Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!


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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby Pego » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:46 pm

odelltrclan wrote:Her statement was that our law should be based upon moral principles.


On that we would agree , only if we spelled out which ones. My problem is which moral principles is SP talking about. She said Ten Commandments. That includes prohibition of work on the Sabbath (everybody would be in violation), prohibition of swearing (a lot of people would be in violation), prohibition of any other gods except the G-d of Israel (there goes separation of Church and State), any sex outside of marriage, including before and after (raise your hand all of you that did comply), prohibition of envy (OMG!!!), prohibition of lust (I guess that picture of Brianna to your right would send T&FN's editorial board up the creek). Our laws already prohibit killing, stealing and lying.

The problem with people like SP is that they throw out provocative one-liners such as this one and her apologists will try to "explain" to the likes of me what she meant, when I accept at face value what she actually said.

I know at least some of which "moral principles" she means. Abortion is one of them and it is not even mentioned anywhere in the Bible, even though commonly practiced in those days. She sure is not talking about the care of the poor, which is prominently mentioned.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby lonewolf » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:56 pm

Thank you, aaronk. It is reassuring to know that there are at least two of us who share a favorable opinion of Sarah Palin.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby Daisy » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:14 pm

aaronk wrote:"In God We Trust".

Enuf said!

Didn't this emphasis come into being in the 20th century? If so, then it has nothing to do with your founders
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby MJR » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:27 pm

Daisy wrote:
aaronk wrote:"In God We Trust".

Enuf said!

Didn't this emphasis come into being in the 20th century? If so, then it has nothing to do with your founders


"under god" added to pledge of allegiance in 1954

"in god we trust" added to money in 1956

both were done as a "defense" against the godless scourge of cold war communism in the mccarthy era. they have nothing to do with the founding fathers.

its a shame that the basic tea party follower is factually ignorant and wears that ignorance like a merit badge. they make crap up to defend whatever insanity some tv talking idiot foments into their accepting little minds.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby odelltrclan » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:45 pm

Pego wrote:Abortion is one of them and it is not even mentioned anywhere in the Bible, even though commonly practiced in those days.


Oddly enough :wink: , some might argue that it is, or rather might or should be. I am sure many are familiar with the politicking that went into the decisions of what books were to be included or not included in the Bible.

The Book of Barnabas, (which many Biblical scholars believe to be authentic and written by the purported author, who traveled and preached with Paul), does discuss abortion. "Thou shalt no destroy they conceptions before they are brought forth; nor kill them after they are born." [Barnabas XIV:11] This was one of the books that was in and out of the writings that ultimately were politically decided upon as to what would be in our present Bibles.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby odelltrclan » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:49 pm

lonewolf wrote:Thank you, aaronk. It is reassuring to know that there are at least two of us who share a favorable opinion of Sarah Palin.


I do as well, but, at the same time cringe sometimes when she speaks. She says lots of good things but every so often, rhetorically speaking, puts her foot in her mouth. Which politician doesn't. However, in our vulturistic society, people are waiting in the wings for those moments so they can feel good about themselves by demeaning another.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby Pego » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:06 pm

odelltrclan wrote:
Pego wrote:Abortion is one of them and it is not even mentioned anywhere in the Bible, even though commonly practiced in those days.


Oddly enough :wink: , some might argue that it is, or rather might or should be. I am sure many are familiar with the politicking that went into the decisions of what books were to be included or not included in the Bible.

The Book of Barnabas, (which many Biblical scholars believe to be authentic and written by the purported author, who traveled and preached with Paul), does discuss abortion. "Thou shalt no destroy they conceptions before they are brought forth; nor kill them after they are born." [Barnabas XIV:11] This was one of the books that was in and out of the writings that ultimately were politically decided upon as to what would be in our present Bibles.


Apocrypha plus other ancient books that were not included by the Church fathers is a fascinating subject. You realize, of course, that some of them directly contradict the accepted Canon :wink: .

