Do you think Jones should serve time in jail?


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Do you think Jones should serve time in jail?

Postby mojo » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:04 pm

I don't really know how I feel ;part of me says yes the other says no-that prisons should only be those who pose a risk to society. On the hand I don't want her given a community service sentence where she talks to young people about not taking PEDs. She has not shown any real, sincere remorse yet for her years of lying and cheating.

So what do you think- should Marion spend time in the slammer and if not what would be an appropriate punishment? (or has she paid enough of a price already-assuming she loses her medals?).

I realize she would go to prison for lying to federal agents.
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Postby MJR » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:22 pm

She stole millions of dollars from people (and spent it all like an idiot). She is a felon (or should be). Lock her up.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:27 pm

MJR wrote:She stole millions of dollars from people (and spent it all like an idiot). She is a felon (or should be). Lock her up.

Amen! At least Mike Tyson earned his million$ fair and square.
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Postby bad hammy » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:30 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
MJR wrote:She stole millions of dollars from people (and spent it all like an idiot). She is a felon (or should be). Lock her up.

Amen! At least Mike Tyson earned his million$ fair and square.

(In case you were not being ironic.)

Oh yeah, he was clean . . . :roll:
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Postby MJR » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:46 pm

bad hammy wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
MJR wrote:She stole millions of dollars from people (and spent it all like an idiot). She is a felon (or should be). Lock her up.

Amen! At least Mike Tyson earned his million$ fair and square.

(In case you were not being ironic.)

Oh yeah, he was clean . . . :roll:


at least he was honest, in his own words, "I's on the Zoloft to stops from killin y'all"
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Postby bad hammy » Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:55 pm

MJR wrote:She stole millions of dollars from people (and spent it all like an idiot). She is a felon (or should be). Lock her up.

Your stridency is obviously ignoring the big picture, which is that she was/is far from alone . . .
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Postby tafnut » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:06 pm

bad hammy wrote:
MJR wrote:She stole millions of dollars from people (and spent it all like an idiot). She is a felon (or should be). Lock her up.

Your stridency is obviously ignoring the big picture, which is that she was/is far from alone . . .

Indeed. Marion passed the same tests that her opponents passed. She has confessed now. We have no way of knowing whether they were as dirty as she.
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Postby eldrick » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:18 pm

on the basis of her "confession", she de-frauded anyone who turned up to a meet, to specifically see her run

fraud is a criminal offence...
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Postby tafnut » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:32 pm

eldrick wrote:on the basis of her "confession", she de-frauded anyone who turned up to a meet, to specifically see her run
fraud is a criminal offence...


oooo - class-action suit! Some ambulance-chaser should pick that up!
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Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:00 pm

bad hammy wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
MJR wrote:She stole millions of dollars from people (and spent it all like an idiot). She is a felon (or should be). Lock her up.

Amen! At least Mike Tyson earned his million$ fair and square.

(In case you were not being ironic.)

Oh yeah, he was clean . . . :roll:

What's your point? I can't solve your riddle. Break it down to me in kindergarten language what you're trying to say. :?:
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Postby bad hammy » Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:05 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:What's your point? I can't solve your riddle. Break it down to me in kindergarten language what you're trying to say. :?:

Ditto . . .
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Postby Mats Nilsson » Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:29 pm

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Postby Friar » Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:09 am

When you don't bother to tell the truth to the Feds,you're obstructing justice, ie. costing the investigation more time and money. This isn't about her PED history.

Marion has been on a razor's edge for so long that she should have been better prepared for this eventuality.

I'm sorry she has to go to the joint --sort of-- but whatever time she does, I have the feeling it's probably going to be less than she deserves.
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Postby EPelle » Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:23 am

tafnut wrote:
bad hammy wrote:
MJR wrote:She stole millions of dollars from people (and spent it all like an idiot). She is a felon (or should be). Lock her up.

Your stridency is obviously ignoring the big picture, which is that she was/is far from alone . . .

Indeed. Marion passed the same tests that her opponents passed. She has confessed now. We have no way of knowing whether they were as dirty as she.


"I don't think she should have her medals taken away.

