Somersault Long Jump


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Somersault Long Jump

Postby Jacksf » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:39 pm

I'm wondering why this new technique in the LJ was banned, yet at the same time, a new technique in the HJ, i.e., the flop, was allowed?
What was the reasoning?
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Re: Somersault Long Jump

Postby BisonHurdler » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:10 pm

Jacksf wrote:I'm wondering why this new technique in the LJ was banned, yet at the same time, a new technique in the HJ, i.e., the flop, was allowed?
What was the reasoning?




Safety, I'd assume.

It's a lot safer to land on your upper shoulders when you're landing on a mat vs. a pit of sand (if you happen to time the somersault wrong).
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Postby AS » Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:33 pm

That seems the logical answer to me.

As an aside, there is a ratehr humours post on Wikipedia about a British Game Show which included a comparable event:

Headlong dive
This event takes place on a long jump track and pit. Rather than landing feet first, contestants jump headlong; if their feet touch the sand, their effort is a no-jump. Iggy Singh (GB) holds the current sea level world record at 8.75m. Liam collins effort of 8.96m was deemed to be over the legal limit for wind speed (+2.6m/s)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internatio ... _of_Sports

The show does appear to have existed:

http://www.ukgameshows.com/page/index.p ... _of_Sports

I suspect this may have been discussed here before.
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Postby lonewolf » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:58 pm

A few jumpers flirted with the somersault jump about thirty years ago but ideally actually did a 360 and landed on their feet., hopefully with enought momentun to fall forward.. I know a few guys who tried it but I don't know any who improved on their PB with this technique.

Thankfully, it was outlawed for safety reasons.

This game seems to be a head long dive, presumably landing on their shoulders or extended arms and flipping forward, because if your feet touch the sand it is a "no jump", whatever that is.
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Postby Mennisco » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:34 am

lonewolf wrote:A few jumpers flirted with the somersault jump about thirty years ago but ideally actually did a 360 and landed on their feet., hopefully with enought momentun to fall forward.. I know a few guys who tried it but I don't know any who improved on their PB with this technique.

Thankfully, it was outlawed for safety reasons.

This game seems to be a head long dive, presumably landing on their shoulders or extended arms and flipping forward, because if your feet touch the sand it is a "no jump", whatever that is.


Wasn't there a Soviet guy who was trying this thing? And didn't Borzov have a "one handed crouch" that was outlawed?
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Postby Kevin Richardson » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:43 am

I must confess to having tried the somersault technique. I got only 9 feet from my personal best. I presume that it was due to a strong survival instinct on my part. Once I felt my hair grazing the ground during the jump, I decided that I needed to stop.

I recall that the farthest jumps mentioned in T&FN were on the order of 25'. I am doubtful that the laws of physics wold allow one to improve on their "conventional" PRs by using this technique, assuming that they lived to approach them. The "laws of Darwinism" would trump the "laws of Newton" almost assuredly! :lol:
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Postby lonewolf » Tue Feb 20, 2007 7:27 am

Kevin Richardson wrote: The "laws of Darwinism" would trump the "laws of Newton" almost assuredly! :lol:


Amen!
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Postby Conor Dary » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:01 am

Kevin Richardson wrote:I must confess to having tried the somersault technique. I got only 9 feet from my personal best. I presume that it was due to a strong survival instinct on my part. Once I felt my hair grazing the ground during the jump, I decided that I needed to stop.

I recall that the farthest jumps mentioned in T&FN were on the order of 25'. I am doubtful that the laws of physics wold allow one to improve on their "conventional" PRs by using this technique, assuming that they lived to approach them. The "laws of Darwinism" would trump the "laws of Newton" almost assuredly! :lol:


The somersault eliminates the need for the hitch-kick. When the jumper takes off he rotates. The hitch-kick, or its equivalent is to counter that rotation so the legs are extended forward at landing and increasing the jump. The somersault in theory accomplishes the same benefit of having the legs forward at landing. But of course, timing is everything. Landing on one's head will not lead to a very long jump. Or any more jumps for that matter.
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Postby Powell » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:18 am

AS wrote:That seems the logical answer to me.

