What's wrong with track and field!


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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby trackstar » Wed May 21, 2003 10:53 am

>Do whatever you like I'm merely stating "my" opinion. If it's cool with you, go for it! I prefer to pass on it.
Is that ok with you?

Of course it's okay. No one is questioning your right to express your opinion; we just happen to think your opinion is stupid. That's what democracy and debate (and message boards like this) are about. Feel free to express your opinion, just don't be surprised (which you seem to be) when others offer a rebuttal and call you a dork. Heck, it happens to me all the time. :-)
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby Brutal » Wed May 21, 2003 11:29 am

Let's see how long I maintain a "dork" status around here. I think ya might be in for a little surprise.

Love a challenge....hahaha!!
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby Guest » Wed May 21, 2003 11:34 am

both u guys are dorks if ya ask me. and brutal i remember u from the old trackwire message boards. u are a real pest.
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby Brutal » Wed May 21, 2003 11:45 am

translation

As usual I am totally out of my expertise simply because I have no expertise. Hey Brute good to see ya again!
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby Guest » Wed May 21, 2003 11:59 am

hey brutal i bet u are one of those guys who sishes they were fast huh. u just know a lot about track but could never run haha
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby el-supremo » Wed May 21, 2003 12:08 pm

"shift" key - thanc u.
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby Brutal » Wed May 21, 2003 12:09 pm

Not going to go into my personel athlectic accomplishments simply because this is the net and if it sounds too good ya won't believe me anyway. Believe whatever ya like.
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby Guest » Wed May 21, 2003 12:10 pm

nurmi question:

1. 24 Oly - Finn big wigs stop Nurmi from running 10k so other Finns runners had chance to win ... loses gold in 10k, big wigs steal the race!

2. 32 Oly - international big wigs rule him a professional - loses gold in 10k, big wigs steal the race!

Word had it that Nurmi went to his grave bitter about the '32 decision.

as for a body crossing the "finn ish line" before Nurmi ... was it another Finn?
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby Guest » Wed May 21, 2003 12:16 pm

isn't enjoyment a bit subjective...

some like opera, some like rap...

some like men only, some like any competition...

so brutal can enjoy his realm, and we can enjoy our realm...

we won't impose our belief structure upon him, and he can't impose his on our world...

i see no conflict here, because in this relativistic world, there is NO right in this value judgment...

just the inherent enjoyment of the many over the limited enjoyment of the few...

and we all embrace in a group hug.

happy with our enjoyments...ok.
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby el-supremo » Wed May 21, 2003 12:18 pm

I feel the love - can you feel our warm embrace, Brutal?
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby Brutal » Wed May 21, 2003 12:21 pm

All my wonderful "Brutality" down the drain.......hahaha!!!

It's all good!
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby Guest » Wed May 21, 2003 12:35 pm

On a different note -- Yikes, anyone going to Athens next year? Brutal, if you are planning to be in Greece for the Games, be sure not to offend any of the locals. Here is a scary link . . . http://foxsports.lycos.com/content/view ... Id=1372866
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby jsquire » Thu May 22, 2003 3:14 am

Brutal's silence on the Nurmi question made him unwttingly correct -- no one ever beat Nurmi in the 10k.

I'll admit that I'm flying by the seat of my pants on the Central Collegiates question -- my answer was current as of 15 or so years ago, but these individuals may have been eclipsed by now. (If anyone corrects me, I'll welcome it with open arms.) My info says Jesse Owens and Sid Sink.

When I ran at Bowling Green, the team was waiting for a meeting with Sid, our coach, and someone noticed that his picture in the hallway had ONLY THREE cross-country All-American certificates. Someone asked, "Hey, what's this? You weren't All-American when you were a freshman? What a wimp!" He told us freshmen weren't eligible at the time, or he would have been. Our team captain said Sid was dead serious, and absolutely right.

I'll get to work on all those sprint questions -- like a good lawyer, the most important thing is knowing where to look something up. I still say that the men's sprints and relays make up less than 12% of the Olympic events.

