Benny wrote:But the issue of 7/8 years Statute of Limitations should never enable an athlete to say . . .
To stay on the extreme side, rapists can do this. So we are going to hold PED-using athletes to a stricter standard than rapists??
You are making the wrong comparison. If someone admits to something illegal that exonerates someone else that is in jail, are you saying that the statute of limitations would apply and that the case wouldn't reopen? That is the more appropriate comparison.
Jaack wrote:Pauline Davis Thompson is the Olympic champion!!!
She arrived at Sydney at the age of 34, dropping from the 400m to the 200m - she took. 2 off her PB of 8 years, then another to place second in the final BEHIND MJ!
At 34, the oldest sprint champion in the history of the sport(?)! Pauline Davis Thompson- What a legend.
No, I don't think so.
Have you anything more to add? You don't think she is the oldest? You don't think she's a legend? You don't think she was 34 years old or dropped her pb by .2???
Why did you put half of the post in Bold?
I can say what I am thinking when I read these facts.
If I did, my post would be pulled.
MJD wrote:You are making the wrong comparison. If someone admits to something illegal that exonerates someone else that is in jail, are you saying that the statute of limitations would apply and that the case wouldn't reopen? That is the more appropriate comparison.
I would think that getting a medal boost over eight years down the road is just about this close to being as useful and rewarding to the athlete as the posthumously reinstatement of the golds in Jim Thorpe's case. But that said I am starting to see that the artificial eight year statute of limitations in the case of a confessional like this does not make much sense.
On the other hand in this case (and maybe many/most cases) I have not much faith that those getting the bump ups are any cleaner than MJ.
bad hammy wrote:So you are fine with any and all marks made by PED users who used PEDs prior to their being banned? It is not the use of the PED itself that bothers you, it is the arbitrary date when some governing body said 'no more'?
Yes. If it's not against the rules then it's not cheating.
Everybody else at the time was perfectly within their rights to do the same. It may be unsavoury and we might not like it but it's not cheating.
If altitude tents are banned in the future does that make Paula a cheat
bad hammy wrote:So you are fine with any and all marks made by PED users who used PEDs prior to their being banned? It is not the use of the PED itself that bothers you, it is the arbitrary date when some governing body said 'no more'?
Yes. If it's not against the rules then it's not cheating.
Everybody else at the time was perfectly within their rights to do the same. It may be unsavoury and we might not like it but it's not cheating.
So we can just fix this whole problem by making everything legal!
bad hammy wrote:So we can just fix this whole problem by making everything legal!
No, because that would force people to take potentially harmful drugs in order to compete on an equal footing. I'm not saying I agree with people taking anything to improve their performances but if at the, time whatever it is, is not illegal I don't see how we can complain.
As i previously stated I have no interest at all in the Barry Bonds case but if it's true that any drugs he may have taken during the period he claimed his record what rule is he supposed to have broken?
Flumpy wrote:As i previously stated I have no interest at all in the Barry Bonds case but if it's true that any drugs he may have taken during the period he claimed his record what rule is he supposed to have broken?
I feel likewise about Barry Who? ... don't you mean "Bobby"? (as I once asked my son).
The only "sanction" Bonds will incur will be sitting in the old-folks home ump-teen years for now and still excluded from the Hall of Fame. That, and the loss of fists-full of dollars that accrue, post-retirement, to heroes of major sports in America.
bijanc wrote:What sprinters and relay teams stand to gain Oly bronzes, silvers and gold if the IOC strip her (and US relay women) of all her medals?
Does it move Ottey up in the career count?
BCB
merlene wouldn;t gain another medal in the realy as JAM came 2nd and USA 3rd in 2000 but she does get an individual bronze in 100m
she is already the most bemedellad woman in OG track and field history with 8 medals beating shirly strickland and irina szewinska with 7, this takes her to 9.
bad hammy wrote:So we can just fix this whole problem by making everything legal!
