The great global warming fizzle


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The great global warming fizzle

Postby Rye Catcher » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:14 am

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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby Daisy » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:24 am

I liked this part from the comments section:
People are foolish and will act in their own short-term interests. Politicians and businesses will defend sunk costs rather than push for change. They'll seize on unkowns and dismiss the science without making any attempt to understand it. And folks like you will always find a willing audience of people to agree with you, in spite of the evidence.
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby kuha » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:38 am

What an utterly foolish article.
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:09 am

More evidence of what a crap paper the WSJ has become. All of the right wing nonsense in one place.
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby lonewolf » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:00 am

We have belabored the "global warming" here several times but I did not know acceptance or rejection of the premise was a litmus test of political persuasion.

I believe the main controversy is whether GW is man made. This is where the
"carbon credit" opportunists cash in. Groups and individuals have taken advantage of the unwarranted scare to benefit but there are people on both sides of the political aisle who believe in and reject it.

The scant, disputable evidence of short term warming waxes and wanes. Both weather and climate are cyclic, locally and globally. What is indisputable is: Earth has been slowly and generally warming since the last Ice Age, 12,000-15,000 years ago without man's contribution.

Personally, I believe man is a totally insignificant creature compared to the forces of the universe and earth will do what it is gonna do despite man's puny efforts to influence the inevitable.
If you disagree, take comfort that neither of us will live long enough to be proven right or wrong.
Especially if the Mayans were right. :)
Last edited by lonewolf on Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby gh » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:02 am

Rye Catcher wrote:OK alarmist's, have a good read.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 15576.html


If you get your climate advice from an economist, I certainly hope you don't turn to the local weatherman to counsel you for investment purposes.
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby kuha » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:34 am

lonewolf wrote:We have belabored the "global warming" here several times but I did not know acceptance or rejection of the premise was a litmus test of political persuasion.


You're kidding, right? The acceptance/rejection of the scientific consensus reflects "political persuasion" rather starkly.
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby guru » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:37 am

yawn - the Earth has been warming for 18,000 years, and will continue for several thousand more. A shame there weren't scientists around to warn the cavemen of the global implications of their campfires...


edit - like lonewolf said lol :wink:
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby Marlow » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:31 am

kuha wrote:What an utterly foolish article.

Couldn't agree more!
If you choose not to heed the warnings of legit climatologists, just ask yourself: are we polluting the Earth and should we do something about THAT? Same diff.
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:33 am

lonewolf wrote:We have belabored the "global warming" here several times but I did not know acceptance or rejection of the premise was a litmus test of political persuasion.

I believe the main controversy is whether GW is man made. This is where the
"carbon credit" opportunists cash in. Groups and individuals have taken advantage of the unwarranted scare to benefit but there are people on both sides of the political aisle who believe in and reject it.

The scant, disputable evidence of short term warming waxes and wanes. Both weather and climate are cyclic, locally and globally. What is indisputable is: Earth has been slowly and generally warming since the last Ice Age, 12,000-15,000 years ago without man's contribution.

Personally, I believe man is a totally insignificant creature compared to the forces of the universe and earth will do what it is gonna do despite man's puny efforts to influence the inevitable.
If you disagree, take comfort that neither of us will live long enough to be proven right or wrong.
Especially if the Mayans were right. :)


Right on!
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby kuha » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:42 am

Thank you, gents, for proving my point so perfectly.
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:06 am

I think some of you spend too much time listening to Fox News, Rush and various clones.
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby Pego » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:06 am

When a position paper of every single Academy of Science from the industrial countries says the same thing, I tend to pay attention.
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:33 pm

kuha wrote:Thank you, gents, for proving my point so perfectly.


conor dary wrote:I think some of you spend too much time listening to Fox News, Rush and various clones.


Typically predictable responses. Liberals always like to look down their noses at those they deem beneath them and somehow always try and point to Fox News, or Rush Limbaugh as though they are the source of all things differing from their own opinions.