"The anti-doping procedures and policies in place are basically inept."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/7032600.stm
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Postby nctrackfan » Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:36 am

She has suffered. She's bankrupt. Her life as she knew it, is ruined. I don't think prison time is warranted here.
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Postby Mats Nilsson » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:36 am

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Postby tafnut » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:41 am

What does being an athlete have to do with anything? Athletes should NOT be treated differently than anyone else. If our legal system says her wrongdoing is criminal, she's a criminal. If it says she should go to jail, she should go to jail. Period.
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Postby Daisy » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:41 am

Mats Nilsson wrote:but we cannot treat her or other cheating athletes [Ben Johnson comes to mind] as common criminals. Don't you guys think that she deserves better?


Hardly an accurate comparison. Jail time was never in the picture for BJ.

There is little connection with the jail time and her taking the PED's or being a superstar athlete. On the other hand there is a connection with her perjury and fraud. It is the latter two that are going to get her jail time.
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Postby Mats Nilsson » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:55 am

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Postby Mats Nilsson » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:57 am

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Postby tafnut » Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:59 am

Mats Nilsson wrote:Perhaps your legal system is fucked up tafnut. have you ever contemplated that?

Whence the hostility? Was somebody really bad to you here?
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Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:02 am

Mats Nilsson wrote:She is simply not a criminal. Sports should be kept out of the civil courts as much as possible.

So athletes should be immune to federal law? Martha Stewart went to prison for a lot less.
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Postby Mats Nilsson » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:06 am

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Postby Mats Nilsson » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:08 am

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Postby tafnut » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:16 am

Mats Nilsson wrote:Oh yes Tafnut, I served 2 years in Guantanamo Bay detention camp due to drug use.

Is that code for Birmingham? Did they abuse you there?
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Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:25 am

Mats Nilsson wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
Mats Nilsson wrote:She is simply not a criminal. Sports should be kept out of the civil courts as much as possible.

So athletes should be immune to federal law? Martha Stewart went to prison for a lot less.


It depends on the each individual case of course. I have never mentioned something about immunity. All I am saying is that drug-use in elite sports should not be a concern of the feds. There are bigger fish to fry when it comes to drugs in general.

The Feds don't care about PED's, they only care about lying. That's why Jason Giambi, who admitted his drug use to them, faced no legal consequences. I'm not saying that I agree with the law. I didn't even know the law existed until a couple of years ago. But we do live in a country where the President was impeached for lying about his sex life.
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Postby Mennisco » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:32 am

It's one thing to go to prison for lying to federal investigators. It is quite another state of affairs to go to jail for using steroids. If all guilty athletes decided to confess tomorrow, any nominations for the location of the new Trump Calaboose Tower?
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Postby Mats Nilsson » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:36 am

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Postby Mats Nilsson » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:39 am

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Postby Daisy » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:39 am

Mats Nilsson wrote:
Daisy wrote:
Mats Nilsson wrote:but we cannot treat her or other cheating athletes [Ben Johnson comes to mind] as common criminals. Don't you guys think that she deserves better?


Hardly an accurate comparison. Jail time was never in the picture for BJ.

There is little connection with the jail time and her taking the PED's or being a superstar athlete. On the other hand there is a connection with her perjury and fraud. It is the latter two that are going to get her jail time.

You are missing the point Daisy. The point is that we [the general population + media] treat these athletes as low life criminals in all ways except for jail time.

OK, I did miss that this was your point. This whole thread seems to be at cross purposes. There are two issues. First, does Marion Jones deserve to go to jail. I don't think there is any doubt about this (fraud and perjury). Second, and the more interesting debate, should athletes who are caught using PED's be treated like criminals. I do not believe they should be. However, I do think they should be banned from the sport for breaking the rules. Are the rules fair? That is a third issue.
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Postby tafnut » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:41 am

Mats Nilsson wrote:Tuscaloosa....not Birmingham. Big difference.

Aha, I see - no wonder you're bitter! :?
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Postby Mats Nilsson » Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:13 am

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Postby Mats Nilsson » Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:46 am

tafnut wrote:
Mats Nilsson wrote:Tuscaloosa....not Birmingham. Big difference.

Aha, I see - no wonder you're bitter! :?


Oh yeah, my "bitterness and despair" keeps me up day and night Tafnut. Tell me the logic in this: on one hand you defended MJ a couple of years ago although it was obvious that she had been juicing and now you are the first one in line to crucify her. How noble. Where is your humanity?

