Normally open July 4th only---the one day a year when partisan politics, religion, etc. are acceptable topics on this Board. (The 2012 window is now closed; thanks for playing.)
dal4018 wrote:I watched the "Rachel Maddows" Show yesterday and I think Obama should have stated that no one is doubting the Holocaust took place just that ppl want an accurate count of how many died at the hands of Hitler.Ppl are starting to doubt the historical figure of 6 million.
What's "ppl"?
People and Obama should have mentioned the Nabka to let the world know the plight of the Arabs and Palestinians everyone knows about the jews and the holocaust but not enough of the world knows about the Nabka and the effects that it has on the aformentioned Arabs and Palestine.
No Daisy me personally I follow Richard Williams the Catholic priest when it comes to the Holocaust he doesn't believe that historic figure of 6 million that has been drummed into the collective conscience of the world he as I would like a truly accurate count of how many truly died at the hands of Hitler &company.
lonewolf wrote:I can't hold it till free speech month. Am I the only person here who is not enchanted by Obama and is alarmed by his politcs or is it I am the only one not afraid to dissent? Apparently praising Obama is not politcal but criticizing him is????
I don't think there's anything wrong with you. You're just the product of your times. As a matter of fact, based on the demographics of the exit polls, you would be an outlier if you were enchanted by Obama.
No Daisy me personally I follow Richard Williams the Catholic priest when it comes to the Holocaust he doesn't believe that historic figure of 6 million that has been drummed into the collective conscience of the world he as I would like a truly accurate count of how many truly died at the hands of Hitler &company.
Whether it was 6 million, 5.4 million (a more precise figure that I've read) or some other figure, what difference does it make? Once you get into the millions, why quibble over a few hundred thousand. Pol Pot killed 3 million while Stalin is supposed to be responsible for the death of 20 million. All of these men were equally evil in my book. Even if some day in the future, reputable historians revised the six million figure down to five million, I don't think it would lessen the significance of the Holocaust.
A long overdue & plain spoken speech that was partially heart & ideologically felt. President Obama said some things that both sides needed to hear and I think what was said will reasonate well with folks.
Now if the politicians can actually come to some sort of plan of action that will enable and empower both sides as opposed to ostarcizing folks....that'll be the true test.
No Daisy me personally I follow Richard Williams the Catholic priest when it comes to the Holocaust he doesn't believe that historic figure of 6 million that has been drummed into the collective conscience of the world he as I would like a truly accurate count of how many truly died at the hands of Hitler &company.
Whether it was 6 million, 5.4 million (a more precise figure that I've read) or some other figure, what difference does it make? Once you get into the millions, why quibble over a few hundred thousand. Pol Pot killed 3 million while Stalin is supposed to be responsible for the death of 20 million. All of these men were equally evil in my book. Even if some day in the future, reputable historians revised the six million figure down to five million, I don't think it would lessen the significance of the Holocaust.
No Daisy me personally I follow Richard Williams the Catholic priest when it comes to the Holocaust he doesn't believe that historic figure of 6 million that has been drummed into the collective conscience of the world he as I would like a truly accurate count of how many truly died at the hands of Hitler &company.
Whether it was 6 million, 5.4 million (a more precise figure that I've read) or some other figure, what difference does it make? Once you get into the millions, why quibble over a few hundred thousand. Pol Pot killed 3 million while Stalin is supposed to be responsible for the death of 20 million. All of these men were equally evil in my book. Even if some day in the future, reputable historians revised the six million figure down to five million, I don't think it would lessen the significance of the Holocaust.
Eggsactly- imagine someone saying Stalin is worse than Hitler cause Hitler only killed 5-6 million. They are both equal monsters. Hitler would have killed a billion Jews if he had the opportunity.
dal4018 wrote:I follow Richard Williams the Catholic priest
I'm not familiar with Williamson, is there a significant difference in his perspective compared to Irving?
As stated before he's a Catholic priest who doesn't believe the historical figure of 6 million that's been handed down thru the history books Williams isn't denying what happened that's the difference between him and Irving.
No Daisy me personally I follow Richard Williams the Catholic priest when it comes to the Holocaust he doesn't believe that historic figure of 6 million that has been drummed into the collective conscience of the world he as I would like a truly accurate count of how many truly died at the hands of Hitler &company.
