003 5:01 am

uh, weren't Yashchenko and the East German dude (Rolf Beirschmidt - spelling is wrong) at marks significantly higher than Brumel

in the Boston Public Library main reading room there sits a very dusty old training book on the shelves from 1980 written by the Italian Sports Federation on how to train "like a pro" in all of the different events. A first glance might offer some "ooh, aahs" at the great frame photos of a Pietro Mennea start. But far more interesting is the section on high jump, where there is a detailed test based on height, flexibility, and speed on which style to choose. For the straddle there are great hand-drawn sketches of Yashchenko clearing about 7-6. What a graceful style compared to the flop.
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Re: All-Time World Cup Day 2: Field Events

Postby gh » Fri Jun 06, 2003 7:15 am

>The "only" drug that he tested positive for was
>cocaine and that was heavily disputed. Either
>way, it is not performance enhancing so it's not
>relevant to this discussion>>

Not so, grasshopper. First, I agree with you that cocaine is not performance-enhancing, and I don't think it should be on any banned list (by track). Soto's positive weas "heavily disputed" only by Soto and the Cuban Federation. Just like everybody else from every other country shouts innocence to the rooftops.

That 2-year sentence (from the Pan-Am Games of '99) was commuted in time for him to compete again in '01. I think it safe to say that the influence of Alberto Juantorena as a member of the IAAF Council played no small part in that.

But poor El Caballo! The Horse backed the wrong horse!

In July of '01 Soto turned up positive for nandralone at a meet in Spain. Before that was made public, Soto announced his retirement, even though shorlty before he had said he would continue at least another year. When that positive was announced there was only muted whinging from the Cuban camp.
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Re: All-Time World Cup Day 2: Field Events

Postby tandfman » Fri Jun 06, 2003 7:59 am

>That 2-year sentence (from the Pan-Am Games of '99) was commuted in time for him to compete again in '01.<

It was worse than that. They commuted it in '00 so he could compete in the Sydney Olympics.
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Re: All-Time World Cup Day 2: Field Events

Postby jhc68 » Fri Jun 06, 2003 10:30 am

Well, it one thing to say the Soto is one of the "dirtiest" athletes ever, but who in the past 40 years do we point to as absolutely clean? The comparison that drew that remark was Brumel vs. Soto. Do we presume that Brumel was untainted by the old Soviet sports medicine system?
As for Yaschencko and Beilschmidt, they WERE incredible to watch and produced some amazing performances. As for consistency, according to Geoff Nelson's research, Rolf Beilschmidt jumped 7' 2 5/8" or higher 89 times...Yikes!
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