Secretariat


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Secretariat

Postby eldrick » Thu May 05, 2005 5:04 pm

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Re: Secretariat

Postby DrJay » Thu May 05, 2005 6:20 pm

http://www.secretariat.com/races/belmont.htm

The greatest thoroughbred racehorse of all time. His Derby record of 1:59 2/5 still stands and only one other horse has broken 2:00 (Monarchos in 2001.) From a website I found: "A lesser-known but perhaps more awesome accomplishment of his took place in that year's Derby. On his way to a still-standing record time in that race (1:59 2/5), he achieved the unheard-of feat of running each quarter-mile segment fractionally faster than the one before it. The successive quarter-mile times were: 25 1/5, 24, 23 4/5, 23 2/5 and 23." His Belmont record still stands and his 31 length victory there probably has no rival in the history of thoroughbred racing.
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Re: Secretariat

Postby eldrick » Fri May 06, 2005 2:03 am

his belmont record does a little more than just "still stand"

it is still the WR for 1 1/2 miles on dirt !!!
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Re: Secretariat

Postby eldrick » Fri May 06, 2005 2:51 am

http://thoroughbredchampions.com/library/worldrec.htm

may i add, many racing guys often mention dr. fager in the same breathe - he still holds the mile record from '68 !
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Re: Secretariat

Postby Rufus Cookie » Fri May 06, 2005 3:54 am

22 furlongs record
HORSE NAME:SHOT PUT
age:4 weight:126 14-Aug-40 4:48 4

im a big fan of this horse, except, how many shot putters coudl run 22 furlongs


i have always wondered how do australian horses compare to american ones?

horses such as Octagonal, Might and Power, Kingston Town, Sunline, Makybe diva and Lonhro
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Re: Secretariat

Postby eldrick » Fri May 06, 2005 3:57 am

you have to tell us the story of pharlap
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Re: Secretariat

Postby Rufus Cookie » Fri May 06, 2005 3:59 am

i do? why? i prefer those other horses

for eldrick
Phar Lap is a Thai word, meaning Wink of the Skies to learn more please go to
http://pharlap.com.au/
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Re: Secretariat

Postby SQUACKEE » Fri May 06, 2005 4:23 am

you guys probably already know this but they did an autopsy on sec. and his heart was like twice the normal size!
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Re: Secretariat

Postby eldrick » Fri May 06, 2005 4:29 am

there really shouldn't be any difference between the horses in different countries

all thoroghbreds are descended from 3 arabians brought to GB in the 1700's & the progeny spread to all 4 corners of the world

P.S.

cookymonzta, i only asked !

no need to froth up !
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Re: Secretariat

Postby Rufus Cookie » Fri May 06, 2005 4:35 am

phar laps heart weighed 14lbs
i believe they never got an official weight on Secretariats heart, as the owner didnt think it seemed right to remove the heart from the body.
have heard 22lbs though?
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Re: Secretariat

Postby Rufus Cookie » Fri May 06, 2005 4:41 am

who is frothing up? might have to be a scratching


The Byerly Turk (1680-1696)
Captured from the Turks in Hungary, he was brought to England by Colonel Robert Byerley. Due to a printer's error, the horse's name was registered in the General Stud Book without the final "e."
Thr Godolphin Arabian (1724-1753)
Given by the Bey of Tunis to the King of France, he was purchased by Edward Coke and subsequently presented to the Earl of Godolphin, at whose stud he sired the champion mare Aelima, imported to Maryland in 1750.
The Darley Arabian (1700-1733)
Thomas Darley sent this Arabian stallion from Syria to England. Ninety percent of all Thoroughbreds today are descended through his son Flying Childers and his great-great grandson Eclipse.

but the mares dont have to descend from these three, so there can be differences i spose, not alot i agree
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Re: Secretariat

Postby eldrick » Fri May 06, 2005 7:39 am

roofie

for a studious young man, you have by far, too much spare time on your hands !
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Re: Secretariat

