Any Women On This Board?


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Any Women On This Board?

Postby Guest » Tue May 13, 2003 3:26 pm

TFNews devotes a lot of coverage to the women's side of the sport, so I was hoping that when this board started up I'd be able to see some informed discussion about those people, but I'm seeing very little. I know, why don't I start it myself? Cuz I'm a confirmed lurker and it took me weeks just to get around to posting this. Maybe I'd be braver if I thought anybody would want to join in. Is there anybody out there?
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby Guest » Tue May 13, 2003 4:07 pm

I'm here! And I've actually posted a few times, but never under my real name because I didn't want to be the first. I've got to admit that I've been enjoying the men's talk so much that the lack of women's hasnt' really been bothering me.
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby MJD » Tue May 13, 2003 4:28 pm

>TFNews devotes a lot of coverage to the women's
>side of the sport, so I was hoping that when this
>board started up I'd be able to see some informed
>discussion about those people, but I'm seeing
>very little.

TC spent a few bytes talking about thus article:

http://www.canada.com/edmonton/edmonton ... 0C48EE2BF7

Don't know how long it will stay there.
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby dl » Tue May 13, 2003 5:10 pm

As female track fans, you are definitely in the minority. But you also bring a different perspective. As women, how do you feel our sport should be convered/presented differently?

I don't mean to marginalize your view points by suggesting that you only look at the sport from a woman's perspective, but I'm curious if/how our sport can benefit by attracting more female viewers/fans.

dan
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby trackstar » Wed May 14, 2003 5:21 am

I'm not a woman, but more than happy to talk about the female athletes. Sorry if you feel they've been neglected in the discussions. It was Mary Slaney's great wins in the 1983 World Championships that changed me from being a football fan with a sideline interest in track to being a full-on track nut. I daresay the moderately successful high school track career I had would never have happened if not for her.
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby Guest » Wed May 14, 2003 5:44 am

Were you as fast as her? :-)
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby Guest » Wed May 14, 2003 6:09 am

Well, I just discovered this board yesterday, so I haven't had much time to digest all the postings.

I'm a guy, and I like good competition, whether it's male or female.

You can discuss a person like Marion Jones, and aside from her current pregnancy, a lot of the discussion can be about her as a competitor.

Gender issues, don't seem to have much impact in her selection of a coach over the past winter.

You can look at her being beat in Edmonton, and follow her until now, given her track and off the track news.

Pretty much, to me this is about a person, and the person happens to be female.

And much of my observation of track and field is through that lense.

Gender isn't that much a factor. It's the human story, and the competing which counts.
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby trackstar » Wed May 14, 2003 6:15 am

>Were you as fast as her? :-)

Sadly, no. As I said: "moderately" successful. :-)
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby Guest » Wed May 14, 2003 7:24 am

>As female track fans, you are definitely in the >minority. But you also bring a different >perspective. As women, how do you feel our sport >should be convered/presented differently?

I don't know how helpful I can be, since I don't think my suggestions for changes/improvements in coverage would classify as uniquely female... However, some wishes:

* Rather than watching 5 mins. of a touchy-feely profile about an athlete whose story I, as a track fan, am already familiar with, I'd rather see 5 more mins. of actual competition. Maybe then there would be time to show at least parts of a 10K final (or -- gasp! -- parts of both the men's and women's 10K finals).

* I'd like to see meets in real time when time-zone issues don't make the concept ridiculous, rather than seeing a time-delayed, neatly-packaged, sprint-intensive empty-air-filler two days after the meet. I already know the results, so what fun is that?

* I'd like to see more distance events (yes, even if there are no Americans in the final). I realize that for the majority of viewers, watching an entire 10K is similar to watching grass grow, but at least show me the last few laps!

* In a nutshell: less b.s., more competition!
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby Guest » Wed May 14, 2003 7:48 am

some day, make a trip to europe and catch the meets on tv...if you can't live

what you're asking for you'll get...

and the analysis is excellent...