Oh yes, I almost forgot. Barnabas also gave away all his property before he became Paul's missionary companion. That would be an anathema to SP's philosophy, would it not. This cherry-picking of the Bible and history in general is what drives me nuts. Yes, on both sides of the political spectrum.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby odelltrclan » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:25 pm

Pego wrote:Apocrypha plus other ancient books that were not included by the Church fathers is a fascinating subject. You realize, of course, that some of them directly contradict the accepted Canon :wink: .

Oh yes, I almost forgot. Barnabas also gave away all his property before he became Paul's missionary companion. That would be an anathema to SP's philosophy, would it not. This cherry-picking of the Bible and history in general is what drives me nuts. Yes, on both sides of the political spectrum.


Yes, I do realize Pego! There are hundreds of books, and I have read many of them. I happened to like Barnabas, and a few others, but not many. At one point it became a trend in early Christianity. If you wanted a practice or belief to be believed, write a book and claim it was from an Apostle or early church leader, so you have to take them with a grain of salt. Though by simply reading them it is easy to week out most.

As for SP and your take on her "giving" I think many have it wrong. She is not preaching the poor be damned. To some extent, it is the individual's and church's prerogative to do such work. Yes, of course there is an inherent problem with those who don't belong to an organized religion, or the many that don't do a whole lot for other than take their weekly collections. The government wants to take tax incentives away for giving to the poor, which causes people to give less, and thus they become more reliant on government. Many church welfare programs goals are of helping the poor become self sufficient so they can rely on themselves and not the government. Our society is becoming more dependent, not less dependent, and it is because the programs by government do not create the proper incentives for many to become self-sufficient.

Ironically, in my profession, I see and have seen the charitable giving habits of many hundreds of people. In my experience, conservatives and those on the "right" are far more generous with giving their money to the poor than liberals and progressives on the "left". I think one group believes they have a personal duty while the other believes it is the government's duty.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby Pego » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:38 pm

odelltrclan wrote:I think one group believes they have a personal duty while the other believes it is the government's duty.


Yes, I am one of those that are of the opinion that the state should provide a safety net for those that for some reason or another cannot provide for themselves. Alms may make the rich feel good about themselves, but they are far from sufficient to provide such a net.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby Blues » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:42 pm

odelltrclan wrote:Ironically, in my profession, I see and have seen the charitable giving habits of many hundreds of people. In my experience, conservatives and those on the "right" are far more generous with giving their money to the poor than liberals and progressives on the "left". I think one group believes they have a personal duty while the other believes it is the government's duty.


That paragraph made me curious. Do you see ALL the different charities and causes that both groups tend to give to? Or are you only involved with one? And is there a slight chance that one group, by nature of the pool it's made up of, has more money to be able to give or has more need for a tax write-off? And do your allegedly more philanthropic conservatives also donate more of their time to try to improve conditions for those who may be less fortunate, besides simply pulling out their checkbooks? Seems there's more to evaluating the giving nature of people (and their consideration for the wellbeing of others) than just how big a check they can write...
Last edited by Blues on Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby odelltrclan » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:46 pm

Blues wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:Ironically, in my profession, I see and have seen the charitable giving habits of many hundreds of people. In my experience, conservatives and those on the "right" are far more generous with giving their money to the poor than liberals and progressives on the "left". I think one group believes they have a personal duty while the other believes it is the government's duty.


That paragraph made me curious. Do you see ALL the different charities and causes that both groups tend to give to? Or are you only involved with one? And is there a slight chance that one group, by nature of the pool it's made up of, has more money to be able to give or has more need for a tax write-off? And do your allegedly more philanthropic conservatives also donate more of their time to try to improve conditions for those who may be less fortunate, besides simply pulling out their checkbooks?


I see both the charities given to and the amounts given. I am a CPA and have prepared thousands of tax returns over nearly 25 years now. As a whole, when comparing them side by side, the conservative group gives more of their time and money to charitable causes.

I had one client, a college professor, who was a liberal and we discussed his views, which included his desire for the government to take better care of the poor. In 10 years or so he never gave one cent to any charity other than the United Way taking about $98 of payroll deductions which I think the University, or Union he belonged to required. That is more typical than atypical. Then I see those on the other side who give to any and every cause. Tons of money. It makes me feel bad at times and I give a hefty sum myself.
Last edited by odelltrclan on Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby cullman » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:53 pm

Pego wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:I think one group believes they have a personal duty while the other believes it is the government's duty.


