jazzcyclist wrote:Kelli White gave the most candid and contrite interview of any doper I've ever seen. I believe that her confession is what actually did her in since, the IAAF didn't actually have the goods to ban her without the confession. She never pretended that she didn't know what she was taking and you actually got the sense that her conscious was tormenting her the whole time she was doping, which probably explains why she didn't dope for very long. With Jones, I get the impression that she only admitted to what was expedient for her legal predicament. I get no sense that she struggled with the decision to dope while she was actually doping.
I seem to recall David Miller doing the confession. I think he said that he actually left the syringes out (and there as investigation into the team in the several days/raiding houses). He said he just did not like the feeling of having won the Worlds (ITT) by cheating. He has done OK since but not great.
If Jones is serious about redemption, her first order of business should be returning the pieces of gold without being asked. This is harsh, I know, but she should remember that the pursuit of gold tempted her to run a race that she couldn’t win.
I have the feeling Marion is going to have trouble turning in the Gold. Maybe a nebulous statement like 'I've been assured they are in a safe place but I'm not aware of their location', will suffice.
I've been wondering about this business of drops under the tongue. Yes, nitro for the heart, and a few other meds are given this way, but it is not common at all. Some medicines are dispensed in chewing gum, and coke users do gummers sometimes. But in general, absorption in the mouth is not a common way to give steroids, so far as I've ever heard.
On the other hand, we know the clear came in a syringe, or at least that's the form it was sent by VC to the authorities. I wonder if she was instead injecting under the tongue. I've heard heroin users inject there to hide the tracks (until those vessels collapse), then move on to places like between the toes. Hmmm. Most of the injected steroids I've ever heard of were injected into muscle mass, though, not directly into the bloodstream.
This whole "under the tongue" thing sounds weird, and I wonder if our docs might comment on it.
cacique wrote:there'll be quite some re-arranging in the medals stand, not just in sydney 2000, a quick look at the tables show that she medaled in the 1997 world champs, all the way to the world cup in 2002...
Her admission of guilt only goes back to 1999, so unless I'm missing something, her performances in '97 and '98 can't be stricken.
Nor can her 1999 performances. The IAAF statute of limitations on admissions is 8 years.
eldrick wrote:someone kindly tell me why she has admitted to anything ?
Remember she was involved in a whole host of crimes, including the bank fraud thing. The Feds had the responsibility to determine her part in that crime, if any.
My guess she gets a 6 month minimum security gig in the federal pen and probation.
And my guess is that you're in the right ballpark. From what we've all read, it looks as if they had her cold on that check business. That could have been a serious sentence for money laundering, bank fraud, or something similar.
So they scare the shit out of her, offer her a very light fall in return for fessing up to doping and pointing the finger at Graham. I don't even know if she'll do real prison time. In her case, it hardly matters. She's been punished.
tjallen wrote:I've been wondering about this business of drops under the tongue. Yes, nitro for the heart, and a few other meds are given this way, but it is not common at all. Some medicines are dispensed in chewing gum, and coke users do gummers sometimes. But in general, absorption in the mouth is not a common way to give steroids, so far as I've ever heard.
On the other hand, we know the clear came in a syringe, or at least that's the form it was sent by VC to the authorities. I wonder if she was instead injecting under the tongue. I've heard heroin users inject there to hide the tracks (until those vessels collapse), then move on to places like between the toes. Hmmm. Most of the injected steroids I've ever heard of were injected into muscle mass, though, not directly into the bloodstream.
This whole "under the tongue" thing sounds weird, and I wonder if our docs might comment on it.
tja
plenty of drugs are administered sub-lingually
the rational is that this route by-passes the liver & therefore doesn't get metabolised by it, as soon
some drugs are metabolised 95%+ by the liver when swallowed directly - this route may only get 20 or 30% metabolised
it's in effect to "preserve" the drug in the system
I find myself very discouraged by track becoming a sport where we can't count on the results of an event until after more than eight years. It's easy to understand the logic of changing past results based on new revelations, but it leaves us with a situation in which, after the race is run, we can only say that we know the winner "for now", pending revelations that could come many years hence.
