Normally open July 4th only---the one day a year when partisan politics, religion, etc. are acceptable topics on this Board. (The 2012 window is now closed; thanks for playing.)
jazzcyclist wrote:The Couric interview only revealed a dearth of knowledge and intellect, but said nothing about her political skills. Palin can't touch McCain when it comes to knowledge and preparedness for President, but McCain can't match Palin in the political arena.
I clearly sensed a lack of political awareness (not just ignorance) in her answers, as though she did not understand how they would be perceived. I'm sure she THOUGHT she did much better than she did. That seems to be her heroic flaw, she thinks she glib and 'together', but she's not.
The only time I got the impression that she was confident and actually thought her b.s. was creditable is when she touted Alaska's proximity to Russia as giving her foreign policy experience. The other times it seemed like she knew she was in over her head, but knew that she couldn't answer all the questions with, "I'll get back to you on that." When Charlie Gibson asked her about the Bush Doctrine, she looked like a deer caught in headlights. And when Couric asked her about the government bailout, she seemed like a nervous 12 year-old in a spelling bee.
jazzcyclist wrote:Great political acumen doesn't necessarily require great knowledge or intellect and no one illustrates this better than Sarah Palin.
Who has ascribed great political acumen to Palin?!
To get so far with so little requires great political acumen, IMHO.
I think Palin is a very good politician. Question is, if Obama wins, who do the Republicans throw up against him in '12? With four years to hone her knowledge and become better known nationwide, is she a viable presidential candidate?
Are there a lot of disillusioned Hillary fans out there who wouldn't defect for a woman as VP candidate, but might for a Prez?
jazzcyclist wrote:Great political acumen doesn't necessarily require great knowledge or intellect and no one illustrates this better than Sarah Palin.
Who has ascribed great political acumen to Palin?!
To get so far with so little requires great political acumen, IMHO.
I think Palin is a very good politician. Question is, if Obama wins, who do the Republicans throw up against him in '12? With four years to hone her knowledge and become better known nationwide, is she a viable presidential candidate?
Are there a lot of disillusioned Hillary fans out there who wouldn't defect for a woman as VP candidate, but might for a Prez?
No, she won't be a good candidate:
1) You never get a second chance to make a first impression.
2) Her politics scale well to Alaska, but will be too extreme for the general populace. She was brought in to shore up the base, while McCain could go after the independents.
As to who the ReShrublicans might put up in 2012, it takes one of two forms:
1) If Obama is a poor president, they will go to a "standard" candidate. Someone who is for God and country and can point to a record that basically says "I told you that Obama was a loser and his politics/values would ruin the country." Think Ronnie Ray-gun vs. Carter.
2) If Obama is a good president, they will put up a sacrifical lamb a la Bob Dole and put more energy into winning back the Congressional seats it looks like they will lose. However, it also means that they will start grooming someone for 2016 along the Obama lines - younger, articulate and positive, but with conservative values.
jazzcyclist wrote:Great political acumen doesn't necessarily require great knowledge or intellect and no one illustrates this better than Sarah Palin.
Who has ascribed great political acumen to Palin?!
To get so far with so little requires great political acumen, IMHO.
I think Palin is a very good politician. Question is, if Obama wins, who do the Republicans throw up against him in '12? With four years to hone her knowledge and become better known nationwide, is she a viable presidential candidate?
Are there a lot of disillusioned Hillary fans out there who wouldn't defect for a woman as VP candidate, but might for a Prez?
Come on, gh, the gal is 44 years old has no curiosity in anything except herself. Doesn't read anything. Never had a passport until last year. Is a creationist. Doesn't believe humans have anything to do with global warming. Lies about everything, even trivial things. You think she is going to change much in that time?
Women are going like the idea of her as president rather than VP? Those disillusioned Hillary fans will want Palin even less as a Presidential candidate.
Right now according the polls Palin is a bigger drag on McCain than even Bush is.
"The increase in the number of voters who said Ms. Palin was not prepared was driven almost entirely by Republicans and independents."