As an aside, there is a ratehr humours post on Wikipedia about a British Game Show which included a comparable event:

Headlong dive
This event takes place on a long jump track and pit. Rather than landing feet first, contestants jump headlong; if their feet touch the sand, their effort is a no-jump. Iggy Singh (GB) holds the current sea level world record at 8.75m. Liam collins effort of 8.96m was deemed to be over the legal limit for wind speed (+2.6m/s)


Would this technique be considered illegal in a regular LJ competition?
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Postby dj » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:31 am

Not to hijack the thread, but on this game show listed above (http://www.ukgameshows.com/page/index.p ... _of_Sports) some of the other events were interesting, including one that's been discussed as an oddball t&f event, the 110m under hurdle:

Headlong dive
This event takes place on a long jump track and pit. Rather than landing feet first, contestants jump headlong; if their feet touch the sand, their effort is a no-jump. Iggy Singh (GB) holds the current sea level world record at 8.75m. Liam collins effort of 8.96m was deemed to be over the legal limit for wind speed (+2.6m/s)

Under hurdles
This event is identical to the 110 metres hurdles track event, except that the competitors must go under the horizontal bar of the hurdle instead of over it. This makes the event more difficult, and the times taken to complete the course are greater than standard hurdling times. International hurdler Liam Collins smashed the world record dipping his way to a staggering 19.62.

I couldn't find anything on Iggy Singh, but Tilastopaja Oy lists Liam Collins with the following PRs:

400 m
Outdoor 48.30 1 Loughborough 23 Apr 2005
Indoor 48.48 1 Cardiff 9 Feb 2003
60 m hurdles
Indoor 7.94 2h1 NC Birmingham 30 Jan 2000
110 m hurdles
Outdoor 14.05 1.7 4 Aqua-Pura Bedford 4 Jun 2000
400 m hurdles
Outdoor 50.30 5 NC Birmingham 14 Jul 2002

Here's another event, with a real athlete as the "WR" holder:

Speed-gun run
Contestants sprint down a twenty metre track; their speed is measured close to the end, just before they run into an upright crash mat. The current world record of 20.27 mph (32.62 km/h) is held by Hugo 'The Human Rhino' Mybergh (RSA).

Mybergh's PRs:

400 m
Outdoor 46.41A 1 Pretoria 27 Apr 1974
400 m hurdles
Outdoor 50.04A 1 Johannesburg 20 Apr 1974
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Postby tafnut » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:36 am

dj wrote:Speed-gun run
Contestants sprint down a twenty metre track; their speed is measured close to the end, just before they run into an upright crash mat.


They've already got this one at a lot of the televised indoor meets. I love all the inventive new ways they choose to 'crash'. One guy decided to jump up and hit it feet first, but caught a spike and ended up ignominiously on his head! Most do the half-jump, shoulder-first thing. Usually pretty funny.
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Postby Jacksf » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:44 am

I'm pretty sure I read about someone from the Univ of Washington (or maybe Oregon) who was fairly successful with the somersault LJ in the early 70's, and in fact improved his PB using this techinique.

Does anyone else remember/know about this?
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Postby dj » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:57 am

Jacksf wrote:I'm pretty sure I read about someone from the Univ of Washington (or maybe Oregon) who was fairly successful with the somersault LJ in the early 70's, and in fact improved his PB using this techinique.

Does anyone else remember/know about this?


John Delamere, Washington State. Jenner also played with it until it was banned.
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Postby lonewolf » Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:41 am

Powell wrote:
AS wrote:That seems the logical answer to me.

As an aside, there is a ratehr humours post on Wikipedia about a British Game Show which included a comparable event:

Headlong dive
This event takes place on a long jump track and pit. Rather than landing feet first, contestants jump headlong; if their feet touch the sand, their effort is a no-jump. Iggy Singh (GB) holds the current sea level world record at 8.75m. Liam collins effort of 8.96m was deemed to be over the legal limit for wind speed (+2.6m/s)


Would this technique be considered illegal in a regular LJ competition?


