Normally open July 4th only---the one day a year when partisan politics, religion, etc. are acceptable topics on this Board. (The 2012 window is now closed; thanks for playing.)
Having been involved in our local church since I was 6, Tebow reminds me more of a self centered, insecure egomaniac.
Wow, way to go. Tim Tebow is one of the most genuine and universallly loved (by people who know him in real life) pro athletes ever, and you still harbor that opinion? I'm with Marlow, sounds like a "you" problem.
Conor Dary wrote:Having been involved in our local church since I was 6, Tebow reminds me more of a self centered, insecure egomaniac. God wants me have a touchdown. Yea, right.
Reminds me of Aimee Semple McPherson.
Obviously you don't know anything about Tim Tebow.
jazzcyclist wrote:Obviously you don't know anything about Tim Tebow.
He knows that Tebow likes to flaunt his piety.[/quote]
None of us really know this young man. We do know he is a overly zealous Christman, is that so bad? We also know he needs work on his throwing. We know he is invovled with charities. I see no reason yet to dislike the young man. If he starts yelling, your all going to Hell, then I will put the Squack curse on him!
Conor Dary wrote:Having been involved in our local church since I was 6, Tebow reminds me more of a self centered, insecure egomaniac. God wants me have a touchdown. Yea, right.
Reminds me of Aimee Semple McPherson.
Obviously you don't know anything about Tim Tebow.
Conor Dary wrote:Having been involved in our local church since I was 6, Tebow reminds me more of a self centered, insecure egomaniac. God wants me have a touchdown. Yea, right.
Reminds me of Aimee Semple McPherson.
Obviously you don't know anything about Tim Tebow.
He knows that Tebow likes to flaunt his piety.
I don't think..."flaunting"....fits at all. You see him...flaunting I have no doubt if he were stranded on a deserted island he's doing the same things.
Last edited by Avante on Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Conor Dary wrote:Having been involved in our local church since I was 6, Tebow reminds me more of a self centered, insecure egomaniac. God wants me have a touchdown. Yea, right.
Reminds me of Aimee Semple McPherson.
Obviously you don't know anything about Tim Tebow.
SQUACKEE wrote:None of us really know this young man.
I live in his home town and have 'known' him for his 8 years of HS and college. You can't live here and not know a whole LOT about him. He is not self-righteous; he doesn't shove his brand of religion down your throat. He simply LIVES his religion every day as best he knows how. I admire him . . . a lot.
SQUACKEE wrote:None of us really know this young man.
I live in his home town and have 'known' him for his 8 years of HS and college. You can't live here and not know a whole LOT about him. He is not self-righteous; he doesn't shove his brand of religion down your throat. He simply LIVES his religion every day as best he knows how. I admire him . . . a lot.
Anyone who doesn't like Tim Tebow...why??????? I'm with you.
SQUACKEE wrote:None of us really know this young man.
I live in his home town and have 'known' him for his 8 years of HS and college. You can't live here and not know a whole LOT about him. He is not self-righteous; he doesn't shove his brand of religion down your throat. He simply LIVES his religion every day as best he knows how. I admire him . . . a lot.
Are you saying that you've spent a significant amount of time around him at unguarded moments?
SQUACKEE wrote:None of us really know this young man.
I live in his home town and have 'known' him for his 8 years of HS and college. You can't live here and not know a whole LOT about him. He is not self-righteous; he doesn't shove his brand of religion down your throat. He simply LIVES his religion every day as best he knows how. I admire him . . . a lot.
Anyone who doesn't like Tim Tebow...why??????? I'm with you.
They don't like him because he is the star, he is a winner, he's big, strong, athletic, and has everything they wish they could have, but don't. Even though he works hard and is charitable, they criticize his prayer. He wins, but they say he's sloppy, can't pass, runs too much.
They can't like him because he makes them look insignificant.
SQUACKEE wrote:None of us really know this young man.
I live in his home town and have 'known' him for his 8 years of HS and college. You can't live here and not know a whole LOT about him. He is not self-righteous; he doesn't shove his brand of religion down your throat. He simply LIVES his religion every day as best he knows how. I admire him . . . a lot.