Postby xcfan » Fri May 06, 2005 7:44 am

I'am a fan of the underdog how would Seabiscuit
have done against Secretariat? Remember this was the horse that people felt didn't have a
fighting chance against War Admiral but
on 11-1-38 he made them all eat their words.
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Re: Secretariat

Postby eldrick » Fri May 06, 2005 7:56 am

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/tc99/h ... t/1930.asp

war admiral won the belmont in 2'28.6 whereas secretariat's WR is 2'24 flat

if we say seabiscuit was 3 or 4 lengths at best better than war admiral, then he couda probably run 2'26 - 2'27

i'm not doing the maths now, but i'd suppose that secretariat wouda whupped seabiscuit by 10 - 15 lengths
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Re: Secretariat

Postby SQUACKEE » Fri May 06, 2005 8:09 am

no body beats secretariat, not even spiderman on board seabiscuit.
when there is another horse of this talent we will know it.
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Re: Secretariat

Postby DrJay » Fri May 06, 2005 11:10 am

>i believe they never got an official weight on Secretariats heart, as the owner didnt think it >seemed right to remove the heart from the body


http://www.claibornefarm.com/

Last summer I had the privilege of touring part of Claiborne Farm, outside Lexington, KY. Secretariat is buried there. Usually horses are buried head, heart, and hooves. Secretariat, and I believe one other of Claiborne's greats, was buried whole, so great was his career. Check out the list of horses buried in their cemetery. Some were known best for their races, others for producing great racing offspring.

Ambiorix (c. 1946-1975)
Blenheim II (c. 1927-1958)
Bold Ruler (c. 1954-1971)
Buckpasser (c. 1963-1978)
Court Martial (c. 1942-1966)
Double Jay (c. 1944-1972)
Gallant Fox (c. 1927-1954)
Herbager (c. 1956-1976)
Hoist The Flag (c. 1968-1980)
Johnstown (c. 1936-1950)
Mr. Prospector (c. 1970-1999)
Nasrullah (c. 1940-1959)
Nijinsky II (c. 1967-1992)
Princequillo (c. 1940-1964)
Reviewer (c. 1966-1977)
Riva Ridge (c. 1969-1985)
Round Table (c. 1954-1987)
Secretariat (c. 1970-1989)
Sir Gallahad III (c. 1920-1949; marker only, grave is at Marchmont division)
Swale (c. 1981-1984).

Two living Derby winners are at stud there, Monarchos and Go For Gin. They brought Monarchos out of his stall. I started looking around for the weight room after running my hand along his neck and shoulder. Muscles like Arnold might have had during maximal training/juicing. Unbelievable. The stalls all had one or more gold plates on the door, with the names of the current and past residents of that particular stall. The first one is empty, plexiglass over the open upper part of the door. The names on that door were four, two greats that I don't recall just now, but also Bold Ruler and Secretariat. The stallion manager said somewhat whistfully, "Well, we hope...someday....to have another horse worthy of that stall."
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Re: Secretariat

Postby eldrick » Fri May 06, 2005 12:43 pm

great post !
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Re: Secretariat

Postby utopian » Fri May 06, 2005 2:48 pm

Many years ago, I read an article that convinced me that race horses knew that they were in a race and that they strived to finish first over a particular distance. Assuming that my first opinion would have been that it was 50/50 horse and jockey, afterwards I would have put it 80/20.

Is there support for my belief?

BTW, what better proof could there be for the benefits of negative splits!
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Re: Secretariat

Postby buckeye II » Fri May 06, 2005 7:58 pm

One of the greatest horses of all time was Sham. The problem was he chose the same year as Secretariat to race.
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Re: Secretariat

Postby mrbowie » Sat May 07, 2005 2:58 am

It is 98 percent horse and 2 percent rider.

I own a racing stable and have raced or managed racehorses since the mid 1970s.

The horse is the whole ball of wax. Any competent jockey can win on the best horse.

Every once in a while the jockey is important, especially in big races.

