The Economy


Normally open July 4th only---the one day a year when partisan politics, religion, etc. are acceptable topics on this Board (within reason). The forum is now closed.

Postby sprintblox » Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:32 pm

paulthefan wrote:funny that you should skip 25 years of regulation from 77 to today. Does it not prick your curiosity at all that a person could get a loan for a home with not a single penny in his savings account. Compare this with the era of the 80s and before, when one would need 10 % down. Only the most unscrupulous bankers in the 80s would give a loan on a property to an applicant who had no money to invest in it himself.

Regulation didn't force banks to lend to people with 0-5% down. The banks CHOSE to take that risk in recent years, as the relaxed regulations allowed them to do so.
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Postby Marlow » Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:42 pm

Mennisco wrote:
Marlow wrote: The present-day USA is as 'free and moral' as you're going to see in the near or long-term future. (not we are THAT moral, but relatively speaking, yes we are). All the regulation (or deregulation) and all the vigilance in the world, and all the negative consequences for misdeeds, will not prevent what just happened from happening again. Human nature is ingrained and everyone's id is just as anxious to amass the pelf as ever.


Sounding more and more libertarian these days! And relative to what/whom are your people "THAT moral" , or free? Such statements quickly gag in the quicksand pit of your "sucking arguments...."

Having seen the jolting demarcation in places south of Canada, where torment and misery slam up quick and hard against the golden bricks of ostentation , I know you can only define "moral" and "free" from within the confines of your {particularly special} glass house. When have you had to hunt for pennies, scavenge for bread crusts, or wonder where your dreams/hopes went so awry that death will be welcomed with grateful arms and a gutteral "Thank God!".......in some vicious Hobbesian state of nature, which being subject to laws made within civil society, is an abomination and an anomaly so absurdly tragic it defies further contemplation/existence.


That's a post that I have to call 'full of sound and fury,/ Signifying nothing." :D

My point (that you studiously avoided addressing) was that present-day USA (not unlike many other current nations) is as good as it's gonna get in the foreseeable future. Utopia is most assuredly NOT just around the corner. Do you demur?
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Postby Mennisco » Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:00 pm

Marlow wrote:That's a post that I have to call 'full of sound and fury,/ Signifying nothing." :D

My point (that you studiously avoided addressing) was that present-day USA (not unlike many other current nations) is as good as it's gonna get in the foreseeable future. Utopia is most assuredly NOT just around the corner. Do you demur?


Am I demure? No. Do I demur? Hard to say, you're being studiously vacuous in that special way of yours. I thought you'd be one of the first to argue for scientifically ehanced utopian advancements.........monster legs on lithe female sprinters doing the 9.28 gait, etc.

We shall see whether 8 years under Guh-Wuh-Bush has not shut up some stories, huddled in hell waiting, to be told, waiting to inspire those who are tired of hearing anything but songs of freedom and hope.... How could it not get better, Mr. Pitter-Patterson?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jffQsdlrMI

:D
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Postby Mennisco » Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:17 pm

sorry, I have taken up a box without using it for anything, but an apology...kind of like the economy in some waize....
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Postby Marlow » Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:45 pm

Mennisco wrote:you're being studiously vacuous in that special way of yours.
How could it not get better, Mr. Pitter-Patterson?


Ha! Moi vacuous? Is that secret code for 'you suck!' ? :D

It CAN get better. And our consciousness IS rising with every generation, but will it make a big difference in the next eon? Not likely.

How's that Looser-Lewis??!!
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Postby paulthefan » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:12 pm

sprintblox wrote:
paulthefan wrote:funny that you should skip 25 years of regulation from 77 to today. Does it not prick your curiosity at all that a person could get a loan for a home with not a single penny in his savings account. Compare this with the era of the 80s and before, when one would need 10 % down. Only the most unscrupulous bankers in the 80s would give a loan on a property to an applicant who had no money to invest in it himself.

Regulation didn't force banks to lend to people with 0-5% down. The banks CHOSE to take that risk in recent years, as the relaxed regulations allowed them to do so.


hmm interesting, and all my life I thought that throughout the 50-60-70-80s banks required down payments and disclosure of income and debt level all because they wanted to make money and not lose it. Now I find out that it was really just because there were "regulations" put in place from Congress back then and once those regulations changed, all those bank loan officers were able put on their party hats.
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Postby sprintblox » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:19 pm

paulthefan wrote:hmm interesting, and all my life I thought that throughout the 50-60-70-80s banks required down payments and disclosure of income and debt level all because they wanted to make money and not lose it. Now I find out that it was really just because there were "regulations" put in place from Congress back then and once those regulations changed, all those bank loan officers were able put on their party hats.

Now you're starting to get it! The management of the banks had a big party at everybody else's expense. They didn't care if the bank loses the money ... all they know is that they would personally benefit.

More loans = more on-paper profit for the quarter = boosted stock price in the short term. If it eventually crashes down, so what, walk away with a golden parachute. With a $161 million reward for screwing up, why would somebody give a damn whether the bank loses money? You're not really that naive to think they would manage the banks properly out of the strength of their character and their sense of responsibility?

Humans with power are greedy bastards by nature who will rape you figuratively and literally if it brings them personal profit. The law is what keeps them in check, not rationality or responsibility.
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Postby El Toro » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:46 pm

I think Keynes had some insight into the matter:
“Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest
of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest
good of everyone.” - John Maynard Keynes
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Postby paulthefan » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:53 pm

sprintblox wrote:Now you're starting to get it! The management of the banks had a big party at everybody else's expense. They didn't care if the bank loses the money ... all they know is that they would personally benefit.