Anyone who doesn't like Tim Tebow...why??????? I'm with you.
They don't like him because he is the star, he is a winner, he's big, strong, athletic, and has everything they wish they could have, but don't. Even though he works hard and is charitable, they criticize his prayer. He wins, but they say he's sloppy, can't pass, runs too much.
They can't like him because he makes them look insignificant.
Not much to add to that bit of lunacy, but I am sure you will try...
All in all this thread has deteriorated into one of the silliest ones ever... sort of a "how many Tebows can dance on the head of pin" debate.
So, joining in that spirit, I'll ask what I have been wondering since I saw the video highlights of the Broncos/Chargers debacle: When Tebow was on the bench appearing to be praying while both place kickers took their shots at winning the game was he praying for the SD guy to miss and for the Denver guy to split the uprights? And if so, do we believe that God grant prayers like that?
Vince wrote:They don't like him because he is the star, he is a winner, he's big, strong, athletic, and has everything they wish they could have, but don't. Even though he works hard and is charitable, they criticize his prayer. He wins, but they say he's sloppy, can't pass, runs too much.
They can't like him because he makes them look insignificant.
There's not much to dislike about Tebow as a football player. He's made Denver football games must-see TV and he's actually won me over despite his passing deficiency. He seems like he would have felt right at home back in the 50's and 60's when football games were broadcast in black and white. I'm expecting the Broncos to start running the wing-T any day now.
jhc68 wrote:And if so, do we believe that God grant prayers like that?
Have you ever seen the banana shots in soccer, usually from the free kicks? You don't think that's God? And how else can you explain the ref and linesman being temporarily blinded when Maradona punched the ball into the English net in 1986?
SQUACKEE wrote:None of us really know this young man.
I live in his home town and have 'known' him for his 8 years of HS and college. You can't live here and not know a whole LOT about him. He is not self-righteous; he doesn't shove his brand of religion down your throat. He simply LIVES his religion every day as best he knows how. I admire him . . . a lot.
Are you saying that you've spent a significant amount of time around him at unguarded moments?
Who here doesn't think Terrell Owens is a selfish disruptive player? Who here knows him? We are talking about Tebows pro athlete personna. It doesn't matter what these guys do in private/unguarded moments....nobody cares. It's what we the public see them doing. How they conduct themselves in public.
SQUACKEE wrote:None of us really know this young man.
I live in his home town and have 'known' him for his 8 years of HS and college. You can't live here and not know a whole LOT about him. He is not self-righteous; he doesn't shove his brand of religion down your throat. He simply LIVES his religion every day as best he knows how. I admire him . . . a lot.
Anyone who doesn't like Tim Tebow...why??????? I'm with you.
They don't like him because he is the star, he is a winner, he's big, strong, athletic, and has everything they wish they could have, but don't. Even though he works hard and is charitable, they criticize his prayer. He wins, but they say he's sloppy, can't pass, runs too much.
They can't like him because he makes them look insignificant.
I seriously doubt that on a grand scale. Obviously there is somebody somewhere who hates everyone taller than he is.
I'm guessing it's mostly those who don't trust in God and hate to see anyone praising Him that wouldn't like Tebow. Die hard football fans like myself like anything unique/different. Anytime we see something new...cool~~~~~ However....he does overdo the.."thank you Jesus"...bit. That having nothing to do with his faith, it's him doing anything repeatingly....to me.
I dig Usain Bolt, I think he's great for the sport. While I could get up right now hit the street and cook/blaze a solid 5.2 40, I can't even run a 100 yards (10.6PR) all out anymore much less a 100m. Yep no jealously
Somehow, I don't think God takes sides in football games. I am sure that on every field goal attempt there are equally fervent prayers being muttered by people on opposite sides of the field for an opposite result....and sometimes, it seems like the least deserved prayers are answered.
lonewolf wrote:Somehow, I don't think God takes sides in football games. I am sure that on every field goal attempt there are equally fervent prayers being muttered by people on opposite sides of the field for an opposite result....and sometimes, it seems like the least deserved prayers are answered.