Whether it was 6 million, 5.4 million (a more precise figure that I've read) or some other figure, what difference does it make? Once you get into the millions, why quibble over a few hundred thousand. Pol Pot killed 3 million while Stalin is supposed to be responsible for the death of 20 million. All of these men were equally evil in my book. Even if some day in the future, reputable historians revised the six million figure down to five million, I don't think it would lessen the significance of the Holocaust.
Eggsactly- imagine someone saying Stalin is worse than Hitler cause Hitler only killed 5-6 million. They are both equal monsters. Hitler would have killed a billion Jews if he had the opportunity.
Hey in a sense Stalin was worse than Hitler but the history books only recognize Hitler and his evil deeds,Stalin was reponsible for the deaths of 40 million innocent people but no one talks about it in the same fashion as they would Hitler.
No Daisy me personally I follow Richard Williams the Catholic priest when it comes to the Holocaust he doesn't believe that historic figure of 6 million that has been drummed into the collective conscience of the world he as I would like a truly accurate count of how many truly died at the hands of Hitler &company.
There is a lot of things, people believe. Flat earth, time travel, all sorts of nonsense. Williams is a Holocaust denier that got the Pope a lot of heat. As jazzcyclist said, 6 million, or 5 makes no difference in judging the monstrosity of it. Williams denies, it ever happened.
Obama said in his speech that we shouldn't be prisoners to the past we shouldn't forget it either someone once said"Those who forget the past are bound to repeat it" and "If you don't know your past you will not know your future"Both statements were made by MLK Jr.
No Daisy me personally I follow Richard Williams the Catholic priest when it comes to the Holocaust he doesn't believe that historic figure of 6 million that has been drummed into the collective conscience of the world he as I would like a truly accurate count of how many truly died at the hands of Hitler &company.
Whether it was 6 million, 5.4 million (a more precise figure that I've read) or some other figure, what difference does it make? Once you get into the millions, why quibble over a few hundred thousand. Pol Pot killed 3 million while Stalin is supposed to be responsible for the death of 20 million. All of these men were equally evil in my book. Even if some day in the future, reputable historians revised the six million figure down to five million, I don't think it would lessen the significance of the Holocaust.
Eggsactly- imagine someone saying Stalin is worse than Hitler cause Hitler only killed 5-6 million. They are both equal monsters. Hitler would have killed a billion Jews if he had the opportunity.
Hey in a sense Stalin was worse than Hitler but the history books only recognize Hitler and his evil deeds,Stalin was reponsible for the deaths of 40 million innocent people but no one talks about it in the same fashion as they would Hitler.
Stalin never singled out a group of people based on their nationality, or religion. He eliminated those that were considered "class enemies". You'd better do some research before you start delivering sweeping opinions.
If someone is alarmed at Obamas politics,then where were you when Bush was screwing our country using sandpaper for a condom.We need to worry about some of these nuts we have in this country,but Im glad he is trying to bridge the gap of hatred in the world.
dal4018 wrote:Obama said in his speech that we shouldn't be prisoners to the past we shouldn't forget it either someone once said"Those who forget the past are bound to repeat it" and "If you don't know your past you will not know your future"Both statements were made by MLK Jr.
Wrong again.
GEORGE SANTAYANA: "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
No Daisy me personally I follow Richard Williams the Catholic priest when it comes to the Holocaust he doesn't believe that historic figure of 6 million that has been drummed into the collective conscience of the world he as I would like a truly accurate count of how many truly died at the hands of Hitler &company.
Whether it was 6 million, 5.4 million (a more precise figure that I've read) or some other figure, what difference does it make? Once you get into the millions, why quibble over a few hundred thousand. Pol Pot killed 3 million while Stalin is supposed to be responsible for the death of 20 million. All of these men were equally evil in my book. Even if some day in the future, reputable historians revised the six million figure down to five million, I don't think it would lessen the significance of the Holocaust.
Eggsactly- imagine someone saying Stalin is worse than Hitler cause Hitler only killed 5-6 million. They are both equal monsters. Hitler would have killed a billion Jews if he had the opportunity.
Hey in a sense Stalin was worse than Hitler but the history books only recognize Hitler and his evil deeds,Stalin was reponsible for the deaths of 40 million innocent people but no one talks about it in the same fashion as they would Hitler.