Having this wingnut a heartbeat away from the presidency is rightfully scary. So you're saying in 4 years people are going to forget and support Palin? Right.
Palin is the future of the GOP the same way Michael Foot was the future of Labour in Britain. A complete losing operation.
Flumpy wrote:Berlusconi isn't a 'sophisticate' or have a 'huge knowledge of history, economics, foreign affairs, etc,'
you don't become italy's one time richest man by being a dumbf*ck
as for politics, he had to endure a system which threw up machiavelli !
the guy knows more about politics than 1/2 the world leaders combined !
Never accused him of being a 'dumb f*ck' as you so crudely put it (Sounds like something Berlosconi might say actually). Knowing a lot about politics is hardlt the same as being a 'sophisticate'.
gh wrote:Palin . . .is she a viable presidential candidate?
I think the more we know about her, the less likely she will be a viable candidate.
Palin is the Joe the Plumber of politicians: plucked from obscurity by John McCain and shown to be terribly unprepared for life in the big lights. If she were smart she would leverage this election into a high-paying job hosting a poli talk show on Fox News.
Flumpy wrote:Berlusconi isn't a 'sophisticate' or have a 'huge knowledge of history, economics, foreign affairs, etc,'
you don't become italy's one time richest man by being a dumbf*ck
as for politics, he had to endure a system which threw up machiavelli !
the guy knows more about politics than 1/2 the world leaders combined !
Never accused him of being a 'dumb f*ck' as you so crudely put it (Sounds like something Berlosconi might say actually). Knowing a lot about politics is hardlt the same as being a 'sophisticate'.
obviously you personally know him to tell us how "sophisticated" he is...
i'll go with the observation he took a law degree before even starting his legendary business career , had the political nuance to 3 times win the italian prime-ministership & off course tv interviews - jose napoles nickname comes to mind - mantequilla
Flumpy wrote:Never accused him of being a 'dumb f*ck' as you so crudely put it (Sounds like something Berlosconi might say actually). Knowing a lot about politics is hardlt the same as being a 'sophisticate'.
obviously you personally know him to tell us how "sophisticated" he is...
i'll go with the observation he took a law degree before even starting his legendary business career , had the political nuance to 3 times win the italian prime-ministership & off course tv interviews - jose napoles nickname comes to mind - mantequilla
I should remind you that Bush has an MBA from Harvard and was elected Governor twice and (s)elected President twice.
wiki quotes him as saying he was an "average" student at yale - getting into any ivy league college & excelling are 2 very different propositions ( i got into one equivalent in britain but was very poor student ) - besides his pa was also yale graduate & a member of house of representatives when W applied for colleges - i'd bet good money his father being an alumnus & congressman helped a lot with his application
as for his political career - i'd suggest most of all of it was due to name recognition of his father rather than any political acumen
eldrick wrote:wiki quotes him as saying he was an "average" student at yale - getting into any ivy league college & excelling are 2 very different propositions ( i got into one equivalent in britain but was very poor student ) - besides his pa was also yale graduate & a member of house of representatives when W applied for colleges - i'd bet good money his father being an alumnus & congressman helped a lot with his application
as for his political career - i'd suggest most of all of it was due to name recognition of his father rather than any political acumen
If you're saying that he owes all of his major life accomplishments to his father and grandfather, I agree.
Former Secretary of State Larry Eagleburger and McCain supporterweighs in on Palin. With friends like these, who needs enemies. It funny how some the worst damage done to McCain and Obama, has been done by their own supporters.
McCain Larry Eagleburger
Phil Gramm
Michele Bachmann
John Hagee
Obama Joe Biden
John Murtha
jeremiah Wright
Michael Pfleger
gm wrote:It's amazing how well some of you personally know Palin. I am impressed. It's probably because Democrats are much, much more intelligent.
Not a Democrat, not a Republican, not a USAnian, and I don't know Sarah personally, so I have no dawgs in this race. However, I have listened to many of her public offerings, and she strikes me as one who believes she is right, even when she doesn't have a clue what she is talking about. Somewhat scary for a VP of the USA, imho.
gm wrote:It's amazing how well some of you personally know Palin. I am impressed. It's probably because Democrats are much, much more intelligent.
