Graham: Why?


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Graham: Why?

Postby Peter Michaelson » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:42 am

Forgive me if this has been covered in another thread: Any theories why Trevor Graham sent the syringe of "the clear"to the authorities? How could he not figure that this would come back and bite him and his athletes in the glutes?
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Postby guru » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:44 am

It has been asked a few times here. I think we can all agree it's the biggest mystery in this whole sordid mess. He looks to be losing the most when it's all said and done.
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Postby bad hammy » Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:54 am

My guess is that he is none too bright . . .
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Postby Kurt Francis » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:01 am

Guru:

I think this is a no-brainer. After the defections of Marion & Tim to Charlie Francis' camp, I think Trevor was both jealous & angry, and he decided some retribution was in order in the form of "anonymously" sending the syringe himself. I don't think he ever envisioned that he himself would get caught. That was his mistake.

guru wrote:It has been asked a few times here. I think we can all agree it's the biggest mystery in this whole sordid mess. He looks to be losing the most when it's all said and done.
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Postby guru » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:04 am

Graham's website is "under construction" lol.

http://www.sprintcapitolusa.com/
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Postby EPelle » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:21 am

Simple answer: Turf war. Conte was on top of the totem poll, Sprint Capitol was attempting to make its way up.

Graham reached USADA:s media representative, Rich Wanniner, on his own accord and informed him that Conte was producing an undetectable PED and distributing it to elite athletes. Graham identified by name several elite American and international track and field taking Conte:s products -- though none of them, as per Graham, were part of Sprint Capitol (a bold faced lie later discovered).

Catlin received the THG-filled syringe eight days after the contact with Wanniner, that is to say on 2003-june-13.
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Postby guru » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:25 am

That's all well and good Epelle, but Graham was USING the product. Did he really think he would have no personal repercussions once investigations commenced?
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Postby EPelle » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:36 am

Did he think whatsoever? He asked his son what to do with the syringe prior to turning it over.
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Postby Peter Michaelson » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:48 am

Thanks for the answers given. Also, in Marion's letter, she says when the federal agents showed her "the clear" she immediatedly recognized it as the "flaxseed oil" that Trevor Graham had been giving her since 1999. I thought that "the clear"was, um, in fact a clear liquid. Has anyone on this board seen the product? Is there anything to distinguish it appearance-wise from, say, water?
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Postby EPelle » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:51 am

I:ve learned from one athlete that they used a needleless syringe filled with the a pale yellow-coloured clear under their tongue on an average of every second day.
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Postby mrbowie » Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:19 am

I take a flaxseen oil pill every morning. It may be clear, but it has a golden hue.
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Postby tafnut » Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:54 am

mrbowie wrote:I take a flaxseen oil pill every morning. It may be clear, but it has a golden hue.

The lying is PANDEMIC now??!! Has Marion's deceit infected EVERYONE? Will we see a video of Mr. Bowie in tearful denial of his drug problem? Is the T&FN MB infected as well? Will we ALL be taking 'flaxseed oil pills' soon? Oh, woe is me!
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Postby guru » Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:30 am

One good thing that has come from all this is Flaxseed getting publicity. I didn't realize how many benefits it has. I'm getting a bottle next time I'm at the store.

http://ga.essortment.com/whatisflaxsee_pfy.htm
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Postby SQUACKEE » Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:53 am

guru wrote:One good thing that has come from all this is Flaxseed getting publicity. I didn't realize how many benefits it has. I'm getting a bottle next time I'm at the store.

http://ga.essortment.com/whatisflaxsee_pfy.htm



OH MY GOD GURU! I went to my local flax seed oil outlet as i always do every sat. and the idiot gave me The Clear by mistake! Ahhhhh! ahhh! oh .... ahhhhh :P
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Postby tafnut » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:22 pm

guru wrote:One good thing that has come from all this is Flaxseed getting publicity. I didn't realize how many benefits it has. I'm getting a bottle next time I'm at the store.
http://ga.essortment.com/whatisflaxsee_pfy.htm

We're gonna hafta get pego's opinion on this. Looks like snake oil. The claims are that it fights

- cholesterol

- strokes, heart attacks and thromboses.

- high blood pressure

- inflammation

- water retention

- sticky platelets

- lowered immune function

- liver disease

- cancer

- Asthma

- Eczema, Psoriasis, and Dandruff

- Arthritis

- Diabetes

- allergies

- Atherosclerosis

- depression

- loss of mental function

- Multiple Sclerosis

- Schizophrenia

- PMS

and it

- Shortens recovery time for fatigued muscles after exertion.

