Will Communism survive in Cuba after Castro's death ?


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Will Communism survive in Cuba after Castro's death ?

Postby eldrick » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:23 am

Or will it revert to a democracy in due course ?
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Postby tandfman » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:23 am

My guess would be the latter. It won't happen the next day, but I think it will happen within a decade.

(Another guess, by the way, is that your question and my answer would have survived on this Board yesterday or tomorrow. Where other posters may take this thread later today is another matter.)
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Postby gh » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:33 am

You are correct....... our ban on "politics" has always been enforced as it relates to partisan politics. This item I would place under the rubric of "world affairs" at this point.
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Re: Will Communism survive in Cuba after Castro's death ?

Postby BruceFlorman » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:39 am

eldrick wrote:Or will it revert to a democracy in due course ?

Revert? Has Cuba ever been a real democracy in the sense of having a government (at least somewhat) answerable to the general populace?

Whether or not Cuba becomes a "democracy" in name over the short term will depend on which strongman eventually succeeds Castro and which foreign sponsors he chooses to court. But a real democracy won't appear there (or anywhere else in the world) until there is a strong enough middle class to demand it. At the moment, I don't think the Cuban middle class is anywhere near large enough to do so, but I'm no expert on Cuban economics.
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Postby eldrick » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:39 am

i'm probably more interested in how it affects their sporting prowess

i think the govt does put significant money/effort into it & i'm wondering when castro dies, whether the new regime will put so much emphasise on it ?
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Re: Will Communism survive in Cuba after Castro's death ?

Postby malmo » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:52 am

eldrick wrote:Or will it revert to a democracy in due course ?


No. Cuba makes too much money licensing Che Guevara T-shirts.
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Re: Will Communism survive in Cuba after Castro's death ?

Postby prongs » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:08 pm

eldrick wrote:Or will it revert to a democracy in due course ?
as long as they produce another sotomayor who cares?
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Re: Will Communism survive in Cuba after Castro's death ?

Postby malmo » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:37 pm

prongs wrote:
eldrick wrote:Or will it revert to a democracy in due course ?
as long as they produce another sotomayor who cares?


As long as you never see people risking their lives to float from Florida to Cuba, millions care.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:45 pm

My step son declared he was a commie at age 19. I said of course your a commie you dont have anything and you dont work. The idea of rich people sucks to someone who sleeps till noon. He now works and yells at his friends who mess up his new car. And so it goes........
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Postby malmo » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:07 pm

SQUACKEE wrote:My step son declared he was a commie at age 19. I said of course your a commie you dont have anything and you dont work. The idea of rich people sucks to someone who sleeps till noon. He now works and yells at his friends who mess up his new car. And so it goes........


Most Volvo-driving trustafarians are "Commies." How could that be?
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Re: Will Communism survive in Cuba after Castro's death ?

Postby prongs » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:08 pm

malmo wrote:
prongs wrote:
eldrick wrote:Or will it revert to a democracy in due course ?
as long as they produce another sotomayor who cares?


As long as you never see people risking their lives to float from Florida to Cuba, millions care.
sucks for those millions. by who i more ment do i care.
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Postby tandfman » Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:23 pm

SQUACKEE wrote:My step son declared he was a commie at age 19. I said of course your a commie you dont have anything and you dont work. The idea of rich people sucks to someone who sleeps till noon. He now works and yells at his friends who mess up his new car. And so it goes........

There's an old saying that I've seen attributed to a number of sources; it goes something like this: Anyone who is not a Socialist at age 20 has no heart; anyone who is still a Socialist at age 40 has no brain.
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Postby richxx87 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:23 pm

There have been a ton of variations on that quote, many attributed to Winston Churchill.....
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5952/unquote.html
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Postby richxx87 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:42 pm

My guess on Cuba is that it will go the way of Vietnam, i.e. still nominally "Communist" but more and more into free market globalization.

One interesting facet of this discussion is the talk of "democracy OR communism." Of course, a real Marxian Communist society would, by definition, be extremely democratic - if, by democratic we mean that every citizen, no matter how poor or uneducated has a voice and the power to change things. One of the most "democratic" societies the world has ever had was "Democratic Kampuchea" in the late 1970s (known to joe sixpack as the Khmer Rouge). That was a true democracy in every sense of the word, they weren't just playing games by giving it that name. Of course, the World Powers (both East bloc and West bloc) couldn't have that. The history of the DK has been written by Western democracies, who were terrified of the egalitarian nature of the fully democratic movement/government and the Soviet Lenin/Stalinists loved their elite totalitarianism too much to allow a truly communist society to exist.