We lost the Kentucky Derby by a head with the favorite when our jockey was outsmarted by the winning jockey close home.
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Re: Secretariat

Postby buckeye II » Sat May 07, 2005 4:13 am

mrbowie, Please elaborate and enlighten us prior to today's Derby. What year? What happened? What things should I look for to enjoy today's race even more than usual?
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Re: Secretariat

Postby Rufus Cookie » Sat May 07, 2005 4:43 am

horses win races, jockeys lose them
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Re: Secretariat

Postby EPelle » Sat May 07, 2005 4:50 am

horses win races, jockeys beat them, remember? Who was that troll?
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Re: Secretariat

Postby Rufus Cookie » Sat May 07, 2005 5:07 am

if a good horse has a bad stupid idiotic pathetic moron of a jockey that races it badly and stops it running its natural race, it will usually not win. a good jockey will know a horse and know what its doing, not try and control it to do what they want to do.
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Re: Secretariat

Postby eldrick » Sat May 07, 2005 4:30 pm

not the greatest race

maybe nick zito had better summon up secretariat's ghost after all if he wants to win !


http://sports.yahoo.com/rah/news;_ylc=X ... &type=lgns
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Re: Secretariat

Postby bambam » Sat May 07, 2005 8:01 pm

>One of the greatest horses of all time was Sham. The problem was he chose the
>same year as Secretariat to race.

Sham finished 2nd to Secretariat in the Derby and Preakness. In the Belmont, he tried to run with Secretariat and held on til the middle of the back stretch. He gave out from the effort, finished last, and never raced again.
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Re: Secretariat

Postby buckeye II » Sun May 08, 2005 5:20 am

Sham finished 2nd to Secretariat in
>the Derby and Preakness. In the Belmont, he tried to run with Secretariat and
>held on til the middle of the back stretch. He gave out from the effort,
>finished last, and never raced again.

In many years, Sham would have been a triple crown contender. Secretariet reduced a horse of that magnitude to jogging in! Amazing.
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Man O'War

Postby Rufus Cookie » Sun May 08, 2005 5:38 am

In the sixteen months between June 1919 and October 1920, Man o' War rewrote the record books. His victories included the Keene Memorial Stakes, Youthful Stakes, Hudson Stakes, Tremont Stakes, United States Hotel Stakes, Grand Union Hotel Stakes, Hopeful Stakes, Belmont Futurity, Preakness Stakes, Withers Stakes, Belmont Stakes, Stuyvesant Handicap, Dwyer Stakes, Miller Stakes, Travers Stakes, Lawrence Realization Stakes, Jockey Club (now the Gold Cup) Stakes, Potomac Handicap and Kenilworth Park Gold Cup.

He was odds-on in all 21 of his races -- three times being quoted by bookmakers at 1-100. He won the Belmont Stakes by 20 lengths and the Lawrence Realization by 100 lengths. He beat the best horses of his time, including John P. Grier and Triple Crown winner Sir Barton.

Man o' War's time records included:

New World Record, Dwyer Stakes, 1 1/8 miles
New World Record, Belmont Stakes, 1 3/8 miles
New World Record, Lawrence Realization, 1 5/8 miles
New American Record, Jockey Club Stakes, 1 1/2 miles
New American Record, Withers Stakes, 1 mile
New Track Record, Kenilworth Park Gold Cup, 1 1/4 miles
New Track Record, Potomac Handicap, 1 1/16 miles
Equaled Track Record, Travers Stakes, 1 1/4 miles
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Re: Man O'War

Postby MJD » Mon May 09, 2005 4:10 am

Listening to a talk show today and a host who basically is all Bills all the time asked a horse type reporter to put the Derby upset on the week-end into some kind of perspective he could relate to. What would be the track(or field) comparison?
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Re: Man O'War

Postby Rufus Cookie » Mon May 09, 2005 4:41 am

Ralph Doubell winning the 800m in mexico city 68?
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Re: Man O'War

Postby wineturtle » Mon May 09, 2005 4:54 am

>Listening to a talk show today and a host who basically is all Bills all the
>time asked a horse type reporter to put the Derby upset on the week-end into
>some kind of perspective he could relate to. What would be the track(or field)
>comparison?

