California's same-sex marriage battle


Normally open July 4th only---the one day a year when partisan politics, religion, etc. are acceptable topics on this Board (within reason). The forum is now closed.

Postby bad hammy » Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:33 pm

tandfman wrote:
gm wrote:It would be fine with me if government entities withdrew all support for marriage/family issues, then people could do what they want. No more tax breaks,

Tax breaks? I believe until fairly recently there was actually a tax penalty for being married. Two people earning approximately the same amount of money paid significantly more in federal income taxes if they were married filing a joint return than they would have if they had been single filing separate returns.

Still do. It is why mrs. hammy and I, together for over 17 years, are still not married.
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Postby kuha » Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:36 pm

It's obvious that gm is NOT married. OR, he's so perpetually blissed out in matrimonial Nirvana that he pays no attention whatever to such grubby details of life as tax returns...
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Postby mump boy » Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:08 pm

tandfman wrote:But do the civil partners have all of the legal rights that spouses have?


it's my understanding that all the rights and responsibilities are the same but nobody wants to marry (sorry civily partner) me so i haven't put it to the test yet :cry
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Postby tandfman » Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:11 pm

I'm not sure what he would say about same-sex marriages, but a former boss of mine once advised me that "marriage is the smartest mistake you can ever make."
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Postby AthleticsInBritain » Fri Oct 31, 2008 6:51 pm

mump boy wrote:it's my understanding that all the rights and responsibilities are the same but nobody wants to marry (sorry civily partner) me so i haven't put it to the test yet :cry


I'll do it mump boy, if we get to 40 and we're both still single! :lol: Then at least we've got a back up! ;) (I wonder how many people would freak out reading a gay marriage proposal on the internet? Disclaimer: I have never met mump boy or even had a conversation with him outside the confines of various message boards. Goodness only knows what we'd be letting ourselves in for).

"Will you civilly partner me?" just doesn't have the same touch of romance about it though. Do gays get down on one knee? Is it acceptable for a man to wear an engagement ring? On the other hand, if you've been disinherited by the in-laws for being gay then at least you won't have to spend Christmas with them. In separate rooms. :(
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Postby Per Andersen » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:29 pm

SQUACKEE wrote:

My point was i believe Obama and Biden are pro gay marriage but they wont say it for political reasons, im i wrong?

Yes, you are wrong. Obama is against gay marriage for religious reasons. Sometimes things are what they seem.

He is not particularly left leaning. You don't have to worry about him banning handguns or opposing the death penalty.
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Postby Flumpy » Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:38 am

Per Andersen wrote:
He is not particularly left leaning. You don't have to worry about him banning handguns or opposing the death penalty.


Nobody's worrying about that, they're far more worried about the communist dictatorship that's about to be put in place!!! :shock:
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Postby mump boy » Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:57 am

Flumpy wrote:
Per Andersen wrote:
He is not particularly left leaning. You don't have to worry about him banning handguns or opposing the death penalty.


Nobody's worrying about that, they're far more worried about the communist dictatorship that's about to be put in place!!! :shock:


islamic, communist, dictatorship :x :x
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Postby mump boy » Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:01 am

AthleticsInBritain wrote:
mump boy wrote:it's my understanding that all the rights and responsibilities are the same but nobody wants to marry (sorry civily partner) me so i haven't put it to the test yet :cry


I'll do it mump boy, if we get to 40 and we're both still single! :lol: Then at least we've got a back up! ;) (I wonder how many people would freak out reading a gay marriage proposal on the internet? Disclaimer: I have never met mump boy or even had a conversation with him outside the confines of various message boards. Goodness only knows what we'd be letting ourselves in for).

"Will you civilly partner me?" just doesn't have the same touch of romance about it though. Do gays get down on one knee? Is it acceptable for a man to wear an engagement ring? On the other hand, if you've been disinherited by the in-laws for being gay then at least you won't have to spend Christmas with them. In separate rooms. :(


hey don't laugh you may have a deal :wink:

T&FN first wedding you're all invited :D i want to hold it during a major champ and Merlene Ottey, Anna Quirot and Turinesh Dibaba as brides maids :P
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Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:15 am

imaginative wrote:
Helen S wrote:I keep hoping for some scientist to accomplish human parthenogenisis by somehow bringing an unfertilized egg to adulthood (or a sperm cell) so then the evangelicals will have to consider the destruction of all unfertilized eggs or unused sperm MURDER also. That will shake things up a bit!