More loans = more on-paper profit for the quarter = boosted stock price in the short term. If it eventually crashes down, so what, walk away with a golden parachute. With a $161 million reward for screwing up, why would somebody give a damn whether the bank loses money? You're not really that naive to think they would manage the banks properly out of the strength of their character and their sense of responsibility?

Humans with power are greedy bastards by nature who will rape you figuratively and literally if it brings them personal profit. The law is what keeps them in check, not rationality or responsibility.


it sounds like we can agree on somethings. I would refer you to my previous post on moral decay and hazard. But if you do an honest study you will find that a significant cause of growth in the subprime mortgages was the demand by congress for US banks to create loans for people that were hitherto unqualified for home loans... THat my dear friend is government regulation.
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Postby bad hammy » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:02 pm

paulthefan wrote:THat my dear friend is government regulation.

That was government DEregulation . . .
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Postby paulthefan » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:43 pm

bad hammy wrote:
paulthefan wrote:THat my dear friend is government regulation.

That was government DEregulation . . .


No it was regulation.. it was the imposition of congressional will onto the banking industry. Go back and read the hearings, you will see democrat congressmen reading the riot act " the nation has to do something to bring more loans to more people" (paraphrase) . Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in perfect agreement. Everyone gets what they want with Congress blazing the trail. The imposition of congressional will (in this case Democrat) is a sound definition of regulation. The GOP had they stood up would have been vilified as racist and tools of the banking industry. Instead they kept silent and made sure that their constituents (realtors and developers) got as big a piece of the pie as the Dem side. That is the leadership we have, both parties doing what is best for their wealthiest constituents.
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Postby Mennisco » Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:33 pm

Marlow wrote:
How's that Looser-Lewis??!!


Looser than what, your lips? Pit-iful, Pat-iful, my dear. :lol:
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Postby gh » Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:04 pm

tandfman wrote:
paulthefan wrote:I would suggest that general moral decay in a society is the cause. When a democratic society is morally strong its representatives do not tolerate those kinds of crimes. . . . . All this points in one direction, a nation with a diminished moral compass.

You'll get no argument from me on that.


Oh puh-leez! Is it time to trot out the chestnut from Socrates (or whichever Greek philosopher it was) about the sorry condition of today's youth?

One need go back only a stunningly small number of years to find a nation with institutionalized (codified in fact) racism, repression of women's rights, etc., etc. I'll take the land we live in now, given the choice.
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Postby Mennisco » Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:16 pm

gh wrote:Oh puh-leez! Is it time to trot out the chestnut from Socrates (or whichever Greek philosopher it was) about the sorry condition of today's youth?



That same bit of Plato or whoever was doing the speaking/writing has often had me wonder the same thing. However, I doubt there has ever been a time when I've watched kids change so much in just a few decades - after all, I'm not Methuselah, but you surely get my drift? When else in history have children and youths been able to watch pornography, violence, and murder on the internet? Was it in Atlantis, perhaps? :lol: Trust me, I assure you gh you did NOT talk to your parents or teachers the way they do today. Ever tell your Grade 8 teacher to go "gh" herself and then threaten her with physical harm? Did your classmates, at age 12, discuss who had the hottest sex, the best drugs, and brandish steel and iron at the teacher? Yawn. I tell you, it is truly shocking what comes out of the young mouths these days.

Mojo, what think you? Anyone else taught among the less privileged socio-economic members? Even the privileged ones are more vulgar than Madonna backstage.
Last edited by Mennisco on Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby gh » Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:24 pm

I don't disagree that the youth of today seems to be overwhelmingly slanted towards being low-class louts. On the other hand, not sure that my parents didn't feel exactly the same about all those filthy dope-smoking free-sex hippies who became many of us.

The day that our "moral compass" (which was the fine point to which was referring) depends on how the raging-hormone set is acting, then I'll indeed think it's time to get outta Dodge. Maturity has a strange ameliorating effect; always has, always will.
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Postby Marlow » Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:31 pm

gh wrote:I don't disagree that the youth of today seems to be overwhelmingly slanted towards being low-class louts. On the other hand, not sure that my parents didn't feel exactly the same about all those filthy dope-smoking free-sex hippies who became many of us.


BINGO! MY generation, teenagers in the 60s, were the SCUM of the Earth, the WORST generation ever, by far. Of course, it's also my generation that got us in our current economic mess! :D :oops:
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Postby lonewolf » Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:21 pm

Apparently, I am from the only perfect generation in history. The Great Depression. We had perfect manners :) , no drugs, no sex, :wink: and no money. :(
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Postby rasb » Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:27 pm

lonewolf wrote:Apparently, I am from the only perfect generation in history. The Great Depression. We had perfect manners :) , no drugs, no sex, :wink: and no money. :(


I love your posts on here, brother, but unless you can work a few miracles, I refuse to believe that you were immaculately conceived :wink:
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Postby Marlow » Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:38 pm

rasb wrote:I refuse to believe that you were immaculately conceived :wink:


No, no, no. Lonewolf's generation had no sex (well, at least into their 30s!)! His parents' wicked generation was getting plenty! :wink:
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Postby cullman » Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:39 pm

lonewolf wrote:Apparently, I am from the only perfect generation in history. The Great Depression. We had perfect manners :) , no drugs, no sex, :wink: and no money. :(

...and if you were my relatives...no vote nor right to citizenship even though they were born here.

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