I happen to be friends with a scientist who spends everyday of his life studying the effects of carbon emissions, etc. on the environment, and has spent many an hour in Washington DC debunking what often is far overreaching claims of these so-called global warming experts. There are many in the scientific community. I have personally discussed many of these global warming issues (and the science behind it) with him and find him to be far more credible than any of you on the subject. So look down your noses all you want as is so typical from lefties. :roll:
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby Marlow » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:38 pm

odelltrclan wrote:so typical from lefties. :roll:

Cuz y'know, we're ALL the same . . . :roll:
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:43 pm

Marlow wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:so typical from lefties. :roll:

Cuz y'know, we're ALL the same . . . :roll:


Funny Marlow but I don't recall seeing your name quoted in what you responded to? :wink: :shock:
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:38 pm

odelltrclan wrote:
kuha wrote:Thank you, gents, for proving my point so perfectly.


conor dary wrote:I think some of you spend too much time listening to Fox News, Rush and various clones.


Typically predictable responses. Liberals always like to look down their noses at those they deem beneath them and somehow always try and point to Fox News, or Rush Limbaugh as though they are the source of all things differing from their own opinions.

I happen to be friends with a scientist who spends everyday of his life studying the effects of carbon emissions, etc. on the environment, and has spent many an hour in Washington DC debunking what often is far overreaching claims of these so-called global warming experts. There are many in the scientific community. I have personally discussed many of these global warming issues (and the science behind it) with him and find him to be far more credible than any of you on the subject. So look down your noses all you want as is so typical from lefties. :roll:


Swell you know a 'scientist'. There are 'scientists' who are creationists, even circle squarers. The right need their paid hacks.
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby Pego » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:39 pm

odelltrclan wrote:There are many in the scientific community.


Some, a very small minority of climate scientists. Would you care to respond to my simple comment, right above your post?
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:44 pm

Conor Dary wrote:Swell you know a 'scientist'. There are 'scientists' who are creationists, even circle squarers. The right need their paid hacks.


Evidence second tactic of a liberal. Demean anyone who stands in their way. Try and make them look like a lunatic. Try and discredit them without actually discussing the science. This particular scientist is well known in the global warming community and oft quoted and is likely far brighter than you ever were and ever will be.

Next smart ass response? :mrgreen:
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby jeremyp » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:44 pm

From 2008.
Human-induced global warming is real, according to a recent U.S. survey based on the opinions of 3,146 scientists. However there remains divisions between climatologists and scientists from other areas of earth sciences as to the extent of human responsibility.

The study released today was conducted by academics from the University of Illinois, who used an online questionnaire of nine questions. The scientists approached were listed in the 2007 edition of the American Geological Institute's Directory of Geoscience Departments.

Two questions were key: Have mean global temperatures risen compared to pre-1800s levels, and has human activity been a significant factor in changing mean global temperatures?

About 90 percent of the scientists agreed with the first question and 82 percent the second.

The strongest consensus on the causes of global warming came from climatologists who are active in climate research, with 97 percent agreeing humans play a role.

Petroleum geologists and meteorologists were among the biggest doubters, with only 47 percent and 64 percent, respectively, believing in human involvement.

"The petroleum geologist response is not too surprising, but the meteorologists' is very interesting," said Peter Doran associate professor of earth and environmental sciences at the University of Illinois at Chicago, and one of the survey's authors.

"Most members of the public think meteorologists know climate, but most of them actually study very short-term phenomenon."

However, Doran was not surprised by the near-unanimous agreement by climatologists.

"They're the ones who study and publish on climate science. So I guess the take-home message is, the more you know about the field of climate science, the more you're likely to believe in global warming and humankind's contribution to it.

"The debate on the authenticity of global warming and the role played by human activity is largely nonexistent among those who understand the nuances and scientific basis of long-term climate processes," said Doran.http://articles.cnn.com/2009-01-19/worl ... s=PM:WORLD


The Wall street article conveniently forgot the following: 2011 10 1$ billion dollar+ weather disasters in 2011.

As well as: Average temperatures in the Arctic region are rising twice as fast as they are elsewhere in the world. Arctic ice is getting thinner, melting and rupturing. For example, the largest single block of ice in the Arctic, the Ward Hunt Ice Shelf, had been around for 3,000 years before it started cracking in 2000. Within two years it had split all the way through and is now breaking into pieces.
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:52 pm

Pego wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:There are many in the scientific community.


Some, a very small minority of climate scientists. Would you care to respond to my simple comment, right above your post?


How would you define many? Far more than one, far more than a dozen.

