Sun Yingjie fails doping test


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Postby Andrea_T » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:04 am

SQUACKEE wrote: it maybe true but it is one of the lamest excuses ive ever heard in my life.


Lame excuses tend not to be believed in courts of law, but I guess China is different... :roll:
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Postby tafnut » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:08 am

Given the current state of the sport why WOULDN'T we be skeptical? It has nothing to do with China or the Chinese legal system (ours let OJ go free). Our reactions would be the same if this were an American, a Canadian, or even a Greek :wink: .
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Postby bad hammy » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:09 am

Andrea_T wrote:In all seriousness, I think my first post is quite appropriate: A Chinese court has ruled she is innocent, it's now down to whether the Chinese federation and IAAF accept this. A lot of people are suspicious of 'the Chinese' performances, but each case should be viewed on it's individual merits. What's so freaky about that Porkie?

Here I have held back for the past few days from referring to Kobayashi's hot dog eating exploits, and what do I get? A reference to my weight! I resemble that comment!!

And as I stated earlier, at this point I consider Sun to be busted until the IAAF/WADA/CAS folks say otherwise.
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Postby MJD » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:17 am

Andrea_T wrote:
MJD wrote:
Andrea_T wrote:Anything else is a judgement on the Chinese legal system, and I dont believe anyone on thess forum is in a positrion to do that.


Wny not?


Tell me then, what do you know of the Chinese judicial system?



Are you serious? They put a ridiculous number of people to death(that we know of). That's enough for starters.
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Postby bad hammy » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:21 am

MJD wrote:Are you serious? They put a ridiculous number of people to death(that we know of). That's enough for starters.

Not that I don't agree with your overall argument, but we put more than a few people to death here in the US, too. And we let OJ continue to search the golf courses of the world for the real killer(s).
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Postby MJD » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:35 am

I'm not USAnian and the US has its own problems with ridiculous excuses. Many of the death penalty cases are not reported which goes to the point. There is the difference.
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Postby mojo » Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:38 am

China's human rights record is appallling and no I do not trust their legal system and neither does the average Chinese citizen. Read any report on China by Amnesty International.
Just this past week Chinese soliders shot at least three people dead (The people of the town say it is more like 20) beacuse they were protesting losing their farm land to a hydro project. The town is now completely cut off from the rest of China.

You can read AI's 2005 report on China here.

http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/chn-summary-eng
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Postby marknhj » Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:10 am

Martin and mojo are spot on; China has an appalling human rights record. The death penalty is regularly imposed for non-violent crimes such as theft, forgery and embezzelmet; defendents have limited access to attornies and limited time to prepare for the trial. Verdicts are often come to before the actual trial and the defendent usually gets a bullet in the back of the head a day or two later.

No, I have zero faith in the chinese legal system.
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Postby EPelle » Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:12 am

China Daily wrote:Yu was ordered to make a public apology in national newspapers to Sun, and pay spiritual compensation of 30,000 yuan (US$3,750).

What if Sun was atheist?

China Daily wrote:"Turning down water passed from strangers or keeping away from water that has already been opened is basic knowledge for athletes," said Shen.quote]

Maybe she should have blamed it on "dirty" water provided by a well-wisher under the marathon race.

Either way, she is no longer home free. Story on front page, link here.
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Postby MJD » Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:49 am

For the rose coloured glasses crowd:

"China's legal system often hands down verdicts that the powerless consider unfair. But a bigger problem is that courts often refuse to issue any verdict at all - or even acknowledge that some bothersome legal complaints exist."


http://tinyurl.com/a42f4
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Postby tandfman » Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:06 am

MJD wrote:I'm not USAnian and the US has its own problems with ridiculous excuses.

I think you have your tense wrong, MJD. I have the impression that since USADA took over the administration of the USA's doping program five years ago, the US has not had a problem. To be sure, individual athletes have offered ridiculous excuses (narcolepsy comes to mind as an obvious example). But the adjudication mechanisms now in place both domestically and internationally are designed assure that those excuses will not be accepted.