Stalin never singled out a group of people based on their nationality, or religion. He eliminated those that were considered "class enemies". You'd better do some research before you start delivering sweeping opinions.
Yes but none the less he gave the authorization to murder innocent people and as stated before its not mentioned in the history books as is the case with Hitler.
dal4018 wrote:As stated before he's a Catholic priest
You mean was a priest, he was excommunicated.
dal4018 wrote:Williams isn't denying what happened that's the difference between him and Irving.
Williamson and Irving are in cahoots, I see no clear distinction.
dal4018 wrote:Yes but none the less he gave the authorization to murder innocent people and as stated before its not mentioned in the history books as is the case with Hitler.
Which ones don't mention it?
Last edited by Daisy on Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pego wrote:Stalin never singled out a group of people based on their nationality, or religion. He eliminated those that were considered "class enemies". You'd better do some research before you start delivering sweeping opinions.
Yes but none the less he gave the authorization to murder innocent people and as stated before its not mentioned in the history books as is the case with Hitler.
dal4018 wrote:Obama said in his speech that we shouldn't be prisoners to the past we shouldn't forget it either someone once said"Those who forget the past are bound to repeat it" and "If you don't know your past you will not know your future"Both statements were made by MLK Jr.
Wrong again.
GEORGE SANTAYANA: "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
Pego wrote:Stalin never singled out a group of people based on their nationality, or religion. He eliminated those that were considered "class enemies". You'd better do some research before you start delivering sweeping opinions.
Yes but none the less he gave the authorization to murder innocent people and as stated before its not mentioned in the history books as is the case with Hitler.
You're reading the wrong history books.
Then what books should I be reading sir wrong is wrong no matter who initiated the crime.In general discussion when it comes to WWII Hitler's name is always mention first.
Last edited by dal4018 on Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pego wrote:Stalin never singled out a group of people based on their nationality, or religion. He eliminated those that were considered "class enemies". You'd better do some research before you start delivering sweeping opinions.
Yes but none the less he gave the authorization to murder innocent people and as stated before its not mentioned in the history books as is the case with Hitler.
You're reading the wrong history books.
I must say my History books DID mention this guy name Stalin..quite a lot in fact, maybe it was a really expensive history book.
SQUACKEE wrote:I must say my History books DID mention this guy name Stalin..quite a lot in fact, maybe it was a really expensive history book.
It was interesting how Stalin thought he could rewrite history. Especially cutting people out of photo's when they fell out of favour. May be xcfan is reading Stalin's autobiography? I expect he paints himself as a good guy.
Last edited by Daisy on Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pego wrote:Stalin never singled out a group of people based on their nationality, or religion. He eliminated those that were considered "class enemies". You'd better do some research before you start delivering sweeping opinions.
Yes but none the less he gave the authorization to murder innocent people and as stated before its not mentioned in the history books as is the case with Hitler.
You're reading the wrong history books.
I must say my History books DID mention this guy name Stalin..quite a lot in fact, maybe it was a really expensive history book.
Yes but as stated before in general discussion Hitler's name is always brought up first when the subject of WWII is mentioned.
SQUACKEE wrote:I must say my History books DID mention this guy name Stalin..quite a lot in fact, maybe it was a really expensive history book.
It was interesting how Stalin thought he could rewrite history. Especially cutting people out of photo's when they fell out of favour. May be xcfan is reading Stalin's autobiography? I expect he paints himself as a good guy.
Trust me Squackee I'am not painting Stalin as a good guy anything but.He was a control freak as is the case with anyone in his position if he felt you were against him you were eliminated point blank as Daisy's aforementioned photos show.
Last edited by dal4018 on Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
dal4018 wrote:[Yes but as stated before in general discussion Hitler's name is always brought up first when the subject of WWII is mentioned.
You said Stalin was not mentioned, maybe you didnt mean it literally?
dal4018-quote-Yes but none the less he gave the authorization to murder innocent people and as stated before its not mentioned in the history books as is the case with Hitler
dal4018 wrote:Hitler's name is always brought up first when the subject of WWII is mentioned.
Recall that Stalin was one of the allies. It's a complex story.
dal4018 wrote:I'am not painting Stalin as a good guy anything but.