I am not the scientist and what you are asking is for me to comment on specific scientific findings, much of which have many assumptions and theories and not facts. I am not qualified to do so. Nor is anyone here. I could talk specifics, but it would get long and tedious and it would be impossible for anyone to provide concrete rebuttals other than trying to find a quote from someone off the web, or some sort if idiotic insults as several on this thread often do. I doubt there would be many, if any, here that has a close friend who is "in the business" and can discuss the issues and controversial areas with someone first hand like I can.
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby Conor Dary » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:56 pm

odelltrclan wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:Swell you know a 'scientist'. There are 'scientists' who are creationists, even circle squarers. The right need their paid hacks.


Evidence second tactic of a liberal. Demean anyone who stands in their way. Try and make them look like a lunatic.


I don't think you need any help there. :roll:
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:06 pm

Conor Dary wrote:
odelltrclan wrote:
Conor Dary wrote:Swell you know a 'scientist'. There are 'scientists' who are creationists, even circle squarers. The right need their paid hacks.


Evidence second tactic of a liberal. Demean anyone who stands in their way. Try and make them look like a lunatic.


I don't think you need any help there. :roll:


Children must play . . . . play and play away!
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby jeremyp » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:08 pm

The first argument is: "there is no global warming." Along come scientists and show otherwise. Then the tactic switches to: "there's always been warming." Then the scientists show otherwise, and the tactic is: "Man doesn't cause it." The final tactic is: "you liberals are all idiots."

Now lets switch the subject to evolution. I'll start it off for the conservatives: Earth started 3,000 years ago and there was this guy called Adam. The Earth had only 2 balls and he had em.
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby Pego » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:08 pm

odelltrclan wrote: I am not qualified to do so.


Exactly. Neither am I. That is the reason why I respect evidence provided by every Academy of Sciences and well over 90% of climate scientists. You seem to listen to a small minority instead. Why? Whose attitude seems more reasonable?
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby guru » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:15 pm

jeremyp wrote:Then the tactic switches to: "there's always been warming." Then the scientists show otherwise...



Oh really?


Silly me, I must have missed the two mile thick glacier last time I was in New York. I'll look closer next time...
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby bad hammy » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:21 pm

odelltrclan wrote:Try and make them look like a lunatic.

What try? The anti-science/creationist/luddites/whatevers do great at that job. Lots of them out there - some of them have even had a few debates recently.
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby jeremyp » Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:01 am

How's that "we ain't warming up" shtick working out for you people in the East?
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby Wang Lung » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:59 pm

The sooner people recognize that governments looks upon their subjects as nothing more than livestock, the easier it will be to prepare for whatever future we decide we want to have.
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby Marlow » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:33 pm

Wang Lung wrote:The sooner people recognize that governments looks upon their subjects as nothing more than livestock, the easier it will be to prepare for whatever future we decide we want to have.

Thanks MattM. By the way, the thread's title has a typo; the first letter of the last word should be an 's'. Our contibution to the melting ice cap is no longer in question.
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby Per Andersen » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:03 pm

kuha wrote:
You're kidding, right? The acceptance/rejection of the scientific consensus reflects "political persuasion" rather starkly.

Oh, totally. I find it pathetic when all the right wingers talk about our children and grand children. Sadly, they never have the environment in mind when they spout those lines.

All this normal cycles talk gets old when you pay attention to what is happening in the oceans and on land.
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby lonewolf » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:19 pm

I deplore this annual bloodbath thread destroying twelve months of healing from insults by those with different opinions.

But, since I broke my resolution to not even open it this year and I have already pissed off most here on politics and religion, I might as welll add science.

My opinion has not changed since my 2011 post (see above). Simply stated, Global Warming is cyclic and man can neither cause or prevent it.

Further, during the intervening two years it is now reported that there has been a decline/hiatus in warming and there has been a shift away from alarmist among many "scientists".
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby Pego » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:26 am

lonewolf wrote:shift away from alarmist among many "scientists".


I have always respected your opinion on many subjects, including this one. Putting "scientists" in quotes makes one shake his head. Roughly 98% of climate scientists and all developed countries' Academies of Science signed on the man's contribution to the current climate change. That is not some fringe minority.
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Re: The great global warming fizzle

Postby Marlow » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:58 am

Pego wrote:
lonewolf wrote:shift away from alarmist among many "scientists".

I have always respected your opinion on many subjects, including this one. Roughly 98% of climate scientists and all developed countries' Academies of Science signed on the man's contribution to the current climate change. That is not some fringe minority.

Ditto. There certainly are climate cycles irrespective of man, but right now, our greenhouse gases are doing a number on the polar icecaps, far beyond anything Mother Nature had in mind.
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