I believe that the catholics once considered masturbation and coitus
interuptus evil, because it deprived a child of the chance of being
born. The concept would then not be entirely new. (Obviously,
extending it to each individual sperm/egg would be.)

The Catholic church is still against birth control, but I don't know of any Catholics who have families the size of the families that Catholics from my grandparents' generation had. And the leaders of our faith are unequivocal in their opposition to the death penalty, but I know many Catholics who support it.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:18 am

Comedian Wanda Sykes once said, "I don't why so many people are worried about gay marriage. Gays didn't wreck my marriage, it was divorce that wrecked my marriage."
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Postby Pego » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:40 am

imaginative wrote:
Helen S wrote:I keep hoping for some scientist to accomplish human parthenogenisis by somehow bringing an unfertilized egg to adulthood (or a sperm cell) so then the evangelicals will have to consider the destruction of all unfertilized eggs or unused sperm MURDER also. That will shake things up a bit!


I believe that the catholics once considered masturbation and coitus
interuptus evil, because it deprived a child of the chance of being
born. The concept would then not be entirely new. (Obviously,
extending it to each individual sperm/egg would be.)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onan
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Postby Marlow » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:47 am

Pego wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onan


Ah yes, Onan, the Master Barbarian!
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Postby tandfman » Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:51 am

tandfman wrote:
SQUACKEE wrote:Biden says he and Obama do not support redefining marriage.

They don't have to support it. They just have to let the states decide issues like that. It isn't, and shouldn't be, a federal issue.

By the way, that is apparently McCain's position on this. He opposes same-sex marriages but voted against making that a Federal law on the grounds that this was something that should be left to the states.
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Postby jhc68 » Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:25 pm

How can it possibly NOT be a federal issue??? If a gay married couple move from state to state is their relationship defined by the laws of the new state or the old? Can a marriage contract be invalidated by moving from one state to another? Is it possible to be married in California but not in Utah?

Does the "full faith & credit" clause of the Constitution apply? Isn't throwing this to the states sort of the same as allowing states to make their own laws about slavery? Dred Scott in 1857 presented the same issues... was Scott a freeman forever because he had lived in a free state, or a slave forever because he had that status in slave states? Some politician back then said something about a house divided against itself not standing... how can we have different rules from state to state about such a basic social and legal contractual relationship?
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Postby Marlow » Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:48 pm

jhc68 wrote:Does the "full faith & credit" clause of the Constitution apply?


How about the inalienable right to 'pursuit of happiness'? I still don't understand how a gay marriage infringes on other people's rights. No one has to associate with people they don't want to. If my religion bans shellfish, can I insist you don't eat crawdaddies?
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Postby tandfman » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:29 pm

jhc68 wrote:how can we have different rules from state to state about such a basic social and legal contractual relationship?

We do now. The Union stands.
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Postby Cyril » Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:06 pm

Here is Obama's response about prop. 8 which would ban gay marriage...

"I think it's unnecessary," Obama told Sway, in response to a question sent in by Gangstagigz from San Leandro, California. "I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage. But when you start playing around with constitutions, just to prohibit somebody who cares about another person, it just seems to me that's not what America's about. Usually, our constitutions expand liberties, they don't contract them."

This is political speak at its finest. He is keeping his "religious core" in tact while at the same time maintaining his intellectual constitutional integrity.

We know where he really stands. He understands civil liberties and is a constitutional scholar.

The opposition to gay marriage is strictly religiously based and has no place intermingling with constitutional liberties.
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Postby EPelle » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:53 pm

Marlow wrote:
jhc68 wrote:Does the "full faith & credit" clause of the Constitution apply?


How about the inalienable right to 'pursuit of happiness'?