I guess that's another way of saying that the US "problem" was never that US athletes were more prone to making ridiculous excuses than those of any other country. The problem was that those excuses were sometimes accepted, at least domestically. I don't see any evidence that this has been a problem in recent years. So I think "had" would have been a better word choice than "has."
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Postby MJD » Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:54 am

I'm merely responding to the ridiculous assertion that I am some kind of racist because I don't buy this Chinese athlete's excuse. I'll jump all over anyone who stretches credulility-the Greeks, USAnians, Canucks, etc. The poster assumed that I was USAnian and that is why I referred to the US.
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Postby MJD » Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:54 am

More for the rose coloured glasses crowd:

"But it has now become a glaring uncertainty about China's commitment to the rule of law. There is widespread suspicion, even within the government, that too many innocent people are sentenced to death. This year, a raft of cases came to light in which wrongful convictions had led to death sentences, or, in one well-publicized case, the execution of an innocent man."

http://tinyurl.com/d6o2m
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Postby piaba » Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:16 pm

MJD wrote:More for the rose coloured glasses crowd:

"But it has now become a glaring uncertainty about China's commitment to the rule of law. There is widespread suspicion, even within the government, that too many innocent people are sentenced to death. This year, a raft of cases came to light in which wrongful convictions had led to death sentences, or, in one well-publicized case, the execution of an innocent man."

http://tinyurl.com/d6o2m


what does this have to do with the topic at hand?

and you mean, no innocent person has ever been put to death in the US???
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Postby Daisy » Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:29 pm

piaba wrote:
MJD wrote:This year, a raft of cases came to light in which wrongful convictions had led to death sentences, or, in one well-publicized case, the execution of an innocent man."

what does this have to do with the topic at hand?

You missed the point. MJD was accussed of being a racist for doubting that the court decision was legitimate. His post is just confirming that his opinion was based on well known facts about the chinese legal system.

Are you also implying he is a racist?
piaba wrote:and you mean, no innocent person has ever been put to death in the US???

Why is the quality of the US system relevent to his point? Maybe if you ask him he'll be equally critical of the U.S. legal system.
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Postby bad hammy » Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:37 pm

piaba wrote:and you mean, no innocent person has ever been put to death in the US???

You gotta read through the entire thread. I already played the 'US criminal justice system has problem, too' card. MJD made it plain that his is not from the US. I believe he is Canadian, and their criminal justice system does not have most of these problems.
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Postby EPelle » Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:26 am

No innocent person has been put to death here in Sweden, because we have no death penalty. This, however, does not stop me from finding fault with the Chinese government.
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Postby Jon » Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:56 am

It's official, Sun and her coach have been banned:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/4607174.stm
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Postby MJD » Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:20 am

"China is executing about 8,000 people every year, almost 20 times as many as the rest of the world combined, a new academic estimate suggests."


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... rnational/


No, I have no faith in their legal system.
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Postby Andrea_T » Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:11 am

MJD wrote:No, I have no faith in their legal system.


Why, because you do not personally agree with execution as penal code or because you do not trust their legal system in making the right verdict as to whether someone is guilty?

Because a country has a strict penal code I do not think one should assume their legal system is unreliable.. Besides, who says this piece of academic research, I mean guesstimate, is reliable?

Maybe the alleged 8,000 are all murderers and rapists convicted fairly...who knows. What we do know is that Sun has been banned, so maybe that has given you a teeny bit of faith in their athletic adminstration, no?
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Postby Jon » Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:25 am

As mentioned in passing on the IAAF website, Sun Yingjie's ban ends today.
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Postby SQUACKEE » Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:43 am

SQUACKEE wrote:i think her arms were tired from doin all the injections, hence the "running style" :wink:


If she comes back with her arms up then i am a super genius.
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Postby mojo » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:13 am

SQUACKEE wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:i think her arms were tired from doin all the injections, hence the "running style" :wink:


If she comes back with her arms up then i am a super genius.


IF she comes back I want her to run with her arms in the "I surrender" position for a year! :twisted:

Wouldn't that make you a super super super genius...I am losing track of all the supers you have in front of your name. :roll:
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Postby EPelle » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:16 am

Wouldn:t be so difficult to run with a small white flag in one hand. :wink:
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Postby nokick » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:41 pm

after reading through this thread...I am curious why GH has deemed this as inappropriate?

To be sure, I understand that TFN can be held liable for slander. And, especially in cases like Flojo where she can't defend herself--it just isn't fair.

And, in the 1980's--I subscribed to the magazine--got two editions--then, I somehow got Esquire for the remainder of the year. Oh well, no on is perfect.

I am just happy we all have a place to comment on our sport that we love.

Thank you TFN
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