It's more about God/Lord/Jesus giving them the strength/ability to do what they do. As opposed to..."He sure likes the Broncos".
lonewolf wrote:Somehow, I don't think God takes sides in football games. I am sure that on every field goal attempt there are equally fervent prayers being muttered by people on opposite sides of the field for an opposite result....and sometimes, it seems like the least deserved prayers are answered.
This is actually quite interesting. I started thinking about it one day watching a Mexican league soccer match.
A penalty shot. Both the shooter and the goalie cross themselves. Their prayers will be answered 100% of the time, because there either is a goal, or there isn't. The Providence consistently favors the shooter roughly 70% of the time. Its dislike of goalies is suddenly reversed for hockey.
I think I might kill this thread but I have to weigh in on this pray thingy. After what God allowed in the holocaust, it would appear that prayer is rather ineffective.
SQUACKEE wrote:I think I might kill this thread but I have to weigh in on this pray thingy. After what God allowed in the holocaust, it would appear that prayer is rather ineffective.
Godwin's Law is indeed invoked, plus, I think you are unclear on the power and purpose of prayer as most people understand it. Huck Finn prayed as hard as he could for a fish hook and didn't get one. He thereby inferred that The Big Guy didn't exist.
A famous man (well, actually it was Jim Morrison of the Doors), said something I firmly believe: "You cannot petition the Lord with prayer!"
You can, however, ask Him to give you the strength to do the right thing.
Pego wrote:The Providence consistently favors the shooter roughly 70% of the time. Its dislike of goalies is suddenly reversed for hockey.
Your assumption here is that there is one God. But what if there are two, one for soccer and one for hockey? Maybe the Greeks and Romans were correct? In UK folklore there is god-like figure called Puck, could he be your hockey god?
Last edited by Daisy on Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Marlow wrote:Godwin's Law is indeed invoked, plus, I think you are unclear on the power and purpose of prayer as most people understand it. You can, however, ask Him to give you the strength to do the right thing.
I dont think Huck Finn trumps the holocaust, do you. I am clear on what you are saying, prayers that asks for anything of real substance, like life and death of your child, are not answered. We would disagree as to why.
SQUACKEE wrote:...prayers that ask for anything of real substance, like life and death of your child, are not answered.
Would this mean that no prayers are answered? I think many would disagree with that premise.
No one knows if prayers are answered, that's why it's called faith. What we do know is millions of people's prayers to be spared the gas chamber were not answered.
SQUACKEE wrote:...prayers that ask for anything of real substance, like life and death of your child, are not answered.
Would this mean that no prayers are answered? I think many would disagree with that premise.
No one knows if prayers are answered, that's why it's called faith. What we do know is millions of people's prayers to be spared the gas chamber were not answered.
Some Orthodox rabbis claim that the Holocaust was a God's punishment for the European Jewry's secularization (abandoning kosher kitchen, lacking faith, marrying out of the faith...). Quite similar to Martin Luther's claim that the Turkish scourge was God's punishment for insufficient faith/secularization of Europe's Christians.
This thread has certainly taken a twist lately, lol.
Daisy wrote:Would this mean that no prayers are answered? I think many would disagree with that premise.
I think most circumspect religious 'believers' know that you "cannot petition the Lord with prayer". His will is 'mysterious' to man, and therefore what you may be praying for is not in the "Master Plan". When I 'pray', and Lord knows that I do on occasion (word play!), I am essentially asking for the wisdom to figure out something (could be a death) that I am struggling with. He has answered my prayer EVERY time! I may not like the answer, but I do understand it is THE answer. Atheists see this as a meeting of the minds (my consciousness, my subconsciousness and my unconscious mind that Jung introduced (but even he was a little fuzzy on it, calling it the Collective Unconscious of humanity - I believe we do share many commonalities with each other, but I, due to my DNA, have a slightly different one than everyone else)), which is fine - to each his own. I find that when I go on long (de facto painful) runs, the 'Lord' speaks to me very clearly and answers all my questions, whether I even know I was asking them or not. This could be the endorphines talking! Which brings me to one unanswered question - why does everyone else think endorphines feel good? Mine hurt!