Yes, I am one of those that are of the opinion that the state should provide a safety net for those that for some reason or another cannot provide for themselves. Alms may make the rich feel good about themselves, but they are far from sufficient to provide such a net.

Personal duty, charity and "volunteerism" sound a lot like Herbert Hoover circa 1930. It doesn't pass the test where the rubber meets the road.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby odelltrclan » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:56 pm

cullman wrote:
Pego wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:I think one group believes they have a personal duty while the other believes it is the government's duty.


Yes, I am one of those that are of the opinion that the state should provide a safety net for those that for some reason or another cannot provide for themselves. Alms may make the rich feel good about themselves, but they are far from sufficient to provide such a net.

Personal duty, charity and "volunteerism" sound a lot like Herbert Hoover circa 1930. It doesn't pass the test where the rubber meets the road.


In whose world?
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby aaronk » Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:01 pm

This was FUN!!!
A FB friend of mine.....actually a "FRIEND".......read this entire thread (I told her about it! She's a strong supporter of Sarah too...and LOVES my writings about her!!)......and said she wants to copy it onto other FB group sites supporting Sarah!
I said for her to do so!

BTW, she sent a gift.......a book about Abe Lincoln......to Sarah a few years ago.
In the paperback edition of Sarah's book, "Going Rogue", which was published in the fall of 2010, about a year after the initial hardbound edition, on pages 411-412, Sarah makes mention of my friend's gift.....and quotes from the book!!

In fact, I was the one who discovered her being mentioned, and was the first person to tell her.
She was THRILLED!! :D

Now back to the "safe" world of Track and Field!!! :shock:
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby cullman » Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:06 pm

odelltrclan wrote:
cullman wrote:
Pego wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:I think one group believes they have a personal duty while the other believes it is the government's duty.


Yes, I am one of those that are of the opinion that the state should provide a safety net for those that for some reason or another cannot provide for themselves. Alms may make the rich feel good about themselves, but they are far from sufficient to provide such a net.

Personal duty, charity and "volunteerism" sound a lot like Herbert Hoover circa 1930. It doesn't pass the test where the rubber meets the road.


In whose world?

In the real world of economic down turns, bank failures, tight credit etc.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby Daisy » Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:47 pm

odelltrclan wrote:in 10 years or so he never gave one cent to any charity other than the United Way taking about $98 of payroll deductions which I think the University, or Union he belonged to required. That is more typical than atypical. Then I see those on the other side who give to any and every cause. Tons of money. It makes me feel bad at times and I give a hefty sum myself.

Do you believe that all money given to charity appears on a tax form? My guess is that a lot of money is donated to charities and then not itemized for the tax man. And obviously that is true for time too.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby dustoff » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:16 pm

Let's get back to the topic.

Palin is an idiot. Pretty simple and obvious at that. Every 'respectable' (an adjective I use lightly) politician has distances him/herself from Palin. The woman was only paraded around as a response to Obama receiving the Democratic nod. It is a travesty that the Republicans thought it was a smart idea.

Worst yet, she is part of a large faction of neocons that cause the party to lose was respect people do have for it.

Guys like Ron Paul are extremely religious and are intelligent enough to realize that it has no place in politics, but unfortunately, Palin & company don't seem to understand that.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby dustoff » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:17 pm

Daisy wrote:Do you believe that all money given to charity appears on a tax form? My guess is that a lot of money is donated to charities and then not itemized for the tax man. And obviously that is true for time too.


I would be surprised if any meaningful amount of money that is donated does not appear on a tax form.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby Marlow » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:20 pm

dustoff wrote:Let's get back to the topic.
Palin is an idiot. Pretty simple and obvious at that.

Well, yes, that about sums it up, I guess! :twisted:
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby aaronk » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:39 pm

Marlow wrote:
dustoff wrote:Let's get back to the topic.
Palin is an idiot. Pretty simple and obvious at that.

Well, yes, that about sums it up, I guess! :twisted:


What, in your opinion, constitutes an "idiot"?
I.Q.?
Grades in school?
Whether you've read Hemingway or Tolstoy.....or even know who they are?