The rules only prohibit "somersaulting". Occasionaly we see some pretty out of control landings but still within in the pit. I would simply measure the impression in the sand closest to the takeoff line.
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Postby lonewolf » Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:46 am

I know a college coach, a very athletic guy, who was a national class long jumper in the brief somesault era. He said he tried it a few time, was instantly transformed from a 26'+ jumper to a 23' jumper. He said he was never personally concerned about the danger for himself but had reservations about just anybody trying it.
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Postby Kevin Richardson » Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:14 am

Wihtout doing a rigorous analysis of it, it seems to me that the tumbling motion would adversely affect the center of mass of the jumper. I also get the feeling that it translating the horizontal energy into the rotating energy would impact efficiency. It is difficult enough to push upward properly to attain the proper height for a long jump without having to worry about speed of rotation.
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Postby ppalmer » Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:19 am

Mennisco wrote:
lonewolf wrote:A few jumpers flirted with the somersault jump about thirty years ago but ideally actually did a 360 and landed on their feet., hopefully with enought momentun to fall forward.. I know a few guys who tried it but I don't know any who improved on their PB with this technique.

Thankfully, it was outlawed for safety reasons.

This game seems to be a head long dive, presumably landing on their shoulders or extended arms and flipping forward, because if your feet touch the sand it is a "no jump", whatever that is.


Wasn't there a Soviet guy who was trying this thing? And didn't Borzov have a "one handed crouch" that was outlawed?


re Borzov: Yes. It was because he had some kind of hand or wrist injury. I guess some of the guys thought he was getting away with false starts with what he was doing. The rule (IAAF and USATF, not NCAA) was changed to what it now is: both hands must be in contact with the track unless prevented by a permanent disability.

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Postby tandfman » Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:38 pm

It must have been very late in Borzov's career, because the IAAF didn't change that rule until 1980.
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Postby trackworld » Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:46 pm

I remember watching that 'International King of Sports' when it was TV over here in the UK. Some of the events were aboslute foolishness, but nevertheless provided fairly good entertainment. Several Athletes from successful Clubs here in the UK competed, some of those athletes did have respectable PRs too (ie; 100m PR of sub-11.00, LJ PR of 7.00m+)

I cannot find confirmation, but I am certain that the furthest jump ever achieved with the 'Somersault' technique is 7.79m
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Postby ppalmer » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:58 am

tandfman wrote:It must have been very late in Borzov's career, because the IAAF didn't change that rule until 1980.


Right. These things take a while.

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Postby Vault-emort » Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:45 pm

I think the best ever achieved (before it was banned) was about 7.70m by a New Zealand jumper - http://www.executive.govt.nz/96-99/minister/delamere/
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Postby Powell » Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:18 am

lonewolf wrote:
Powell wrote:
Headlong dive
This event takes place on a long jump track and pit. Rather than landing feet first, contestants jump headlong; if their feet touch the sand, their effort is a no-jump. Iggy Singh (GB) holds the current sea level world record at 8.75m. Liam collins effort of 8.96m was deemed to be over the legal limit for wind speed (+2.6m/s)


Would this technique be considered illegal in a regular LJ competition?


The rules only prohibit "somersaulting". Occasionaly we see some pretty out of control landings but still within in the pit. I would simply measure the impression in the sand closest to the takeoff line.


If it's not illegal, why isn't it used? Judging by the records given in Wikipedia, it allows for much farther jumps than the normal technique.
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Re: Somersault Long Jump

Postby roald62 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:13 am

I remember years ago seeing a poster with a sequence of a somersault long jumper taken at Crystal Palace in the 70's. Does anyone know where I could find that sequence on line? Also was that John Delamere of Washington State?
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Re: Somersault Long Jump

Postby Tuariki » Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:44 am

roald62 wrote:I remember years ago seeing a poster with a sequence of a somersault long jumper taken at Crystal Palace in the 70's. Does anyone know where I could find that sequence on line? Also was that John Delamere of Washington State?

It was. It was at an ITA professional meet in August 1975.
You can find a video on YouTube if you search "long jump flip technique"
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