Joe the Plumber speaks out on Foreign Policy


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Postby gm » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:34 pm

It's a very mild form of creeping socialism at best, but I feel the same sense of wonder/revulsion when I hear lefties in the US call their opponents fascists.
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Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:37 pm

One of the more bogus criticisms of Obama is his associations, especially when you consider that McCain has associations with people that are every bit as controversial as Obama's.
    Tony Rezko = Charles Keating
    Jeremiah Wright = John Hagee
    Michael Pfleger = Rod Parsely
    Bill Ayers = Richard Quinn
    Rashid Khalidi = Anthony Bouscaren

This selective outrage amazes me. :?
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Postby kuha » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:38 pm

bad hammy wrote:
AthleticsInBritain wrote:To go a little off topic, I was wondering what on earth you in the US define as 'socialist'. Because the definition doesn't seem to be carrying across the Atlantic to where the concept was invented!

Having lived under a real socialist government in Britain, as well as being pretty well-acquainted with liberals, liberal democrats, social democrats, labour party, trade unionists, socialists, Trotskyites, Marxists, Marxist-Leninists, Stalinists and general communists of the European variety I can quite categorically assure you none of them recognise or think of Obama or the Democrat Party as "socialist" in any way, shape or form.

We don't have socialists in any numbers at all. We just have folks on the right using bogeyman scare tactics attempting to characterize Obama as a socialist to hopefully get some brain-dead voters (they would have to be brain-dead to be fooled by such nonsense) to vote for McCain.

I did see the leader of the official US Socialist party on The Daily Show the other night. He was mad at the far right for insinuating that Obama was anything close to being a socialist. He considered Obama to be way, way too conservative to be a socialist.


Exactly. There actually ARE left-wing political radicals in this country, but we treat them like they are flat-earthers. Almost no one knows their names, and they struggle to get 1% of the vote. And they would uniformly reject Obama as hopelessly "mainstream," "corporate," etc., etc.
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Postby kuha » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:42 pm

gm wrote:It's a very mild form of creeping socialism at best, but I feel the same sense of wonder/revulsion when I hear lefties in the US call their opponents fascists.


Does anyone do that anymore? I was in England in 1979 and (in the crowd I was associating with) Thatcher was routinely called a "fascist"--with great gusto and repeatedly. I remember a little bit of that with Reagan...but it was hard to hear it without laughing, at least a bit. Has anyone said that about Bush II? Bush and Cheney are guilty of many things, but anything ressembling old-fashioned "fascism"? I don't think so...
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Postby lonewolf » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:43 pm

trig wrote: I have no trouble with how people vote if they have thought about it and have a "good" reason. But not to vote for someone because they eat a certain food is troublesome.


Trig, trig, trig, I am having trouble fending off all these slings and arrows.
I don't know why you are hung up on arugula. Did you miss my explanation that this is just an example of an incident that got huffaws from chicken-fried steak eaters?

Heck, I didn't even know what arugula was until Obama commented on the price of it. Relax, his consumption of arugula does not enter into my assessment of his candidacy.
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Postby kuha » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:45 pm

If it's guffaws [or huffaws??] you're after, NOTHING can beat a candidate who doesn't know how many houses they own!!

Ho-HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
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Postby lonewolf » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:57 pm

kuha wrote:If it's guffaws [or huffaws??] you're after, NOTHING can beat a candidate who doesn't know how many houses they own!! []!


You are right about the guffaws. Maybe. I don't know if is either is a word and I am wearing out my Websters.
I don't know why it is impossible to believe someone doesn't know how many houses his extended family owns. Heck, I am not even sure who owns the house my ex lives in that I paid for and maintain. :) :? :(
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Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:27 pm

Uh oh! :!: Lonewolf, it seems that your guy may have outsmarted himself this time.
The latest guilt-by-association target that the McCain campaign is using to hit Barack Obama could carry some collateral damage for its own candidate.....

the McCain campaign is demanding that the Los Angeles Times release video in its possession of a party attended by Barack Obama and Columbia University professor Rashid Khalidi.....

The McCain camp gambit comes after conservative writers have repeatedly pressed for media outlets to write about the rather tenuous connections between Obama and Khalidi, an outspoken advocate for Palestinian rights.....

In regards to Khalidi, however, the guilt-by-association game burns John McCain as well. During the 1990s, while he served as chairman of the International Republican Institute (IRI), McCain distributed several grants to the Palestinian research center co-founded by Khalidi, including one worth half a million dollars. A 1998 tax filing for the McCain-led group shows a $448,873 grant to Khalidi's Center for Palestine Research and Studies for work in the West Bank.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/2 ... 38606.html
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Postby lonewolf » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:39 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:Uh oh! :!: Lonewolf, it seems that your guy may have outsmarted himself this time. l


Have I failed to mention that McCain is "my guy" by default only as the best of two depressingly weak choices ? His resume is rife with "stuff" I do not agree with.
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Postby Daisy » Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:50 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:Uh oh! :!: Lonewolf, it seems that your guy may have outsmarted himself this time.
A 1998 tax filing for the McCain-led group shows a $448,873 grant to Khalidi's Center for Palestine Research and Studies for work in the West Bank.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/2 ... 38606.html


This was obviously before he was recognised as a bad guy. When Obama met him he was far badder. This will not help deflect Obama's obvious attempts at fraternizing with terrorists.
Last edited by Daisy on Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Cooter Brown » Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:49 pm

kuha wrote:No one believes more strongly than I that he's run an absolutely idiotic and disgraceful campaign.


Image
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Postby JRM » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:41 am

Once again, the Onion proves that it is way ahead of the curve. Front page, May 29, 1993:

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/48940
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