MOST of what people know about the DK is from the gov't-sponsored hollywood fantasy tale, "The Killing Fields". I've asked Kissinger point blank, and he agreed/confirmed all of the above. He was instrumental in getting the Soviets on side as well to demonize the DK and support Soviet-backed Vietnam's blitzkrieg in 1979... The current leader of Cambodia is none other than Hun Sen, who became a traitor to DK, ran away to Hanoi and became a Vietnamese puppet.

Now, I've gone off topic a bit, but Cuba will end up like Vietnam and sporting prowess will all depend on if the leader is pro-sports and wants to emphasize that or not.
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Postby malmo » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:34 pm

richxx87 wrote:My guess on Cuba is that it will go the way of Vietnam, i.e. still nominally "Communist" but more and more into free market globalization.

One interesting facet of this discussion is the talk of "democracy OR communism." Of course, a real Marxian Communist society would, by definition, be extremely democratic - if, by democratic we mean that every citizen, no matter how poor or uneducated has a voice and the power to change things. One of the most "democratic" societies the world has ever had was "Democratic Kampuchea" in the late 1970s (known to joe sixpack as the Khmer Rouge). That was a true democracy in every sense of the word, they weren't just playing games by giving it that name. Of course, the World Powers (both East bloc and West bloc) couldn't have that. The history of the DK has been written by Western democracies, who were terrified of the egalitarian nature of the fully democratic movement/government and the Soviet Lenin/Stalinists loved their elite totalitarianism too much to allow a truly communist society to exist.

MOST of what people know about the DK is from the gov't-sponsored hollywood fantasy tale, "The Killing Fields". I've asked Kissinger point blank, and he agreed/confirmed all of the above. He was instrumental in getting the Soviets on side as well to demonize the DK and support Soviet-backed Vietnam's blitzkrieg in 1979... The current leader of Cambodia is none other than Hun Sen, who became a traitor to DK, ran away to Hanoi and became a Vietnamese puppet.

Now, I've gone off topic a bit, but Cuba will end up like Vietnam and sporting prowess will all depend on if the leader is pro-sports and wants to emphasize that or not.


Yours is one of the most disturbing and vulgar posts I've ever seen. The Khmer Rouge was not a Hollywood tale, it was one of the most horrific examples of man's inhumanity in recorded history.
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Postby richxx87 » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:59 pm

Well malmo, sorry to hear you think in such a way. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a communist or communist sympathizer, and more than that, I don't care one iota who is or who claims to be. I'm also not saying that the DK system was good or ever had a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding.

One of the hardest things to do for most humans is to step outside of their belief system and pose hard questions that might have answers that contradict everything you've always wanted to believe, or have been taught by people you trust; like your family, teachers and government.

Try living in Cambodia for 4 years (as I have), try speaking fluent Khmer (as I do), try asking some serious questions to people all over the country (as I have) and try doing some proper, completely objective, academic research on the subject (as I have). It could open your eyes, if you allow it. On the other hand, If you've met Cambodians, who've come to a Western country as refugees, you can bet your life that they will perpetuate the lie. When they were in the refugee camps in Thailand, the "ticket" to America and elsewhere was simple -- 'perpetuate the lie and everything will be taken care of.'
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Postby eldrick » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:20 am

reports are khmer rouge killed nearly 1 million people during their genocide

if anyone seriously believes they had any right to an existence on that basis...
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Postby eldrick » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:24 am

richxx87 wrote:My guess on Cuba is that it will go the way of Vietnam, i.e. still nominally "Communist" but more and more into free market globalization


possibly relevant here is that it's still pretty much a puppet of china ?

if/when china drops communism, i doubt vietnam woud remain communist for long - a democratic china woud probably demand an end to communism in vietnam if they wanted further aid/subsistence/trade
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Postby Helen S » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:04 am

eldrick wrote:reports are khmer rouge killed nearly 1 million people during their genocide

if anyone seriously believes they had any right to an existence on that basis...


What are the current casualty counts for the gulf wars we are involved in?
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Postby dukehjsteve » Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:19 pm

Our (US government) definition of "democracy" is any country that supports/agrees with us. Try Saudi Arabia, pre-Castro ( Batista) Cuba, Nicaragua, etc. etc. Oh, Viet Nam too. Great bunch of leaders over there prior to 1975.

Best example is pre-Khomeini Iran. As I always have said, prior to being run out of his own country,
"He may have been a bad Shah, but he was OUR Shah."
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