Many people say Palin is an "idiot".
Yet she's known as an avid reader....of some quite scholarly books.
She's a college graduate. (And PLEASE don't be critical of WHICH college!! To get that far, one must be SOMEWHAT capable of reading and writing.....especially as her major was Communications!!)
She's written two books!! (Although, as i said earlier, there are people who doubt SHE wrote those best sellers!!)
Is it the way she speaks? Kinda folksy and using simple words?
Is it, perhaps, her beauty? (The idea that brains and beauty don't mix??)

Please explain to me.....in SPECIFIC FACT-BASED terms......what you mean by "Palin is an idiot."!!
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby odelltrclan » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:49 pm

Daisy wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:in 10 years or so he never gave one cent to any charity other than the United Way taking about $98 of payroll deductions which I think the University, or Union he belonged to required. That is more typical than atypical. Then I see those on the other side who give to any and every cause. Tons of money. It makes me feel bad at times and I give a hefty sum myself.

Do you believe that all money given to charity appears on a tax form? My guess is that a lot of money is donated to charities and then not itemized for the tax man. And obviously that is true for time too.


Daisy, in the real world, people are looking for every deduction they can get, and then some. I have to review donations to make sure they are to legitimate charities. Yes, every once in a while someone will try and give $100 or $200 to a family friend or something of that nature and try to claim it but can't. People are WAY WAY more apt to try to deduct more than they are entitled to than less!
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby dustoff » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:55 pm

Fact based items:

1. She went to a terrible college and is generally uneducated/undereducated.
2. She graduated in one of the weakest majors that has essentially 0 intellectual rigor.
3. According to people within the McCain/Palin ticket, she had minimal knowledge of geography and world affairs.
4. She believes her religion should be in politics.
5. She is religious extremely religious. Extremely significant negative association between IQ and religiosity.
6. Lynn Vincent authored at least one of her books.
7. Couldn't name a single newspaper that she reads.
8. All of these quotes and more,
9. The entire e-mail fiasco.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby odelltrclan » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:57 pm

aaronk wrote:
Marlow wrote:
dustoff wrote:Let's get back to the topic.
Palin is an idiot. Pretty simple and obvious at that.

Well, yes, that about sums it up, I guess! :twisted:


What, in your opinion, constitutes an "idiot"?
!!


People have simply devolved into labeling derogatory names to those they don't share the same views as. Bigotry is a thriving industry in the USA and politically, if you disagree on policies, the first thing you try and do is to belittle an opponent so they appear to be discredited and people will not listen to them. Most of us probably agree or have a high degree of commonality on 95% of topics yet that 5% of differences are used to polarize and divide. Hence such labels as "idiots" are so commonly used.

Sarah Palin has probably accomplished far more in her life than virtually everyone that reads these boards. Can she say some dumb things once in awhile? Sure, who doesn't. I suspect of the hate spewed her way has to do with trying to demean her for her perceived philosophical differences and little more.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby odelltrclan » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:59 pm

dustoff wrote:Fact based items:

1. She went to a terrible college and is generally uneducated/undereducated.
2. She graduated in one of the weakest majors that has essentially 0 intellectual rigor.
3. According to people within the McCain/Palin ticket, she had minimal knowledge of geography and world affairs.
4. She believes her religion should be in politics.
5. She is religious extremely religious. Extremely significant negative association between IQ and religiosity.
6. Lynn Vincent authored at least one of her books.
7. Couldn't name a single newspaper that she reads.
8. All of these quotes and more,
9. The entire e-mail fiasco.


And 10. Your really grasping at straws to try and hope something sticks and at the same time sound intelligent!
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby dustoff » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:26 pm

odelltrclan wrote:And 10. Your really grasping at straws to try and hope something sticks and at the same time sound intelligent!



I associate myself closer with conservative than liberal, although neither really fits. Palin is the worst of the worst of the neocon movement. There is nothing positive that comes out of her participation.