I believe that was aptly answered in "Pursuit of Happyness", honestly.
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Postby Daisy » Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:03 am

Marlow wrote:
Pego wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onan


Ah yes, Onan, the Master Barbarian!


Clever. :lol:
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Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:45 am

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Postby Vince » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:04 pm

kuha wrote:This is one of those issues that, in the not too distant future, the huge majority of people will simply shake their heads and say, with disbelief and pity, "Why was there any fuss at all about this back then?"


That's because we will probably have legal adult Polygamy and legal adult incest. I'm not sure what will come after that though.
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Postby gm » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:25 pm

Vince wrote:
kuha wrote:This is one of those issues that, in the not too distant future, the huge majority of people will simply shake their heads and say, with disbelief and pity, "Why was there any fuss at all about this back then?"


That's because we will probably have legal adult Polygamy and legal adult incest. I'm not sure what will come after that though.


Man's best friend? The happy couple, Larry and Rover?
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Postby Daisy » Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:03 pm

gm wrote:
Vince wrote:
kuha wrote:This is one of those issues that, in the not too distant future, the huge majority of people will simply shake their heads and say, with disbelief and pity, "Why was there any fuss at all about this back then?"


That's because we will probably have legal adult Polygamy and legal adult incest. I'm not sure what will come after that though.


Man's best friend? The happy couple, Larry and Rover?


More likely Emily and Rover. The men will be too busy protecting the homesteads.
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Postby mump boy » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:20 am

Vince wrote:
kuha wrote:This is one of those issues that, in the not too distant future, the huge majority of people will simply shake their heads and say, with disbelief and pity, "Why was there any fuss at all about this back then?"


That's because we will probably have legal adult Polygamy and legal adult incest. I'm not sure what will come after that though.


because gay marriage is the slipperly slope towards polygamy, incest and bestiality !??!?! :roll:
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Postby tandfman » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:53 am

mump boy wrote:gay marriage is the slipperly slope towards polygamy, incest and bestiality !??!?! :roll:

And worse! (I'll let you know what's worse when I think of it.) :)
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Postby SQUACKEE » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:56 am

tandfman wrote:
mump boy wrote:gay marriage is the slipperly slope towards polygamy, incest and bestiality !??!?! :roll:

And worse! (I'll let you know what's worse when I think of it.) :)


I got it! Cats marrying dogs. :P
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Postby Marlow » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:13 am

SQUACKEE wrote: got it! Cats marrying dogs. :P

Been there, done that. When my wife gets catty, I end up in the dog house.
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Postby paulthefan » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:42 am

the real interesting question is not when people in the us will stop rejecting gay "marriage" it is when will the (blue) state higher courts stop rejecting the peoples decision?
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Postby Flumpy » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:22 am

mump boy wrote:
Vince wrote:
kuha wrote:This is one of those issues that, in the not too distant future, the huge majority of people will simply shake their heads and say, with disbelief and pity, "Why was there any fuss at all about this back then?"


That's because we will probably have legal adult Polygamy and legal adult incest. I'm not sure what will come after that though.


because gay marriage is the slipperly slope towards polygamy, incest and bestiality !??!?! :roll:


And miscegenation :shock: but surely that will never happen!!!
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Postby Mennisco » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:19 am

With all the morbid fascination among straights about "Who's Humpin' Who" it may be time for a catchy cover of an old Aretha tune.....
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Postby Marlow » Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:25 pm

Mennisco wrote:With all the morbid fascination among straights about "Who's Humpin' Who" it may be time for a catchy cover of an old Aretha tune.....


Aha, so 'zooming' was just a euphemism for humping?
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Postby gh » Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:43 pm

paulthefan wrote:the real interesting question is not when people in the us will stop rejecting gay "marriage" it is when will the (blue) state higher courts stop rejecting the peoples decision?


Without weighing in on the current debate here, allow me to say methinks we should all be thankful that higher courts are in place to undo mistakes made by the general populace.

If something doesn't pass a legal test it shouldn't be law; the whims of the general populace are to fickle to become the standard by which laws are made. Long live checks & balances.
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