McCain or Obama ?


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McCain or Obama ?

McCain
9
17%
Obama
43
83%
 
Total votes : 52

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:12 am

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:The problem is that most of those bombings were for our geopolitical self-interest, not altruistic reasons.


ALL of them were for both. To say they were devoid of any sense of altruism is far more cynical than the issues merit.

I respectfully disagree. The first Iraq War was done for both reasons as was WWII, but I don't see any altruistism at all for the second Iraq War. On the other hand, I see no ulterior motives for our involvement in WWI, Liberia, Somalia and Korsovo. Now I'll admit that my historical knowledge of some of these conflicts isn't as thorough as it could be, but perhaps you can fill me in and change my mind.
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Postby bad hammy » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:25 am

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:The problem is that most of those bombings were for our geopolitical self-interest, not altruistic reasons.


ALL of them were for both. To say they were devoid of any sense of altruism is far more cynical than the issues merit.

Man, you need to take off those red/white/blue glasses once in a while . . .
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Postby Marlow » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:28 am

bad hammy wrote:Man, you need to take off those red/white/blue glasses once in a while . . .


Is my only other choice the poop-brown ones you're selling?! :o
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Postby bad hammy » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:31 am

Marlow wrote:
bad hammy wrote:Man, you need to take off those red/white/blue glasses once in a while . . .


Is my only other choice the poop-brown ones you're selling?! :o

Crystal clear . . .
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Postby Flumpy » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:34 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
Marlow wrote:
AthleticsInBritain wrote:Somewhere on the 'net there's a list of all the countries the US has bombed between 1945-1999 - it's a rather famous postcard for peace protestors.

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. If we stand by and do nothing as atrocities mount elsewhere, we are cowards for letting evil reign. If we go in and get physical, we are the World Police and the biggest bullies on the block. I would rather us err on the side of defending the weak, than worry about how the rest of the world will view our actions. Not that we haven't made some pretty bad decisions, as I believe our current Iraq War is (Iraq One was less iffy).

The problem is that most of those bombings were for our geopolitical self-interest, not altruistic reasons.


Exactly.

You have atrocities like Rwanda and Zimbabwe where nobody does anything because it's not in anyones self interest to do so.

I mean, has there ever been a more heinous regime than Afghanistan under the Taliban. It wasn't until 9/11 that the US reacted. I was in full agreement with the action in that case but it should have taken place years before.

As for Iraq the idea that the whole rthing was done for humanitarian reasons is laughable.

To give credit where it's due I do think the intervention in Yugoslavia was entirely justifiable and done for the correct humanitarian reasons rather than what anyone was getting out of it.
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Postby LopenUupunut » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:59 am

Flumpy wrote:To give credit where it's due I do think the intervention in Yugoslavia was entirely justifiable and done for the correct humanitarian reasons rather than what anyone was getting out of it.

Mm... yes, stealing a bit of territory from Yugoslavia - a country not known for its long history of unshaken friendship with the US - and turning it into a NATO military stronghold sounds just like humanitarian action.
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Postby Marlow » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:37 am

bad hammy wrote:
Marlow wrote:
bad hammy wrote:Man, you need to take off those red/white/blue glasses once in a while . . .

Is my only other choice the poop-brown ones you're selling?! :o

Crystal clear . . .

Um . . . uh . . . yeah . . . :roll:
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Postby rasb » Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:36 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:I guess the posters on this board are fairly representative of world opinion. Here's how the rest of the world would vote:

http://iftheworldcouldvote.com/results


That's quite a poll, not that it represents the demographics of the American electorate. But it looks like it's going to be a sad World, if McCain pulls off a miracle win. All of the major countries are between 85 and 95 % for Obama.
In fact, 208 out of 211 are pro-Obama, with Albania and Macedonia for McCain, and the two votes from Lesotho are split. That's very striking.
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Postby cullman » Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:49 pm

Hey, 83,000+ Canadians took part. 79.8% of the 239,000+ Americans voted for Obama in this poll.

cman
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Postby gm » Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:30 pm

Hey, if the rest of the world is so smart, they don't need our money and support!
Bring home ALL the troops, cut off ALL foreign aid, bonus! Score!

I was for it before I was against it. Or something.
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Postby JRM » Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:32 pm

rasb wrote: All of the major countries are between 85 and 95 % for Obama.
In fact, 208 out of 211 are pro-Obama, with Albania and Macedonia for McCain, and the two votes from Lesotho are split. That's very striking.


When my wife and I were in Ireland this past May (during the Democratic primaries), almost everyone we spoke to about the elections was rooting for Obama. They couldn't understand why McCain would even be allowed to run. "He's too old!" was the most common sentiment.
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