I'm not grasping for straws here. I could spend an hour or two finding a myriad of examples, but it isn't worth it. I don't actually know anybody that has a college degree that has an ounce of respect for the woman.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby jhc68 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:43 pm

An idiot is a person who runs for VP of the USA and can't recall the name of a single newspaper she reads. That is definitive.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby aaronk » Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:49 pm

dustoff wrote:Fact based items:

1. She went to a terrible college and is generally uneducated/undereducated.
2. She graduated in one of the weakest majors that has essentially 0 intellectual rigor.
3. According to people within the McCain/Palin ticket, she had minimal knowledge of geography and world affairs.
4. She believes her religion should be in politics.
5. She is religious extremely religious. Extremely significant negative association between IQ and religiosity.
6. Lynn Vincent authored at least one of her books.
7. Couldn't name a single newspaper that she reads.
8. All of these quotes and more,
9. The entire e-mail fiasco.


Fact based?
Point by point:

1 & 2
So I suppose EVERYONE who graduates from a "terrible" college with a "weak" major is an idiot?
Lovely.
Tell me, do you have any family members or friends who attended "terrible" colleges with "weak" majors?
What do you think of THEM??

3
It's been proven that Steve Schmidt and Nicolle Wallace, the 2 McCain operatives in 2008 who, post-campaign, tried to DESTROY her.....LIED about her! If you want the WHOLE truth about the campaign, read "Going Rogue"! (And ignore the HBO movie, "Game Change", which is also packed with LIES!!)
ALL of her friends and her Cabinet and Staff as Governor said these accusations (about lack of knowledge) were FALSE!!

4 & 5
So I suppose that ALL religious people are idiots??
That you can't have strong religious beliefs AND be intelligent??
Beautiful.
Guess that doesn't say much for the US of A....which is considered to be quite a religious nation!!

6
FALSE!!
Vincent assisted, yes.
Palin WROTE the book!
As with most political memoirs, they are usually "as told to".
However, Palin's friends and family have all said SHE wrote the book, while Vincent maybe "tidied it up"!!
BTW, did you know there are rumors that TERRORIST Bill Ayers is said to have written Obama's 2nd book???

7
See her detailed account of the Katie Couric interviews in "Going Rogue"!
She KNEW which papers and magazines she reads!
She just didn't want to answer Couric's DUMBASS question!!
Which, BTW, Couric did NOT ask of McCain, Obama, or Biden!!

8
All the SNL/David Letterman etc shit were LIES....parodies born of HATRED and FEAR!!
They're liberals, and wanted to ridicule her!!
(Actually, she LOVED her time on SNL!!)

9
WHAT "e-mail fiasco"??
You mean when she released 25,000 e-mails from when she was Governor...and NONE of them had any damaging material in them??
In fact, they PROVED.....in black and white ink.......that she was an extremely COMPETENT, SUCCESSFUL, ASTUTE, and SUCCESSFUL (not to mention HUGELY popular!!) Governor!!
Tell me, has Obama released HIS e-mails yet??
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby Daisy » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:00 pm

odelltrclan wrote:People are WAY WAY more apt to try to deduct more than they are entitled to than less!

So I need to hire you to increase my deductions.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby TN1965 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:01 pm

odelltrclan wrote:The government wants to take tax incentives away for giving to the poor, which causes people to give less, and thus they become more reliant on government.


You mean, like a certain president who eliminated the estate tax? :wink:
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby jhc68 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:40 pm

She KNEW which papers and magazines she reads!
She just didn't want to answer Couric's DUMBASS question!!


Exactly: She KNEW she didn't read any newspapers or even the names of any newspapers so she certainly did not want to answer that question. Couric's question may have been "dumbass" but having no answer for it was over and beyond dumbass.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby lonewolf » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:32 pm

I did not think it possible but it seems I have found in dustoff someone who holds almost as much disdain for Palin as I do for Obama. :)
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby Pego » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:19 am

dustoff wrote:Palin is the worst of the worst of the neocon movement.


...with her "twin" Michelle Bachmann.
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Re: Sarah Louise Heath Palin--The TRUTH!

Postby Marlow » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:59 am

lonewolf wrote:I did not think it possible but it seems I have found in dustoff someone who holds almost as much disdain for Palin as I do for Obama. :)

Turnabout is indeed fair play! I have no problem with your issues with the President of the United States. That's what yesterday was all about.
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