But not all of your questions were men's sprints. The Haiti question is easy -- Silvio Cator, LJ, September 9 1928 in Paris' Colombes stadium.
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby Guest » Thu May 22, 2003 7:28 am

sid sink - one of the steeple 'breakthru' guys for usa, jerome liebenberg (sp), and seems like some others (one or two) from early 70s. i remember reading from somewhere (t&fn?) that liebenberg considered playing basketball an integral part of his training regimen. I don't recall sink or liebenburg ever beating nurmi either - a select group, as jsquire has pointed out
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby jsquire » Thu May 22, 2003 8:01 am

Sid was a prime example of how talent can remain unknown. Sid loved (and still loves) basketball above any other activity. He was Fairview H.S.'s MVP as a senior and a conference all-star. He ran only because the coach said that all basketball players who weren't out for football must run cross country. So he did and became a state champion.

Despite the fact that he became the best steeple/5k guy from Ohio until Croghan and Kennedy came along, his high school times were no better or worse than other state champions of his era. A high school teammate of his (who himself became an 8:57 steepler) told us that their cross country training was three miles a day followed by a basketball "open gym". If you can be a state champ off of training like that, you're obviously talented.

He is faithfully represented in "Without Limitts". The writers really went to great lengths for realism -- they have a runner in the '72 Oly Trials 5k who wore the correct orange Bowling Green jersey and white shorts, had the right bad 70s mustache, and aped Sid's running form perfectly, all for less than five seconds of screen time. Recently deceased former BG coach Mel Brodt broke his hand beating on the seat next to him while yelling at Sid that day, who made his move too late and took fourth at the trials.

The first time I met Sid, on a recruiting trip (for academics, not track), I said to him "Hey, weren't you in the Olympics?" His reply was a simple but short "no". Years later I found out that George Young couldn't run in Munich due to an injury, and Sid could have taken his place -- but didn't find out soon enough to get there on time.
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby Guest » Thu May 22, 2003 8:12 am

sid was (at least per my take), as you say, much the gentleman - I was a 'B' level guy then w longshot at oly trials and ? - training indicated but injuries took care of that. never a steeple guy but sink was one guy i liked to watch, at any distance.

i appreciated his 'presence'. a quiet giant - it seemed. I'm almost sure T&F had a pic of sid and lieb arm in arm after one of their duels. sink w mustach and liegenberg w his headband and hair.

Sid had much respect from all corners
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby gh » Thu May 22, 2003 8:42 am

jsquire wrote:

>The first time I met Sid, on a
>recruiting trip (for academics, not track), I
>said to him "Hey, weren't you in the
>Olympics?" His reply was a simple but short
>"no". Years later I found out that George
>Young couldn't run in Munich due to an injury,
>and Sid could have taken his place -- but didn't
>find out soon enough to get there on time.>>

George Young would be surprised to learn that. He ran 13:41.2 (probably faster than Sink's PR) in his heat in Munich.
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby jsquire » Thu May 22, 2003 8:44 am

I am quite wrong then -- was it the steeplechase instead where Young did not compete? I know Sid got fourth in either the 5k or steeple at the trials, and totally bombed in the other event.
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby Guest » Thu May 22, 2003 9:48 am

>He is faithfully represented in "Without Limitts". The writers really went to great lengths for realism.

But they misspelled Arne Kvalheim's last name in the closing credits.
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby gh » Thu May 22, 2003 10:11 am

>I am quite wrong then -- was it the steeplechase
>instead where Young did not compete? I know Sid
>got fourth in either the 5k or steeple at the
>trials, and totally bombed in the other event.>>

Sink was 4th in the 5K, bombed the steeple.

Interesting note about Young's performance in Munich. He injured his hip shortly before arrival and couldn't run a 70-second lap a few days before the race,but he was one of the gutsiest guys ever, and just missed advancing to the final by one place.

But if we're going to talk "what might have been," should also note that his heat was the one where Miruts Yifter went to the wrong gate and ended up not running.
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Re: What's wrong with track and field!

Postby jsquire » Fri May 23, 2003 4:17 am

Last time I write something here without doing my fact-checking first. The old-timer in this town that told me that story obviously made it up.

My original point was that talented athletes can compete well in a wide variety of activities, and the USA's long-standing weakness in distance racing is probably due to the low popularity of the sport as much as any shortcomings in training methods or the collegiate system. Distance racing was popular from the early 60s up to the early 80s, and that was the only time our men were consistently competitive on a world level. I noted on another thread that almost all of the USA's most successful marathoners (DeMar, Kelley, Shorter, Galloway, Rodgers, Salazar, Benoit) either went to high school or college in New England, and probably chose to become marathoners because of the Boston Marathon's status as a major sporting event. I'm sure Sid's experience of being forced in cross-country by his basketball coach was not unusual in the 1960s, but it would be now.
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