- Increases the body's production of energy and also increases stamina.

- Accelerates the healing of sprains and bruises.

- Eases weight loss in people afflicted with obesity.

- Stimulates brown fat cells and increases the metabolic rate making it easier to burn off fat.

- Improves the absorption of Calcium.

- Strengthens finger and toenails.

- Can improve eyesight and perception of colors.

*****************

I guess the only question is - does it fight Erectile Dysfunction (which is apparently the #1 health problem in America, judging by the spam I get), and does it do windows?
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Postby bad hammy » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:28 pm

Damn, I have just about every one of those things (the PMS is the worst!) I'm buying a case of flaxseed oil today . . .
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Postby SQUACKEE » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:40 pm

I gots beer, coffee and aspirin! Im all good. All legal to boot ! You can take yer flax seed and......
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Postby vaultman » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:40 pm

guru wrote:
One good thing that has come from all this is Flaxseed getting publicity. I didn't realize how many benefits it has. I'm getting a bottle next time I'm at the store.
http://ga.essortment.com/whatisflaxsee_pfy.htm

We're gonna hafta get pego's opinion on this. Looks like snake oil. The claims are that it fights

- cholesterol

- strokes, heart attacks and thromboses.

- high blood pressure

- inflammation

- water retention

- sticky platelets

- lowered immune function

- liver disease

- cancer

- Asthma

- Eczema, Psoriasis, and Dandruff

- Arthritis

- Diabetes

- allergies

- Atherosclerosis

- depression

- loss of mental function

- Multiple Sclerosis

- Schizophrenia

- PMS

and it

- Shortens recovery time for fatigued muscles after exertion.

- Increases the body's production of energy and also increases stamina.

- Accelerates the healing of sprains and bruises.

- Eases weight loss in people afflicted with obesity.

- Stimulates brown fat cells and increases the metabolic rate making it easier to burn off fat.

- Improves the absorption of Calcium.

- Strengthens finger and toenails.

- Can improve eyesight and perception of colors.

*****************

I guess the only question is - does it fight Erectile Dysfunction (which is apparently the #1 health problem in America, judging by the spam I get), and does it do windows?


Why do you think it is "snake oil"? It is a mistake to discredit natural healing products. People blow off natural products but have no problem taking perscription meds (which are crap they may help one symptom but cause 10 others, what a joke) I don't know anything about flaxseed oil but I do think it is obtuse to trivialize it because you don't know what it is.
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Postby guru » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:42 pm

I was/am serious.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:43 pm

[quote="vaultman

?[/quote]

Why do you think it is "snake oil"? It is a mistake to discredit natural healing products. People blow off natural products but have no problem taking perscription meds (which are crap they may help one symptom but cause 10 others, what a joke) I don't know anything about flaxseed oil but I do think it is obtuse to trivialize it because you don't know what it is.[/quote]

If it sounds too good to be true it probably is. Hasn't failed me yet.
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Postby tafnut » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:49 pm

vaultman wrote:Why do you think it is "snake oil"? It is a mistake to discredit natural healing products. People blow off natural products but have no problem taking perscription meds (which are crap they may help one symptom but cause 10 others, what a joke) I don't know anything about flaxseed oil but I do think it is obtuse to trivialize it because you don't know what it is.

pego has continuously warned us about 'miracle' supplements. Look at everything it claims to help - that's a red flag if I've ever seen one!
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Postby bad hammy » Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:11 pm

vaultman wrote:Why do you think it is "snake oil"? It is a mistake to discredit natural healing products. People blow off natural products but have no problem taking perscription meds (which are crap they may help one symptom but cause 10 others, what a joke) I don't know anything about flaxseed oil but I do think it is obtuse to trivialize it because you don't know what it is.

Note the three main uses:
    Nutritional supplement
    Paint binder
    Wood finish
And don't miss (I'm not kidding) the spontaneous combustion . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaxseed_oil
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Postby vaultman » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:59 pm

Note the three main uses:

Nutritional supplement
Paint binder
Wood finish

And don't miss (I'm not kidding) the spontaneous combustion . . .


Very useful natural resource I'd say. What is in perscription meds that are supposed to do the same things? I am in no way an all natural way of life "tree hugger" although I do like trees. But I also can't stand big pharmaceutical companies that make all sorts of $h!t that end up causing something else to go wrong all the while making it seem that something like flaxseed oil is a "snake oil". It is amazing to me that people think the only way to treat their high cholesterol, high blood pressure, depression, asthma, diabetes or heart disease is to take perscription meds.