Rewriting the past based on what we come to know later is a potentially endless process which undermines the enjoyment of competition in the present. I'm not suggesting that past results therefore not be changed, only that we're in a situation now that robs us of one of our most fundamental enjoyments of the sport -- the decisiveness of competition, putting it all on the line when the gun goes off, the winner is the one who gets to the finish line first. Losing this is a very big loss.
if she's admitting to use in 2001 then there are some rather unfortunate medallists !!!
in 100 thanou moves up to silver and MJ training partner gets chandra stirrup gets bronze. thanou has served a ban and it's best i don;t comment on block who won the race but say they are taken out the equation we move to chrste gains in 5 to medal !!!
in the 200 debbie feguson is now WC but kelli white moves up to silver (has this already been takena way ??) and latasha jenkins gets bronze !!!!
3 of the top 4 (All USA) are convicted or have admitted drug use !!!
mump boy wrote:if she's admitting to use in 2001 then there are some rather unfortunate medallists !!!
in 100 thanou moves up to silver and MJ training partner gets chandra stirrup gets bronze. thanou has served a ban and it's best i don;t comment on block who won the race but say they are taken out the equation we move to chrste gains in 5 to medal !!!
in the 200 debbie feguson is now WC but kelli white moves up to silver (has this already been takena way ??) and latasha jenkins gets bronze !!!!
3 of the top 4 (All USA) are convicted or have admitted drug use !!!
White has been DSQ'ed anyway. It would mean Cydonie Mothersill would have got the bronze medal.
Also, it would be that Pauline Davis should become double Olympic champion in her fifth Olympics! Bahamas would have a double gold with Ferguson 'winning' in 2001.
jazzcyclist wrote:Kelli White gave the most candid and contrite interview of any doper I've ever seen. I believe that her confession is what actually did her in since, the IAAF didn't actually have the goods to ban her without the confession. She never pretended that she didn't know what she was taking and you actually got the sense that her conscious was tormenting her the whole time she was doping, which probably explains why she didn't dope for very long. With Jones, I get the impression that she only admitted to what was expedient for her legal predicament. I get no sense that she struggled with the decision to dope while she was actually doping.
I seem to recall David Miller doing the confession. I think he said that he actually left the syringes out (and there as investigation into the team in the several days/raiding houses). He said he just did not like the feeling of having won the Worlds (ITT) by cheating. He has done OK since but not great.
Millar did not tell all. He went from beating Armstrong in a Tour tt, in his debut, and winning worlds, to 19th in the worlds tt this year. Vast difference. He won a tt last year in the Vuelta after coming back. I give him benefit of doubt now, because as one of the most talented (doped) tters, there is no way he could ride 19th with artificial aid. (sorry for hijacking)
jazzcyclist wrote:Kelli White gave the most candid and contrite interview of any doper I've ever seen. I believe that her confession is what actually did her in since, the IAAF didn't actually have the goods to ban her without the confession. She never pretended that she didn't know what she was taking and you actually got the sense that her conscious was tormenting her the whole time she was doping, which probably explains why she didn't dope for very long. With Jones, I get the impression that she only admitted to what was expedient for her legal predicament. I get no sense that she struggled with the decision to dope while she was actually doping.
Completely agree. I actually have some respect for Kelli (And Dwaine) who confessed to far more than they needed to and blamed nobody but themselves. They seemed genuinely sorry and apologetic when they could very easily have just continued denying everything like most cheats do.
Marion on the other hand has admitted the very minimum having been forced to by the courts. Truly pathetic woman who's sorry arsed coursteps statement made me cringe. Was it just me or did she not actually mention drug use one?
I can't believe some people are feeling sorry for her
I am Marion Jones-Thompson, and I am here today, because I have something very important to tell you, my fans, my friends and my family.