I am a constant critique of doping-users and I think they should be banned life-time from the sport. When I was an active athlete, the reason for this was purely egotistical. Nowadays, I just feel sympathy for all the athletes that are trying to push the limits withut using PEDS. However, I have also realized that sport is never really on a level playing field to start with [compare the training conditions of an African javelin thrower to a Finnish for example], so from a philosphical perspective I don't think that PED users are morally inferior to Joe Schmoe who is taking Viagra to improve his sexual ability. All walks of life are extremely competitive and while we allow the general population to improve their performance we hold the athletes to a higher standard. I find it hypocritical to some extent. Thus, I would and will never allow myself to compare the PED users to low-life criminals regardless if they lie about it in federal court or not [it is not like the feds always tell the truth anyway ;-)].
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Postby hammer forever » Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:58 am

why was the plea entered in a U.S. District Court in New York State (White Plains, NY)? What is the significance of using New York State? If she does happen to actually serve jail time, anybody know what prison or state that might be in?
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Postby Mennisco » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:37 am

tafnut wrote:What does being an athlete have to do with anything? Athletes should NOT be treated differently than anyone else. If our legal system says her wrongdoing is criminal, she's a criminal. If it says she should go to jail, she should go to jail. Period.


I don't think you are capable of viewing this topic objectively, certainly not so soon after the "crime".
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Postby tafnut » Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:13 pm

Mats Nilsson wrote:Tell me the logic in this: on one hand you defended MJ a couple of years ago although it was obvious that she had been juicing and now you are the first one in line to crucify her. How noble. Where is your humanity?

I defended her when there was no PROOF that she was guilty. During ALL the time I defended her, I always said, if and when we have proof or her confession, THEN I will be convinced. Now I am convinced. Now that it's clear that she's guilty, she should pay the full consequence of her actions. My humanity is wholly intact.

Mennisco wrote:I don't think you are capable of viewing this topic objectively, certainly not so soon after the "crime".

I'm one of the FEW who clearly saw BOTH sides of this issue. I presumed her innocent until proven guilty. Why should she be treated differently from a non-athlete? If you do illegal drugs, you get punished. Seems like a simple concept to me.
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Postby tandfman » Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:33 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:The Feds don't care about PED's, they only care about lying.

I don't think that's true. If they didn't care about PED's, they could have just thrown the book at Marion on the bank check thing. But it seems to me that it was important for them to get her to help in the Graham case and perhaps also to clarify the status of her own PED use. Lying was perhpas the least of it, but they used that issue to get the deal done.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:37 pm

tandfman wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:The Feds don't care about PED's, they only care about lying.

I don't think that's true. If they didn't care about PED's, they could have just thrown the book at Marion on the bank check thing. But it seems to me that it was important for them to get her to help in the Graham case and perhaps also to clarify the status of her own PED use. Lying was perhpas the least of it, but they used that issue to get the deal done.

Then why aren't they going after Jason Giambi and Jose Canseco? I think the G-men are only concerned with PED distributors, not users. Since USATF and the IAAF have no collaborative relationship with the FBI, Marion Jones would have come out of this unscathed if she had only told the truth.
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Postby Mennisco » Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:18 pm

tafnut wrote:
Mennisco wrote:I don't think you are capable of viewing this topic objectively, certainly not so soon after the "crime".

I'm one of the FEW who clearly saw BOTH sides of this issue. I presumed her innocent until proven guilty. Why should she be treated differently from a non-athlete? If you do illegal drugs, you get punished. Seems like a simple concept to me.


Do you mean that she has not embarrassed you? From your posts on some other threads, that seems to be clear. Not that anyone could blame you - as one of her most vocal [perhaps THE most vocal] supporters, that would be understandable. Someone who didn't really care one way or another about her would not be as likely to take the whole thing at least somewhat personally.
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Postby tafnut » Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:30 pm

Mennisco wrote:Do you mean that she has not embarrassed you? From your posts on some other threads, that seems to be clear. Not that anyone could blame you - as one of her most vocal [perhaps THE most vocal] supporters, that would be understandable. Someone who didn't really care one way or another about her would not be as likely to take the whole thing at least somewhat personally.

I defended her when I thought she deserved defending. Now that her guilt has been established, I ask that she receive the full force of the law, whatever that might be. If her lawyers can plea bargain it down to 6 months, good for them. I fail to see how my 'objectivity' has been compromised. Am I disappointed in her? You betcha. Same as I was with Gatlin. I thought both had the talent to forgo the PEDs route. My bad. Will I continue to defend those who are under suspicion, but for whom there is no proof. Probably. I'm not going to give up entirely on the idea of clean T&F elites. Am I chagrined about all this? Yup. Will the sun rise tomorrow? Yup. :D
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