As for what "Clear" actually looks like I have no idea. Taf I don't think you are obtuse by the way. Your alright by me I still owe you one.
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Postby bad hammy » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:11 pm

vaultman wrote:But I also can't stand big pharmaceutical companies that make all sorts of $h!t that end up causing something else to go wrong all the while making it seem that something like flaxseed oil is a "snake oil".

We know that drugs, which can be highly effective, also have side effects. I do try to avoid those with the 'spontaneous combustion' side effect! :lol:
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Postby MJR » Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:18 pm

The worst thing in the whole Graham scenario is the effect on his son TJ, a top level Jr sprinter and very good football player too. The news I have, is that he has stopped coming to football practice and was kicked off the team as a result. Its always a shame when you are stuck with an A-hole for a father.
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Postby eldrick » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:13 pm

EPelle wrote:Simple answer: Turf war. Conte was on top of the totem poll, Sprint Capitol was attempting to make its way up


i've never read anywhere that conte was a sprint coach or had any ambitions to be such ???
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Postby Coureur » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:34 pm

vaultman wrote:
guru wrote:
Why do you think it is "snake oil"? It is a mistake to discredit natural healing products. People blow off natural products but have no problem taking perscription meds (which are crap they may help one symptom but cause 10 others, what a joke) I don't know anything about flaxseed oil but I do think it is obtuse to trivialize it because you don't know what it is.


A true wonder drug is something like aspirin, which can do about three different things. One of the hallmarks of "snake oil" and other fake cures is that they are touted to treated a dozen or more conditions.

When you see some nostrum that supposedly can cure a long and disparate list of conditions, run the other way. There is no such thing as a drug that can do all that. Save your money.

Another red flag is when the stuff is being peddled based on a bunch of testimonials instead of large and well-controlled clinical trials that are published in peer-reviewed journals. There is no treatment so absurd, say rubbing monkey dung on your head under the light of a full moon, that you can't find some people somewhere who will swear that it worked wonders for them.
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Postby EPelle » Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:25 pm

eldrick wrote:
EPelle wrote:Simple answer: Turf war. Conte was on top of the totem poll, Sprint Capitol was attempting to make its way up


i've never read anywhere that conte was a sprint coach or had any ambitions to be such ???

I find it sad and pathetic that you:ve aged and died on this subject in a state of being contrary for f_cks sake, rather than living on by having taken a bit of smarts with you. You find nothing else over which to be argumentative so you:ve now resorted to this, and want to chalk it up as being a part of discourse? Your having mentioned only the first part of the statement I made says enough. There:s no use explaining the Conte piece here to you, as you:ve read it (and a thousand others) a thousand times already and have each time gone to the same old ploy, saying the same old _____ .
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Postby eldrick » Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:59 am

eh ?

you posting nonsense as usual & not expecting to get brought up on it ???

i've never read anywhere conte was applying for a coaching license & about to set up his own training camp, nor that trevor was about to set up a pharmaceutical manufacturing company

they were involved in separate lines of business - one a dealer, 1 a coach

as for conte's business scheme at the time,i suggest you read drug-dealing 101 :

"you sell as much dope to as many people as possible, as long as they are not cops"
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Postby Friar » Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:35 am

Graham clearly wanted Balco take some immediate heat from USADA. It had to be about short-term money, rather than athletes and coaching.
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Postby EPelle » Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:18 am

eldrick wrote:eh ?

you posting nonsense as usual & not expecting to get brought up on it ???

i've never read anywhere conte was applying for a coaching license & about to set up his own training camp, nor that trevor was about to set up a pharmaceutical manufacturing company

they were involved in separate lines of business - one a dealer, 1 a coach

as for conte's business scheme at the time,i suggest you read drug-dealing 101 :

"you sell as much dope to as many people as possible, as long as they are not cops"

You just don:t get it. Forget it.
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Postby eldrick » Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:30 am

friar gets my point

i assume he doesn't "get" your point

in fact, i'd luv to know anyone who does ?!
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Postby EPelle » Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:34 am

Friar wrote:"Graham clearly wanted Balco take some immediate heat from USADA."

