openly gay and lesbian athletes?

[kuha]

If he decided to announce it to the world I doubt anyone would raise and eyebrow

And I think it's a very good sign that many of us are so little concerned about this that we don't even have the energy to ask "who is it?" That fact isn't relevant to the activity on the track, and is just another reminder that ALL athletes are three-dimensional human beings, with personal lives, a variety of interests and talents, etc., etc.

[jazzcyclist]

I saw a great interview with Billie Jean King yesterday and she said something that seems to make her unique among homosexuals. She said that knowing everything she knows now, if she had to do her whole life over again, she would have still married Lawrence King because she was not a homosexual when she married him, and at the time, she wanted the typical American family including house with white picket fence and three kids. She basically said that she never thought about girls growing up and was always attracted to boys, and that she evolved into a homosexual but was born a heterosexual. I've also read some place else that one of her biggest regrets was getting an abortion, which she did largely because she didn't want to take a year off from the prime of her tennis career, and thought there would be plenty of time to make babies after she retired, not realizing that she would be divorcing her husband and abandoning her heterosexual lifestyle in the future.

[Seeksreal]

If he decided to announce it to the world I doubt anyone would raise and eyebrow

And I think it's a very good sign that many of us are so little concerned about this that we don't even have the energy to ask "who is it?" That fact isn't relevant to the activity on the track, and is just another reminder that ALL athletes are three-dimensional human beings, with personal lives, a variety of interests and talents, etc., etc.

Which is why it is important that some gay and lesbian athletes come out and show that it is OK to be gay and a top-level athlete. Most straight people still don't understand what it is like to be considered second-class. As much progress as have been made, we are still FAR away from true equality!
Mump and Flump: If you don't want to say the name, can you at least say the event?

[Flumpy]

No. It's not our place to out anybody on T&FN.

I completely agree with your premise that it's important to have gay role models but that is entirely dependent on them wanting to be so. Whilst I would have huge respect for anybody who decides to make the matter know to a wider public, I'm not going to do it for them and I'm surprised that you would ask.

[Pego]

No. It's not our place to out anybody on T&FN.

I completely agree with your premise that it's important to have gay role models but that is entirely dependent on them wanting to be so. Whilst I would have huge respect for anybody who decides to make the matter know to a wider public, I'm not going to do it for them and I'm surprised that you would ask.

Absolutely correct. An individual's sexual orientation is nobody's business.

[mump boy]

i'm not naming names but i also find it rather annoying that it would be a big deal if i did, as if there is still something wrong with being gay and it's a brave decision to tell people. i don't think it's brave to be out i think it's cowardly not to be.

For all i know there are many athletes who are openly gay but nobody has bothered to ask them about it in an interview and they haven't felt the need to talk about their personal life in what is ultimately a work environment. i don't know anything about the personal lives of many athletes i presume to be straight, so what's the difference. it seems common knowledge the athlete i was refering to is gay (although i have no personal knowledge of the fact) i wasn't told as gossip just as an accepted fact, they may very well have no problem with the wider public knowing or discussing it.

[Marlow]

Apropos of nothing (except gayness), but I almost bought a t-shirt the other day that said,

Sorry girls - I'm gay

which I thought my wife would appreciate (!), but she gave me that frowny look, and I put it back in the rack.

[kuha]

Apropos of nothing (except gayness), but I almost bought a t-shirt the other day that said,

Sorry girls - I'm gay

which I thought my wife would appreciate (!), but she gave me that frowny look, and I put it back in the rack.

Oh, go for it! Your wife might not enjoy it, but we sure would!

[Seeksreal]

Since I started this thread (and probably helped cause the creation of this forum!) 4 years ago, no major T&F has come out publicly to date. How long will it take and what will the reaction be when it finally happens? Women tend to be a lot more courageous when it comes to revealing their sexuality, so I'm thinking several lesbians will come out before we'll see a guy do it.

[lonewolf]

What purpose would it serve for active (or retired) T&F athletes to "come out."? i cannot imagine a positive benefit.