Billy Mills '64 comes to mind.
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Re: Secretariat

Postby DrJay » Tue May 10, 2005 1:32 pm

The stalls all had one or more gold plates on the door, with the names of the current and past residents of that particular stall. The first one is empty, plexiglass over the open upper part of the door. The names on that door were four, two greats that I don't recall just now, but also Bold Ruler and Secretariat. The stallion manager said somewhat whistfully, "Well, we hope...someday....to have another horse worthy of that stall."

Unbridled and Easy Goer were the other two.
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Re: Secretariat

Postby mrbowie » Wed May 11, 2005 7:20 pm

>mrbowie, Please elaborate and enlighten us prior to today's Derby. What year?
>What happened? What things should I look for to enjoy today's race even more
>than usual?

I ran a horse named Captain Bodgit in 1997 and he got beat a head by Silver Charm, whose rider Gary Stevens gradually steered his mount to the right to take our colt's path and force our rider Alex Solis to check our colt just enough to lose the race because of a loss of momentum.

Good riders are like good chess players--they think a few moves in advance. Stevens out-rode Solis.
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Re: Secretariat

Postby mrbowie » Wed May 11, 2005 7:22 pm

>
Sham finished 2nd to Secretariat in
>the Derby and Preakness. In the
>Belmont, he tried to run with Secretariat and
>held on til the middle of the
>back stretch. He gave out from the effort,
>finished last, and never raced
>again.

In many years, Sham would have been a triple crown contender.
>Secretariet reduced a horse of that magnitude to jogging in! Amazing.


The reason we know for sure how great Secretariat was is that he raced against Sham. I covered racing for years for industry trades in horse racing and I thought Sham was the best 3yo I had ever seen in California.
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Re: Secretariat

Postby buckeye II » Thu May 12, 2005 7:57 am

Good riders are like good chess players--they think a few moves in
>advance. Stevens out-rode Solis.

mrbowie,

What did you think of Mike Smith's ride on Giacomo? I thought the overhead shot of his splitting the field and finding running room was spectacular. I also thought he was quite lucky that the path opened for him. What is your analysis?
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Re: Secretariat

Postby wynton » Thu May 12, 2005 5:02 pm

Thanks for the mention of horse racing. Growing up near Louisville, I've had a soft spot for these athletes all my life. I've seen Secretariat's Belmont performance countless times, and it always gives me chills. What an athlete! I would also echo the sentiments for Sham. While watching these old replays, I've often remarked, "Poor Sham"--he's Joe Frazier to Secretariat's Ali.
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Re: Secretariat

Postby twittering debutante » Thu May 12, 2005 6:54 pm

I believe Secretariat won the Belmont the same afternoon Craig Virgin ran 8:40.9 HSR at Mt. Prospect IPI.
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Re: Secretariat

Postby mrbowie » Thu May 12, 2005 7:02 pm

>I believe Secretariat won the Belmont the same afternoon Craig Virgin ran
>8:40.9 HSR at Mt. Prospect IPI.

Well, that certainly puts Secretariat's feat in perspective.
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Re: Secretariat

Postby mrbowie » Thu May 12, 2005 7:03 pm

>
Good riders are like good chess players--they think a few moves in
>advance.
>Stevens out-rode Solis.

mrbowie,

What did you think of Mike Smith's ride
>on Giacomo? I thought the overhead shot of his splitting the field and finding
>running room was spectacular. I also thought he was quite lucky that the path
>opened for him. What is your analysis?

On a "souped up" track (rolled, packed down, made hard), all of the horses that showed speed died, setting it up for the closers. The winner had a dream run through.

Wouldn't surprise me to see him never win another race of any kind, let alone a good one.
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Re: Secretariat

Postby twittering debutante » Thu May 12, 2005 7:26 pm

On a
>"souped up" track (rolled, packed down, made hard), all of the horses that
>showed speed died, setting it up for the closers. The winner had a dream run
>through.

No kidding ...........
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