Over the many years of my life, as an athlete in the sport of track and field, you have been fiercely loyal and supportive towards me. Even more loyal and supportive than words can declare has been my family – and especially my dear mother who stands by my side today.
And so it is with a great amount of shame that I stand before you and tell you that I have betrayed your trust.
I want all of you to know that today I plead guilty to two counts of making false statements to federal agents. Making false statements to these agents was an incredibly stupid thing for me to do, and I am responsible fully for my actions. I have no one to blame but myself for what I have done.
To you, my fans – including my young supporters, the United States Track & Field Association, my closest friends, my attorneys, and the most-classy family a person could ever hope for, namely my mother, my husband, my children, my brother and his family, my uncle, and the rest of my extended family – I want you to know that I have been dishonest. And you have the right to be angry with me. I have let them down, I have let my country down, and I have let myself down.
I recognise that by saying ‘I am deeply sorry’, it might not be enough and sufficient to address the pain and the hurt that I have caused you. Therefore, I want to ask for your forgiveness for my actions, and I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me.
I have asked Almighty God for my forgiveness.
Having said this, and because of my actions, I am retiring from the sport of track and field – a sport which I deeply love.
I promise that these events will be used to make the lives of many people improved – that by making the wrong choices and bad decisions can be disastrous.
Matt wrote:Only this week I have read dozens of posts from people eulogising a 'great' athlete who was known for years within US track and field circles as having been a steroid user (and for suffering from the ensuing health problems). There are very few 'amazing' performances that are not drug assisted......
Interesting, But in his time they weren't illegal, where they?
Carl Lewis just said on NBC that they have to get these frauds under oath. That is what I always have been saying. The whole Dubin thing. Basically how they got MJ. Now they should put a few of those ridiculous ballplayers in jail that lied under oath to congress. And I swore that I wouldn't go bump crazy but this is funny:
"I don't think much will come of this as I don't think the various levels of US government don't want to see how termite infested the house is(the level of drug usage in all sports)."
Matt wrote:Only this week I have read dozens of posts from people eulogising a 'great' athlete who was known for years within US track and field circles as having been a steroid user (and for suffering from the ensuing health problems). There are very few 'amazing' performances that are not drug assisted......
Interesting, But in his time they weren't illegal, where they?
Not in 1968, but they were banned long before 1980.
Law dude wrote:The IAAF statute of limitations on admissions is 8 years.
Ridiculous and embarassing.
Last time I checked, around these parts every crime on the books has a statute of limitation (seven years or less) except murder. So you are suggesting that we put PED use on the same level as murder? THAT sounds kind of ridiculous . . .
(And didn't you recently find a spell checker in your browser? Not using it can be kind of 'embarassing'. )
bad hammy wrote:Last time I checked, around these parts every crime on the books has a statute of limitation (seven years or less) except murder. So you are suggesting that we put PED use on the same level as murder? THAT sounds kind of ridiculous
Ask that Cuban who showed some poster around here his minor medal from 50 years earlier what he would think about the issue.
Jaack wrote:Pauline Davis Thompson is the Olympic champion!!!
She arrived at Sydney at the age of 34, dropping from the 400m to the 200m - she took. 2 off her PB of 8 years, then another to place second in the final BEHIND MJ!
At 34, the oldest sprint champion in the history of the sport(?)! Pauline Davis Thompson- What a legend.
What'll be interesting is the first interview she does? Will she admit just the bare minimum a la Pete Rose or will she tell all a la Jose Canseco? Remember, Canseco says that he would have never made it to the Majors without PED's, not to mention become an MVP. Rose, on the other hand, initially denied betting at all. Then he admitted betting on sports other than baseball. Later on he admitted betting on baseball, but not Reds games. Then he admitted betting on Reds games but never against the Reds, which still contradicts the facts and evidence contained in the Dowd report.
Last edited by jazzcyclist on Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
but kelli white moves up to silver (has this already been takena way ??) and latasha jenkins gets bronze !!!!