I gotta be honest, part of me is leaning in this direction. The part of me who believes 90% of the best athletes are using sumthin, what other conclusion can i come to? This same part of me see's a huge wave of PED'S and a small army of well intentioned souls fighting it with cheap umbrellas.
This shit they're taking works, it works big time. You think you can stop it? Have any drug wars been won? Remember when our sport wasnt Pro? That became a farce. Do we have a new farce?
This is so depressing. Maybe the way to win is to surrender? As Doc Phil would say, " What your doin now, how's that workin for ya?"
bad hammy wrote:So we can just fix this whole problem by making everything legal!
I gotta be honest, part of me is leaning in this direction. The part of me who believes 90% of the best athletes are using sumthin, what other conclusion can i come to? This same part of me see's a huge wave of PED'S and a small army of well intentioned souls fighting it with cheap umbrellas.
This shit they're taking works, it works big time. You think you can stop it? Have any drug wars been won? Remember when our sport wasnt Pro? That became a farce. Do we have a new farce?
This is so depressing. Maybe the way to win is to surrender? As Doc Phil would say, " What your doin now, how's that workin for ya?"
That's exactly what happened with "Prohibition". The government threw in the towel. Look at Nevada, the first state to legalize prostitution and gambling. If gambling was so bad, why are so many other states following their example? Maybe it's only a matter of time before the other states legalize prostitution too.
bad hammy wrote:So we can just fix this whole problem by making everything legal!
I gotta be honest, part of me is leaning in this direction. The part of me who believes 90% of the best athletes are using sumthin, what other conclusion can i come to? This same part of me see's a huge wave of PED'S and a small army of well intentioned souls fighting it with cheap umbrellas.
This shit they're taking works, it works big time. You think you can stop it? Have any drug wars been won? Remember when our sport wasnt Pro? That became a farce. Do we have a new farce?
This is so depressing. Maybe the way to win is to surrender? As Doc Phil would say, " What your doin now, how's that workin for ya?"
This is the sad result when a slice of the sport's biggest fans come to believe that nothing matters quite so much as faster, higher, farther. To this end, "we" are apparently willing to offer up the good long-term health of (many?) athletes, while consigning other athletes - those who decline to offer up their bodies as sacrifices - to the status of no-hopers who can never hope to merit "our" admiration and attention.
SQUACKEE wrote:MJ- front page story and more in the sports section in todays Danbury News Times- Connecticut
In the wake of the initial announcement of the letter the SF Chron's (BALCO journalism investigation HQ) Friday edition had a blurb on the bottom of the front page and an article by the BALCO writers on the front page of the sports. Today's edition (post courtroom) had front page articles in both the main section and the sports section. This was my favorite of the bunch, from the front page today: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... NSL9R1.DTL
Gwen Knapp of the SF Chron wrote:Jones has been lying about her drug use for ages, and everyone with a functioning brain stem knew it.
I feel for my friends who are involved in American track and field. Jones has dealt their sport a wickedly damaging blow. Ironically, no sport likely has been more upfront about cleansing itself of drug cheats.
donley2 wrote:One particularly pertinent quote: "I feel for my friends who are involved in American track and field. Jones has dealt their sport a wickedly damaging blow. Ironically, no sport likely has been more upfront about cleansing itself of drug cheats."
That's exactly how I feel about our situation right now.
of course all her medals ahould be taken away but we can't have a state of affairs where they are then awarded to other known cheats as happened when kelli white was DQ. i don;t know how it can be done but if you are convicted of a drug offence then there should be some rule where all your previous achievements are wiped
i don't think she ever was too happy about the chinese burying the 3 & 10k wrs to levels no one will dig them up again for decades, denying current athletes chances of breaking a "proper" track wr ( she had her chance at the 5k one in '02, but that was her misguided tactics of treating it as a "real race" for 600m instead of a gun-to-tape blast as befitted her being head & shoulders above anyone in that race )
mump boy wrote:i don;t know how it can be done but if you are convicted of a drug offence then there should be some rule where all your previous achievements are wiped
so, linford tests +ve for nandrolone when ancient & retired except for a "fun" race doreen or whoever, goaded him into, & you want to take away all his gold medals ?