I've been going to the WC since 1993, and the Eurosport coverage is great... they do things LIVE, then you can see everything in replay, for stuff you missed at the stadium itself
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby huh? » Wed May 14, 2003 7:54 am

>I've been going to the WC since 1993, and the Eurosport coverage is great... they do things LIVE, then you can see everything in replay, for stuff you missed at the stadium itself<

Let me make sure I understand that. You go to the WC. In Europe they do things LIVE. You describe the coverage so presumably you see it. Why? Why aren't you at the stadium like the rest of us?
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby Guest » Wed May 14, 2003 8:13 am

I'm there...

and then eurosport shows replays tape delayed too...

so you can catch it later...

if you want wackoo coverage, I went to the world cup in korea, and then there were 4 or 5 stations showing the matches over and over again 24/7...

i'm waiting for the day, we get the T&F channel, 24 hours of T&F....

Garry Hill, your in studio host??

we can dream can't we??
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby tafnut » Wed May 14, 2003 8:23 am

Why oh why do the corporate suits - even the ones at ESPN who should know better - keep giving us the 'up close and personal' BS that they think we want, when clearly none of us want it. Give me LIVE! coverage of events and through in the tapes of events that happened off-camera. Geez, how many times do we have to say this?
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby tafnut » Wed May 14, 2003 8:24 am

oops - 'throw in'
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby tandfman » Wed May 14, 2003 8:35 am

>Why oh why do the corporate suits - even the ones
at ESPN who should know better - keep giving us
the 'up close and personal' BS that they think we
want, when clearly none of us want it.<

The answer is simple. They don't care at all what tafnut and tandfman want. They're aiming for Joe Sixpack, a sports fan who may know something about football or basketball but have, at best, a very casual interest in track & field. There are a lot more Joe Sixpacks out there than tafnuts. The ESPN people think that Joe and his buddies will not watch a track meet, but might watch an entertaining show with some races in it. And they may be right.
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby trackstar » Wed May 14, 2003 10:27 am

* Rather than watching 5
>mins. of a touchy-feely profile about an athlete
>whose story I, as a track fan, am already
>familiar with, I'd rather see 5 more mins. of
>actual competition. Maybe then there would be
>time to show at least parts of a 10K final (or --
>gasp! -- parts of both the men's and women's 10K
>finals).
* In a nutshell: less b.s.,
>more competition!

I'm so happy to hear a woman say this. NBC keeps justifying the "soft and fuzzy" stuff by saying they are "reaching out to the female audience." And I asked my wife (not a track fan) if she likes that crap, and she said yes (that sound you hear is me ripping my hair out). Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it's insulting to assume women don't want to see competition.

To my grave, I will hate NBC for what they did to the women's 10K in Athens. I stayed up to watch it at its scheduled time, and it wasn't on. So I stayed up later, hoping to catch a tape delay. About two or three hours later, they did a "soft & fuzzy" on one of the contenders, a Kenyan woman, I think Tegla Loroupe. I assumed this was the lead-in to the race coverage. But then, nope, they showed a little bit of the slo-mo from the race, mentioned that Loroupe came in SIXTH, briefly mentioned who won (it looked like an exciting sprint finish) and then moved on to something else WITHOUT ACTUALLY SHOWING THE RACE. AAAAUUUGGGHHH!!! (More hair ripping out)
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby Guest » Wed May 14, 2003 10:40 am

Counting this thread I note that five the ten most recent threads are about women.
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby Guest » Wed May 14, 2003 10:52 am

we can only hope the days of the triplecast from barcelona will emerge in the future, where a viewer will have a selection of thousands of hand-tooled options...

that's the direction, eventually, where the viewer, for a fee, selects what to watch....

can be pricey, but eventually it'll be there...

otherwise, the results of nbc's focus groups will continue to drive the style of their programming
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby jsquire » Thu May 15, 2003 5:43 am

>However, some wishes:

* Rather than watching 5
>mins. of a touchy-feely profile about an athlete
>whose story I, as a track fan, am already
>familiar with, I'd rather see 5 more mins. of
>actual competition. Maybe then there would be
>time to show at least parts of a 10K final (or --
>gasp! -- parts of both the men's and women's 10K
>finals).