[Marlow]

What purpose would it serve for active (or retired) T&F athletes to "come out."? i cannot imagine a positive benefit.

In today's parlance 'coming out' is seen more as 'courageous' than even addressing the gay aspect. Megan Fox 'came out', immediately got some buzz; some people saw her as more than just a "smokin' hot babe", but then she married some guy and admitted the gay statement was just about 'youthful experimentation', so she had the best of both worlds. She managed to garner sympathy and 'cred' as a 'real' person, but then keep her straight (men) following.

[lonewolf]

What purpose would it serve for active (or retired) T&F athletes to "come out."? i cannot imagine a positive benefit.

Megan Fox 'came out', immediately got some buzz; some people saw her as more than just a "smokin' hot babe", .

Uhhh??? Yeah, makes sense but who is Megan Fox and what T&F event does she compete in? .

[mump boy]

In this day and age in the western world it is not courageous to come out, it is something most people do in their teens !!

[kuha]

Exactly. Some folks I knew in the mid-1970s were courageous for not hiding who they were. Nowadays, who cares? The world has changed completely since then.

[gh]

The sports world hasn't changed much.

[valleyrunner]

A couple thoughts to add to this. One is that there are at LEAST a half dozen major US stars that are gay, some of which are on the team to Daegu. Everyone in the track community that travels around these athletes is well aware of this and most of these athletes do not particularly hide it. However they know that a full "coming out" can cost them and as much as they could help others to follow should they do so, their agent more than likely convinces them its not worth the risk. While some would no doubt get a boost in support would it offset potential pitfalls?

I just find it so ironic that so many conservatives in the US are anti-homosexual and push the government to ban gay marriage but protest like crazy when there is any government intervention into business and corporations saying thats not the role of government.

Seems to be there are far fewer anti-homosexual athletes around than their used to be although I still have to remind some athletes of how inappropriate saying the word faggot is I know they are not talking about bundled sticks of wood!

[Marlow]

Exactly. Some folks I knew in the mid-1970s were courageous for not hiding who they were. Nowadays, who cares? The world has changed completely since then.

but still a long way to go.

there are at LEAST a half dozen major US stars that are gay . . . they know that a full "coming out" can cost them and as much as they could help others to follow should they do so, their agent more than likely convinces them its not worth the risk. . . . so many conservatives in the US are anti-homosexual and push the government to ban gay marriage

Anyone thinks that 'gay' isn't still a significant stigma is not in touch with Middle America, where 'faggot' or 'that's so gay' still flourishes.

[Flumpy]

The athletics world would give a collective shrug of 'who gives a shit' and continue on as normal. The reason no one has 'come out' is because it has absolutely nothing to do with running, jumping or throwing. There are undoubtedly many athletes who are openly gay in their private lives but the are very few circumstances where the fact would overlap onto the track.

I doubt they're hiding it, it probably just doesn't come up.

Phil - "So how was that race for you"
Athletic Gayer - "Really great thanks and by the way, I like a big cock!!!"

Not going to happen is it?

[bman]

Anyone thinks that 'gay' isn't still a significant stigma is not in touch with Middle America, where 'faggot' or 'that's so gay' still flourishes.

True, people can say it isn't an issue (maybe in other places it isn't), but on the lower levels it absolutely is an issue. The original point of the tread was about seeksreal being pushed away from track for cultural reasons and there is no doubt we are loosing many athletes for this reason. One can say who gives a shit at the upper levels but in many American high schools the situation is different.

[mump boy]

The athletics world would give a collective shrug of 'who gives a shit' and continue on as normal. The reason no one has 'come out' is because it has absolutely nothing to do with running, jumping or throwing. There are undoubtedly many athletes who are openly gay in their private lives but the are very few circumstances where the fact would overlap onto the track.

I doubt they're hiding it, it probably just doesn't come up.

Phil - "So how was that race for you"
Athletic Gayer - "Really great thanks and by the way, I like a big cock!!!"

Not going to happen is it?

Are you serious ??

We know loads about the personal lives of many athletes, who they are in relationships with etc and it entirely normal for them to talk about this in public. Nobody would say it was an invasion of privacy or none of our business if sanya was asked about her marriage or Jemma Simpson was aasked about ChrisThompson.