It's funny that you should mention that. In the last two elections, do you know how a person's education level corresponded to their voting preferences? I think you already know the answer, but I'll let you find out for yourself.
gm wrote:It's amazing how well some of you personally know Palin. I am impressed. It's probably because Democrats are much, much more intelligent.
Not a Democrat, not a Republican, not a USAnian, and I don't know Sarah personally, so I have no dawgs in this race. However, I have listened to many of her public offerings, and she strikes me as one who believes she is right, even when she doesn't have a clue what she is talking about. Somewhat scary for a VP of the USA, imho.
Well, Biden's incipient senility does scare me, so I can see your point.
gm wrote:Well, Biden's incipient senility does scare me, so I can see your point.
Now be honest. Would you really feel more comfortable with Palin as commander-in-chief than Biden?
GM, do you agree that support of Palin for 2012 should be the new litmus test for a real republican? Or would you feel more comfortable with other candidates and hope she finds a TV job?
gm (with full respect for your positions and opinions), When you talk about "incipient senility", you must be aware that there will be those who will vote against McCain for that very reason, especially with VP Palin waiting in the wings.
gm wrote:Well, Biden's incipient senility does scare me, so I can see your point.
Now be honest. Would you really feel more comfortable with Palin as commander-in-chief than Biden?
GM, do you agree that support of Palin for 2012 should be the new litmus test for a real republican? Or would you feel more comfortable with other candidates and hope she finds a TV job?
I don't have much to say about how the R's choose their candidate. The last R I voted for in a presidential election was Reagan.
jazzcyclist wrote:Great political acumen doesn't necessarily require great knowledge or intellect and no one illustrates this better than Sarah Palin.
Who has ascribed great political acumen to Palin?!
To get so far with so little requires great political acumen, IMHO.
I think Palin is a very good politician. Question is, if Obama wins, who do the Republicans throw up against him in '12? With four years to hone her knowledge and become better known nationwide, is she a viable presidential candidate?
Are there a lot of disillusioned Hillary fans out there who wouldn't defect for a woman as VP candidate, but might for a Prez?
No, she won't be a good candidate: 1) You never get a second chance to make a first impression. 2) Her politics scale well to Alaska, but will be too extreme for the general populace. She was brought in to shore up the base, while McCain could go after the independents.
As to who the ReShrublicans might put up in 2012, it takes one of two forms: 1) If Obama is a poor president, they will go to a "standard" candidate. Someone who is for God and country and can point to a record that basically says "I told you that Obama was a loser and his politics/values would ruin the country." Think Ronnie Ray-gun vs. Carter. 2) If Obama is a good president, they will put up a sacrifical lamb a la Bob Dole and put more energy into winning back the Congressional seats it looks like they will lose. However, it also means that they will start grooming someone for 2016 along the Obama lines - younger, articulate and positive, but with conservative values.
Basically the right-wing of the Republican party gets to say whether she goes away or not on the national political scene. If she is the best they have then go for it, because it means that they are doomed.
But of course, what do you expect them to say, "Hey, this is great. If she wins she's a hearbeat away from the Presidency, and if she loses, she can always slink back into the political obscurity whence she came"?
If Obama wins, then I think that in 2012, you'll see Democrats launch their own "Operation Chaos" a la Rush Limbaugh, by participating in the Republican primaries to help Palin get the nomination.
Basically the right-wing of the Republican party gets to say whether she goes away or not on the national political scene. If she is the best they have then go for it, because it means that they are doomed.
How many millions of ex-Republicans are there, just like myself ?! I did not leave the Republican Party; they left me.
Elizabeth Dole doubles down on the God card. Dole is no doubt trying to live up to the legacy of her predecessor, Jesse Helms. I'll be glad when these dinosaurs are all gone.
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Dole is no doubt trying to live up to the legacy of her predecessor, Jesse Helms. I'll be glad when these dinosaurs are all gone.