No one said you are. ????
Okay thanks and no one mentions the unclean closet of the man sitting to the left of FDR and the wrongs he did either and he too was one of the allies.
Pego wrote:Stalin never singled out a group of people based on their nationality, or religion. He eliminated those that were considered "class enemies". You'd better do some research before you start delivering sweeping opinions.
Yes but none the less he gave the authorization to murder innocent people and as stated before its not mentioned in the history books as is the case with Hitler.
You're reading the wrong history books.
I must say my History books DID mention this guy name Stalin..quite a lot in fact, maybe it was a really expensive history book.
Yes but as stated before in general discussion Hitler's name is always brought up first when the subject of WWII is mentioned.
There is several reasons for this. Stalin's atrocities mostly took place before WWII. Stalin did not start the war, the Soviet Union was attacked by Hitler just as most of Europe was.
dal4018 wrote:[Yes but as stated before in general discussion Hitler's name is always brought up first when the subject of WWII is mentioned.
You said Stalin was not mentioned, maybe you didnt mean it literally?
dal4018-quote-Yes but none the less he gave the authorization to murder innocent people and as stated before its not mentioned in the history books as is the case with Hitler
My apologies squackee I should have used the term general discussion.
dal4018 wrote:Hitler's name is always brought up first when the subject of WWII is mentioned.
Recall that Stalin was one of the allies. It's a complex story.
dal4018 wrote:I'am not painting Stalin as a good guy anything but.
No one said you are. ????
Okay thanks and no one mentions the unclean closet of the man sitting to the left of FDR and the wrongs he did either and he too was one of the allies.
The man sitting to the left of FDR is Stalin, and lots of people have mentioned his unclean closet, even in this thread.
Pego wrote:Stalin never singled out a group of people based on their nationality, or religion. He eliminated those that were considered "class enemies". You'd better do some research before you start delivering sweeping opinions.
Yes but none the less he gave the authorization to murder innocent people and as stated before its not mentioned in the history books as is the case with Hitler.
You're reading the wrong history books.
I must say my History books DID mention this guy name Stalin..quite a lot in fact, maybe it was a really expensive history book.
Yes but as stated before in general discussion Hitler's name is always brought up first when the subject of WWII is mentioned.
There is several reasons for this. Stalin's atrocities mostly took place before WWII. Stalin did not start the war, the Soviet Union was attacked by Hitler just as most of Europe was.
Okay granted why didn't someone bring these atrocities to the worlds attention???????
dal4018 wrote:Okay thanks and no one mentions the unclean closet of the man sitting to the left of FDR and the wrongs he did either and he too was one of the allies.
Not true. It has been touched on before. Probably quite a few times.
tandfman wrote:The man sitting to the left of FDR is Stalin.
From the context i had assumed he meant to the left of the picture. i.e. Churchill.
Last edited by Daisy on Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
dal4018 wrote:Hitler's name is always brought up first when the subject of WWII is mentioned.
Recall that Stalin was one of the allies. It's a complex story.
dal4018 wrote:I'am not painting Stalin as a good guy anything but.
No one said you are. ????
Okay thanks and no one mentions the unclean closet of the man sitting to the left of FDR and the wrongs he did either and he too was one of the allies.
The man sitting to the left of FDR is Stalin, and lots of people have mentioned his unclean closet, even in this thread.
Pego wrote:Stalin never singled out a group of people based on their nationality, or religion. He eliminated those that were considered "class enemies". You'd better do some research before you start delivering sweeping opinions.
Yes but none the less he gave the authorization to murder innocent people and as stated before its not mentioned in the history books as is the case with Hitler.
You're reading the wrong history books.
I must say my History books DID mention this guy name Stalin..quite a lot in fact, maybe it was a really expensive history book.
Yes but as stated before in general discussion Hitler's name is always brought up first when the subject of WWII is mentioned.
There is several reasons for this. Stalin's atrocities mostly took place before WWII. Stalin did not start the war, the Soviet Union was attacked by Hitler just as most of Europe was.
Okay granted why didn't someone bring these atrocities to the worlds attention???????
It became a public knowledge after Stalin's death. Khrushchov was the one spilling the beans. Stalin died in 1953, the revelation came about a year or two later. Maybe late, but still quite some time ago.