Friar and I are stating the same thing.

eldrick, you HONESTLY don:t want to open a can of worms here by asking such a question. If someone wants to indulge you on your request, so be it.
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Postby eldrick » Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:40 am

what same "turf war" has friar agreed upon with you ???

as pointed out, conte had never stated any intention of ever setting up a sprint camp, so the only "turf war" graham woud ever have been in wouda been with likes of john smith, steve riddick, remi & maybe even clyde hart for the best sprint talent in america & carib to join his camp rather than the others

where your nonsense that victor & trevor were ever directly competing in a "turf war" comes from, i have no idea ?!
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Postby EPelle » Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:46 am

1. Conte:s own mouth in explicit terms with the ESPN the Magazine.

2. ZMA Track Club was alive and well. The members of that club you:re welcomed to look up.

Cut your crap, your back-and-forth nonsense and your losses now, eldrick. Save yourself the further embarassment.

Shall one really open the door to your previous statements? Any of them?
Last edited by EPelle on Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby eldrick » Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:52 am

EPelle wrote:1. Conte:s own mouth in explicit terms with the ESPN the Magazine


where does he state he had coaching ambitions ???

2. ZMA Track Club (Marion Jones, Chryste Gaines, Kelli White, Ramon Clay and Tim Montgomery) was alive and well.


he supplied them with nutritional supplements which they endorsed & on open sale to the public - a publicity step to boost sales of freely available supplements

where does that lead onto him coaching them & setting up his own coaching camp ???

Cut your crap, your back-and-forth nonesense and your losses now, eldrick. Save yourself the embarassment.


ehh ???

you quote nonsense about "turf war" which it appears you don't even have a clue the meanin of & now you are running around like a headless chicken having been picked up on it ?!
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Postby EPelle » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:02 am

You mentioned coaching ambitions. You deal with it.

I mentioned turf war. That was a top-of-the-totem-poll battle between two men who were trying to get athletes they were doping at the top of the game, Olympic and/or world champions, and preferential treatment in European meets.

Conte states that seven black cars rushed into the parking lot at the BALCO site, and 26 IRS and San Mateo Narcotics Task Force agents “in flak jackets [came] pouring out, screaming and waving guns. A helicopter hovering overhead. A half-dozen news trucks filming it all. They were using a tank to kill a mosquito.”

Why, Conte asks?

“For a turf war. The feds stumbled into a turf war.”

Conte furthered those sentiments with the TimesOnline:

“It was a complete inside job. Believe me, the doping officials would never have figured that out themselves. This was like East-West Coast gang warfare where they did a drive-by shooting. They realised that they couldn’t compete on the track and the only way for them to win was to turn me in.”


eldrick, I:m done with your back-and-forth crap, so you can take issue with this with yourself for reasons obvious. How deeply do you intend on burying yourself with your irrational, contrary, trollable sh_t here?
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Postby eldrick » Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:14 am

for a large armed assault team to turn up & pointing high-powered rifles everywhere, & for conte to babble "turf war" under these circumstances meaningless

"turf war" ???

he was supplying drugs to anyone who wanted them - that is the business of a drug-dealer

for a "turf war" you need a competing drug dealer trying to supply their drugs to same/other clients

who do you suppose he was competing in drug-sales with ?

the medelin cartel ???
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Postby vaultman » Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:35 pm

A true wonder drug is something like aspirin, which can do about three different things. One of the hallmarks of "snake oil" and other fake cures is that they are touted to treated a dozen or more conditions.

When you see some nostrum that supposedly can cure a long and disparate list of conditions, run the other way. There is no such thing as a drug that can do all that. Save your money.

Another red flag is when the stuff is being peddled based on a bunch of testimonials instead of large and well-controlled clinical trials that are published in peer-reviewed journals. There is no treatment so absurd, say rubbing monkey dung on your head under the light of a full moon, that you can't find some people somewhere who will swear that it worked wonders for them.


Flaxseed oil is not a drug it would fall under suplement. It doesn't have to be a cure to be effective. Most ailments can be cured with natural suplements or proper diet and exercise. Yet people are so caught-up in the lies of drug companies and the special interest they control. It is all about money not health.

We know that drugs, which can be highly effective, also have side effects. I do try to avoid those with the 'spontaneous combustion' side effect!


Look into all the the ingrediants of the thousands of perscription meds. Are you a doctor? If you are you have to say drugs are better if you are not you are like most other people completely in the dark. I try to avoid all meds that make me have diarrhea or constipation, causes impotence, numbs my body or brain or completely wipes out my immune system which covers almost all perscription meds.
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