* I'd like to see meets in real time
>when time-zone issues don't make the concept
>ridiculous, rather than seeing a time-delayed,
>neatly-packaged, sprint-intensive
>empty-air-filler two days after the meet. I
>already know the results, so what fun is
>that?

* I'd like to see more distance events
>(yes, even if there are no Americans in the
>final). I realize that for the majority of
>viewers, watching an entire 10K is similar to
>watching grass grow, but at least show me the
>last few laps!

* In a nutshell: less b.s.,
>more competition!

I've always been fortunate enough to live in reception range of the Canadian border. While CBC's announcers might actually be worse than the usual ESPN/ABC/NBC suspects, the amount of coverage they give for a Worlds or Olympics is stunning.

In 1988, I taped their late-night coverage and then watched it after practice the next day with a teammate. For the 10 000m, we waited and waited for them to cut away or to commercial . . . but they showed all 25 laps live. In 2000, I got up daily at 3 am to watch live coverage from Sydney; I kept the chart on the men's HJ because they showed every single jump in the competition.

Their Golden League coverage is 90 minutes instead of our 60 (although it's shown a week later). They cover the World Cross Country championships. They use the "host feed" which gives you instantaneous field event standings. (Apparently US networks don't like it because they think Americans can't figure out that 8.65 meters is longer than 8.60 meters.)

Besides that they're in no hurry to get the GL meets on TV, CBC's only drawbacks are their announcers. I can only assume that Don Wittman intentionally tries to mispronounce every single name he sees, while Geoff Gowan is as grating as the get.

Of course, I've never seen track on European TV, so CBC might be the best of a bad bunch. But it's a lot better than what we get in the USA.
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby Guest » Thu May 15, 2003 6:19 am

eurosport does a fantastic job, particularly when compared with the state of nbc...

I saw some of the canadian stuff from edmonton, but still eurosport is more palletable..

of course, the british keen sense of humor might need some acclimation...

but they show the events, discuss tactics, know who's in form, and are always willing to speculate..
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby jsquire » Thu May 15, 2003 6:54 am

>eurosport does a fantastic job, particularly when
>compared with the state of nbc...

I saw some
>of the canadian stuff from edmonton, but still
>eurosport is more palletable..

of course, the
>british keen sense of humor might need some
>acclimation...

but they show the events,
>discuss tactics, know who's in form, and are
>always willing to speculate..

I agree -- CBC isn't good, they just show (a lot ) more. For any track I see on TV, I tape it and watch with a heavy hand on the fast forward. It's amazing how you can watch a 1-hour meet in 20 minutes!
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby Guest » Thu May 15, 2003 7:29 am

Hey! Who hijacked our thread? What the #@%$#@$% does Eurosport vs. nbc vs. cbs have to do with the lack of women's topics?!!!!!
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Re: Any Women On This Board?

Postby jsquire » Thu May 15, 2003 8:49 am

>Hey! Who hijacked our thread? What the #@%$#@$%
>does Eurosport vs. nbc vs. cbs have to do with
>the lack of women's topics?!!!!!

OK, here's a women's topic that T&FN hasn't covered.

Does cutting men's programs because of Title IX reduce opportunity for women? In many cases it reduces half of a university's women's coaches, which certainly does affect opportunity for women. Is this something that can be argued in court?

In no way do I actually oppose Title IX. In most cases it's a convenient excuse for cutting men's track programs that has no real basis in fact. At Bowling Green, the university was found by the DOE to be in compliance with Title IX, yet the AD cut men's track and blamed Title IX anyway. (Everyone assumed he was telling the truth until I found the DOE report in the Chronicle of Higher Education three months later.)
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