It would seen that being gay truly is 'the love that dare speak it's name' the fact that this discussion has been banished to the free speech thread only to rear it's head once a year would seem to confirm this fact

[Flumpy]

I don't understand half of you post but obviously I'm not saying they shouldn't come out I'm just saying that there are very few circumstances in which the such information would be publicised.

I have no idea about the private lives of the vast majority of athletes that I watch on a regular basis. My point was that there could be loads of gaylords out there who aren't 'in the closet' but have just seen no reason to announce the fact to the world.

[mump boy]

ammended i was writing on my phone

my point is that you shouldn't have to 'come out' as if it was something furtive and shameful, especially if you're not 'in the closet'. There is a conspiracy of silence around homosexuality that is perpetuated by the idea that nobody can speak about it. I know of at least 2 US athletes who are 'out' and i believe at one stage in a relationship (they may still be for all i know) but it would be considered innaporopriate to post it here or ask then in an interview. Heteresexual relationships are not held to the same standard. This thought process is exemplified by the fact that this topic is hidden away in the free speach forum

[trevorp]

... so many conservatives in the US are anti-homosexual and push the government to ban gay marriage ...

People are perfectly entitled to dislike homosexuality or find it distasteful. I like to know where people stand. This is why political correctness is so corrosive: one can never be sure that what people say is what they truly believe. I generally trust conservatives more than liberals in this regard. Here in Europe, the identity-obsessed Left banged on about gay rights ad nauseam (not really doing us any favours or winning us any friends) but then dropped us like hot potatoes when 'Islamophobia' was invented: their 'support' of us was not genuine but ideological. (Their new playmates are anything but liberal, but this doesn't seem to be a problem. Go figure.) Many gay (and other minority) people will have had a similar experience on a personal level: being worn like a badge to show how open-minded your 'friend' is.

Anyone thinks that 'gay' isn't still a significant stigma is not in touch with Middle America, where 'faggot' or 'that's so gay' still flourishes.

I've never understood this disdain for 'Middle America', whether by that you mean the allegedly unsophisticated inhabitants of 'flyover country' or the American middle class. Do you really believe that Middle America is a more dangerous place for me than the inner-city, parts of London or my home town - or, further afield, the Caribbean, significant portions of Africa, or almost anywhere in the Islamic world?

Apologies for going slightly off-topic.

[Avante]

What's with the parades? Gays/lesbians have this need to..."look we are different"....why?

Let's be honest...ok? Star QB has just won the Superbowl, his lover another guy runs over and they embrace and kiss, I gotta be honest.....yuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Something tells me I gotta be cool with that or I suffer from some sort of phobia/problem etc.....right? I can't just think two guys kissing is....yuck!...can I?

[Marlow]

I've never understood this disdain for 'Middle America', whether by that you mean the allegedly unsophisticated inhabitants of 'flyover country' or the American middle class. Do you really believe that Middle America is a more dangerous place for me than the inner-city, parts of London or my home town - or, further afield, the Caribbean, significant portions of Africa, or almost anywhere in the Islamic world? Apologies for going slightly off-topic.

Go into any Wal-mart and you will find Middle America (yes, I shop there too, and am certainly white-bread, but with some Left Coast aberrant ideological issues (ask lonewolf! ). Middle America is absolutely harmless. It hates the KKK as much as it does Black Panthers (not that either even exist in any meaningful way any more). It barks a lot, but never bites. it understands that it shouldn't be offended by gay behavior (see Avante's post just above), but can't help itself.

[mump boy]

What's with the parades? Gays/lesbians have this need to..."look we are different"....why?

Let's be honest...ok? Star QB has just won the Superbowl, his lover another guy runs over and they embrace and kiss, I gotta be honest.....yuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Something tells me I gotta be cool with that or I suffer from some sort of phobia/problem etc.....right? I can't just think two guys kissing is....yuck!...can I?

What you think is of no consequence at all but if you were to try and legislate to take away people's civil rights or advocate policies that encourage intolerance and violence towards certain sections of society then that is very problematic.

