Kentucky: Most Embarrassing


Normally open July 4th only---the one day a year when partisan politics, religion, etc. are acceptable topics on this Board (within reason). The forum is now closed.

Re: Kentucky: Most Embarrassing

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue May 25, 2010 7:07 pm

odelltrclan wrote:I am not quite sure where you are going with that quote as it seems a tad bit derogatory, but, being a "bible thumper" (meaning I believe in God and am pro-life) and having a very large association of people who do, most of us that I am aware of do feel that in the cases of rape and incest that abortion is an acceptable alternative at the choice of the mother.

Do you believe that an unborn fetus that is the product of a rape or incest is less precious and valuable than an unborn fetus that is not the product of a rape or incest? By the way, the term "bible thumper", the way I use it, refers to a person who wears their Christianity on their sleeves, and often has a tendency to make references to Jesus, God or the Bible during discussions of contemporary politics. Tim Tebow is someone who I would refer to as a bible thumper.
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Re: Kentucky: Most Embarrassing

Postby lonewolf » Tue May 25, 2010 7:31 pm

Contemporary society defines and attributes sundry policies as conservative or liberal. It is a continuously evolving process and some planks may eventually appear on the opposite platform. People's personal convictions cause them to agree with policies on both sides of the fray and those convictions can be swayed by admiration of or animosity toward personalities.
Posters on this forum have inevitably outed themselves as "liberal" or "conservative" by their remarks.. doesn't mean either side is 100% right or wrong.. although "radicals" on both sides may think so..
I live in a state that registers overwhelmingly Democrat and votes overwhelmingly Republican...even our occasional Democratic Representives or Senators tend to vote Republican because the people they represent, who may be registered Democrats out of political reality/necessity in their county, tell them they favor the majority of the policies of the other party...I am sure this is true in other places and goes both ways.. so much for labels..
I suppose I am a "Christian agnostic with doubts" who contemporary society labels conservative because I seem to disagree with most of the policies advocated by those whom contemporary society labels liberal..
I don't want to define conception or draw up a check list of circumstances making abortion permissable.. or not. IMO, abortion is not a religious or political issue. It is a personal decision that only the affected person, influenced by internal conviction and circumstances, can make so I will just butt out.
A non-politically exclusive issue about which I am not reticent to speak is amnesty/illegal aliens. Administrations of both parties have been criminally negligent in enforcing immigration laws, some to curry votes, some to smooze supporters with an agenda, some from bleeding heart coviction.. all wrong.. No nation is obligated or able to absorb the overflow from the world at the expense of its legal inhabitants and I am not aware of any other nation that is so remiss in enforcing its immigration laws.

I yield the soapbox.
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Re: Kentucky: Most Embarrassing

Postby odelltrclan » Tue May 25, 2010 8:44 pm

Well Jazz, maybe I am a "Bible Thumper" because I seem to be one that fits your description. While life is sacred to me, I can see how some people may view children born out of incest or rape is still dangerous to the life of the mother, if not physically, certainly emotionally. Therefore, a certain level of compassion must be given when dealing with that. If a mother can deal with the emotional consequences and give birth and either raise the child or put it up for adoption then I can see that may be a preferable course of action.

Lonewolf, I am a resident of Arizona and am very angry with the media's self righteous depiction of Arizonans as racist. I find it hypocritical that we are labeled as racists by bigots. I mean, the law as written is clear that "racial profiling" is not allowed. Yet, the "it could lead to" crowd has already passed judgement. One can only wonder why people are opposed to Arizona taking matters into their own hands when a federal government refuses to deal with the issue (a law they will not enforce). Why do they not want to deal with it? Political gains. My belief is it is all a vote grab issue and nothing more. They are using the media to paint us as racists and this BS racism / class warfare is dividing this country more and more.
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Re: Kentucky: Most Embarrassing

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:01 pm

odelltrclan wrote:While life is sacred to me, I can see how some people may view children born out of incest or rape is still dangerous to the life of the mother, if not physically, certainly emotionally. Therefore, a certain level of compassion must be given when dealing with that. If a mother can deal with the emotional consequences and give birth and either raise the child or put it up for adoption then I can see that may be a preferable course of action.

Odel, you never answered the question, so let me repeat it: Do you believe that an unborn fetus that is the product of rape or incest is less precious and valuable than an unborn fetus that is not the product of rape or incest? The reason that I'm belaboring this point is because it is my understanding that folks such as yourself equate abortion with murder. So if you believe that all unborn fetuses are not equal, then I understand your logic perfectly. If on the other hand, you believe that all unborn fetuses are equally valuable and precious, I don't understand why a Christian like you wouldn't feel morally obligated to give them all equal protection under the criminal justice system.
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Re: Kentucky: Most Embarrassing

Postby Marlow » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:31 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:I don't understand why a Christian like you wouldn't feel morally obligated to give them all equal protection under the criminal justice system.


Abortion debates are ALWAYS doomed to failure, because the passions are so overt. While I am dead set against abortions, that only relates to MY body, and since I can't get pregnant, I have no vote. Jazz, for you to tell a woman she canNOT abort is tantamount to a woman stranger telling you what you can and cannot do with your body. I realize you cannot agree with that, but that's my point; there is little agreement between the Pro-Life and Pro-Choice camps. The only thing I know is that I am 100% against anyone else deciding what MY morality should be.
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Re: Kentucky: Most Embarrassing

Postby gh » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:43 pm

hasn't SOuth Carolina won the title? The state Jon Stewart now calls "America's whoopee cushion."
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Re: Kentucky: Most Embarrassing

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:55 pm

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:I don't understand why a Christian like you wouldn't feel morally obligated to give them all equal protection under the criminal justice system.


Abortion debates are ALWAYS doomed to failure, because the passions are so overt. While I am dead set against abortions, that only relates to MY body, and since I can't get pregnant, I have no vote. Jazz, for you to tell a woman she canNOT abort is tantamount to a woman stranger telling you what you can and cannot do with your body. I realize you cannot agree with that, but that's my point; there is little agreement between the Pro-Life and Pro-Choice camps. The only thing I know is that I am 100% against anyone else deciding what MY morality should be.

You completely missed the point that I was trying to make. Go back 8 to 10 posts to see what led up to my post. For the record, I'm pro-choice, but I understand the law-and-order angle of the pro-life folks. Odelltrclan is a self-confessed conservative Christian who seems to be a pro-lifer sometimes and a pro-choicer on other occasions and I was trying to understand the logic of his positions.
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Re: Kentucky: Most Embarrassing

Postby Marlow » Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:43 pm

jazzcyclist wrote: For the record, I'm pro-choice.

:oops: My bad.
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