SQUACKEE wrote:MJ- front page story and more in the sports section in todays Danbury News Times- Connecticut
In the wake of the initial announcement of the letter the SF Chron's (BALCO journalism investigation HQ) Friday edition had a blurb on the bottom of the front page and an article by the BALCO writers on the front page of the sports. Today's edition (post courtroom) had front page articles in both the main section and the sports section. This was my favorite of the bunch, from the front page today: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... NSL9R1.DTL
Gwen Knapp of the SF Chron wrote:Jones has been lying about her drug use for ages, and everyone with a functioning brain stem knew it.
bad hammy wrote:Sunday edition: zero stories about MJ . . .
still playing well world-wide:
http://news.google.com/news?ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=com.google:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&tab=wn&q=%22marion+jones%22&scoring=n
Let's remember, she wouldn't have been caught if there had not been FBI involvement and those of other agencies. Sport and government agencies need to continue working together.
mump boy wrote:i don;t know how it can be done but if you are convicted of a drug offence then there should be some rule where all your previous achievements are wiped
so, linford tests +ve for nandrolone when ancient & retired except for a "fun" race doreen or whoever, goaded him into, & you want to take away all his gold medals ?
i think there were a number of nandrolone +ve's in the late 90's that i consider highly dubious, linfords being probably the most high profile. i wouldn't rule out him being on PED throughout his career but i am very sceptical he was on anything when caught.
thank god it's not my job to clear this mess up but something serious has to be done asap
I've been looking back at the start lists of the USATF women's 100 and 200 finals from the period 1999 thru 2004. What a pathetic sight. Angela Williams has more reason than anyone to be bitter when she looks back and wonders what might have been.
US athletes track record in women's sprinting speaks for itself: Christie Gaines, Kelli White, Torri Edwards, Marion Jones, Inger Miller, Latasha Jenkins... all the big name US sprinters from the late 90's to the 00's, all have failed a test for something or have since admitted doping.
Could the casual viewer be blamed for thinking that to get into the US womens sprint team you need to dope?
I cannot get enthusiastic about AF and SR. I'm not accusing them, but they really have to deliver and not let us down. The amount of times we heard that crap about Gatlin "oh, he's such a b reath of fresh air" - what b0ll0cks!
Andrea_T wrote: I cannot get enthusiastic about AF and SR. I'm not accusing them, but they really have to deliver and not let us down. The amount of times we heard that crap about Gatlin "oh, he's such a b reath of fresh air" - what b0ll0cks!
Unfortunately this statement is true for all athletes nowadays, not just US women sprinters.
"...US athletes track record in women's sprinting speaks for itself: Christie Gaines, Kelli White, Torri Edwards, Marion Jones, Inger Miller, Latasha Jenkins... all the big name US sprinters from the late 90's to the 00's, all have failed a test for something or have since admitted doping.."
Not exactly all- Lauryn Williams, Allyson Felix , Carmelita Jeter, LaTasha Colander, Rachelle (Boone) Smith, and Sanya Richards are pretty quick.
bijanc wrote:"...US athletes track record in women's sprinting speaks for itself: Christie Gaines, Kelli White, Torri Edwards, Marion Jones, Inger Miller, Latasha Jenkins... all the big name US sprinters from the late 90's to the 00's, all have failed a test for something or have since admitted doping.."
Not exactly all- Lauryn Williams, Allyson Felix , Carmelita Jeter, LaTasha Colander, Rachelle (Boone) Smith, and Sanya Richards are pretty quick.
BCB
Did you actually read his post. Not only was he referring to the late 90's early '00 crop of sprinters but specifically mentioned the fact that we have no reason to suspect AF and SR.