There are plenty of things that i think are 'yuck' but they are usually none of my business

[Pego]

What's with the parades? Gays/lesbians have this need to..."look we are different"....why?

Let's be honest...ok? Star QB has just won the Superbowl, his lover another guy runs over and they embrace and kiss, I gotta be honest.....yuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Something tells me I gotta be cool with that or I suffer from some sort of phobia/problem etc.....right? I can't just think two guys kissing is....yuck!...can I?

What about two women kissing? Also yuck? This is a serious question. Many guys repulsed by male homosexuality find the lesbians not only not repulsive, but entertaining.

[Seeksreal]

Here is a video that may help educate about the need for more more visibility of gay people.

http://youtu.be/osDckj0Dd3k

[Avante]

What's with the parades? Gays/lesbians have this need to..."look we are different"....why?

Let's be honest...ok? Star QB has just won the Superbowl, his lover another guy runs over and they embrace and kiss, I gotta be honest.....yuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Something tells me I gotta be cool with that or I suffer from some sort of phobia/problem etc.....right? I can't just think two guys kissing is....yuck!...can I?

What you think is of no consequence at all but if you were to try and legislate to take away people's civil rights or advocate policies that encourage intolerance and violence towards certain sections of society then that is very problematic.

There are plenty of things that i think are 'yuck' but they are usually none of my business

All of our opinions are important if they weren't then gays wouldn't worry about acceptance.....right? When they rope off streets that I have business on to hold a gay parade it becomes my business. Nobody is talking about violence here.

I have a feeling that if we did see a Superbowl winnning QB with his male lover kissing on national TV a lot of people would....YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Avante]

What's with the parades? Gays/lesbians have this need to..."look we are different"....why?

Let's be honest...ok? Star QB has just won the Superbowl, his lover another guy runs over and they embrace and kiss, I gotta be honest.....yuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Something tells me I gotta be cool with that or I suffer from some sort of phobia/problem etc.....right? I can't just think two guys kissing is....yuck!...can I?

What about two women kissing? Also yuck? This is a serious question. Many guys repulsed by male homosexuality find the lesbians not only not repulsive, but entertaining.

I have a few thousands ways to be entertained without having to watch anyone kiss. Yes two females ....yuck! However.....as we know women are wired a bit differently and with their multitude of sensitivities it's not as....yuck! Meaning if I had two watch two guys kiss or..........

[Seeksreal]

Avante, your personal business concerns about a parade once a year doesn't even come close to outweigh the suffering that gay people have to live through by always considered second-rate and not as good as others--often having to fear violence and bullying as well. In light of that, I really don't care about your business for that one Sunday a year. If a gay pride parade is really having a seriously negative effect on your business, you should probably look into how you manage it anyway. As for the yuck-factor, you would probably be a much happier person in your life if you allowed yourself to be just a bit more de-sensitized to it. As an interesting aside without inferring anything, recent studies have shown that those who have strongest aversion to gay people in general are also those who are most aroused by gay pornography. Makes you go hmmmm...

I don't mind people having negative opinions about gay people, but I ask of everyone that when you express it, please be mindful of your audience. Words can be extremely hurtful to young people and they don't need to be judged any harder for what they are and cannot help being. You are born gay and you cannot change that. Any person who isn't gay themselves have no business questioning that!! At the end of the day we are all humans, though, and we need to treat each other with courtesy and respect. Any person in a position to be a role model who feels he needs to hide the fact that he is gay is doing dis-service to all of us. It is time for the world to become educated about what this really is about.

[Flumpy]

Ok there are a couple more obvious gayers that have come to prominence since we last had this discussion, but no one has come out yet.

[kuha]

It's an enormous sign of social progress that hardly anyone cares about this.

[Flumpy]

This is the truth

Although there still a good 10 hours to go so shouldn't speak too soon

[kuha]

If Anderson Cooper can come out, I suspect that a gay Olympic gold medalist would do just fine. Maybe no Wheaties box cover, but who gets those anymore anyway?