Daisy wrote:Would this mean that no prayers are answered? I think many would disagree with that premise.
I think most circumspect religious 'believers' know that you "cannot petition the Lord with prayer". His will is 'mysterious' to man, and therefore what you may be praying for is not in the "Master Plan". When I 'pray', and Lord knows that I do on occasion (word play!), I am essentially asking for the wisdom to figure out something (could be a death) that I am struggling with. He has answered my prayer EVERY time! I may not like the answer, but I do understand it is THE answer. Atheists see this as a meeting of the minds (my consciousness, my subconsciousness and my unconscious mind that Jung introduced (but even he was a little fuzzy on it, calling it the Collective Unconscious of humanity - I believe we do share many commonalities with each other, but I, due to my DNA, have a slightly different one than everyone else)), which is fine - to each his own. I find that when I go on long (de facto painful) runs, the 'Lord' speaks to me very clearly and answers all my questions, whether I even know I was asking them or not. This could be the endorphines talking! Which brings me to one unanswered question - why does everyone else think endorphines feel good? Mine hurt!
I will leave your theology and Freudian/Jungian psychology alone, but your neuropharmacology I will respond to . Endorphins are opiates, they help you to tolerate the pain. What hurts is accumulation of metabolic byproducts in your tissues, those old creeking joints, those old inflexible ligaments...
Pego is , as usual, correct. You dont get a runner's high during the run, but once you stop and the oxygen dept is paid in full, you feel the pain killer without the pain and hence, a high!
When paired with beer, the effect is even mo better.
SQUACKEE wrote:I think I might kill this thread but I have to weigh in on this pray thingy. After what God allowed in the holocaust, it would appear that prayer is rather ineffective.
I fit more in Daisy's camp, although I grew up as a 'preacher's kid. However, the comment made about prayer for some people 'giving them strength' could be seen as a factor in a number of the (all-to-few) escape stories in the holocaust. I just got back from the wedding of my wife's (second) cousin. I talked with a number of the family members that came over from Europe. There were various stories for strength, sometimes at least loosely linked to prayer, among those few survivors (in one case, the only one of ten siblings). Much of my wife's very immediate family were lucky, often in the assistance that they received; the rest not so much.
SQUACKEE wrote:I think I might kill this thread but I have to weigh in on this pray thingy. After what God allowed in the holocaust, it would appear that prayer is rather ineffective.
I fit more in Daisy's camp, although I grew up as a 'preacher's kid. However, the comment made about prayer for some people 'giving them strength' could be seen as a factor in a number of the (all-to-few) escape stories in the holocaust. I just got back from the wedding of my wife's (second) cousin. I talked with a number of the family members that came over from Europe. There were various stories for strength, sometimes at least loosely linked to prayer, among those few survivors (in one case, the only one of ten siblings). Much of my wife's very immediate family were lucky, often in the assistance that they received; the rest not so much.
Prayer is part of the human condition, there are no atheists on a jetliner that's going into a nose dive. Belief in prayer would certainly help people in times of trouble. I have prayed to a God I dont believe in.....just in case.
Pego wrote:Endorphins are opiates, they help you to tolerate the pain. What hurts is accumulation of metabolic byproducts in your tissues, those old creeking joints, those old inflexible ligaments...
Then either my opiates are too weak or my met-byproducts are too strong, cuz this mythical creature called 'runners high' . . . there ain't no sucha thang, that I'm aware of. The only thing that feels good to me in exercise is its cessation!
Marlow wrote:Q - Why are banging your head against the wall?
At the risk of reducing you to a cliche, you might be immune to the pleasure of endorphins because of the fact that you are a sugar eating, easy going teetoler who is comfortable in his own skin and doesnt suffer from mucho pathos and self-hatred.
When a stress puppet, with depression and self hatred gets his fix of endorphins, all is right with the world.
I have no doubt if he were stranded on a deserted island he's doing the same things.
Wow, way to go. Tim Tebow is one of the most genuine and universallly loved (by people who know him in real life) pro athletes ever, and you still harbor that opinion? I'm with Marlow, sounds like a "you" problem.