Tom Cruise - you're kidding me


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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby smc » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:05 pm

Marlow wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:
Marlow wrote:Join Naval Aviation and you can go long stretches of being officially on-duty. I think my record for sleeping in the Ready Room awaiting a Scramble call many have only been three days though (while continuing to do my desk job from 7am-7pm). This was only during our 6-month deployments to balmy Iceland (in the winter - no biggie - the sun hardly ever rose anyway, so there wasn't much else to do!). :D

What did you fly?

The mighty (I'm being facetious) P-3C Orion.


If you don't mind me asking, when were you in Keflavik?
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby Marlow » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:42 pm

smc wrote:when were you in Keflavik?

Nov 75 - Apr 76
VP-56
When I got back home, I had been living with my suite-mate roomie as long as I had lived with my sweetheart wiffie. :shock:
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby smc » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:55 pm

Marlow wrote:
smc wrote:when were you in Keflavik?

Nov 75 - Apr 76
VP-56
When I got back home, I had been living with my suite-mate roomie as long as I had lived with my sweetheart wiffie. :shock:


Sending you a PM.
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby bambam » Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:08 pm

Marlow wrote:There are VERY few elite distance runners today who could survive 19-year-old Jim Ryun's impossible interval workouts. I'm convinced he only became a legendary miler because his body was so immune to breaking down under the horrendous stress he put it under.


Very important point. In the late 1970s the Dutch speed skating coach asked Dianne Holum (Eric Heiden's coach) for his workout schedule so his guys could try it. Holum told him she doubted they could do it, but he wanted them to try it. She gave it to him, and the legend goes that within 2 weeks half the team was in the hospital, broken down from the killer workouts that Heiden's body could tolerate - and nobody else's could.
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:00 pm

bambam wrote:
Marlow wrote:There are VERY few elite distance runners today who could survive 19-year-old Jim Ryun's impossible interval workouts. I'm convinced he only became a legendary miler because his body was so immune to breaking down under the horrendous stress he put it under.


Very important point. In the late 1970s the Dutch speed skating coach asked Dianne Holum (Eric Heiden's coach) for his workout schedule so his guys could try it. Holum told him she doubted they could do it, but he wanted them to try it. She gave it to him, and the legend goes that within 2 weeks half the team was in the hospital, broken down from the killer workouts that Heiden's body could tolerate - and nobody else's could.

I've read similar things regarding Lance Armstrong and U.S. Postal. In training camp, even Roberto Heras couldn't handle the workload that Armstrong could handle without breaking down physically.
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby Marlow » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:35 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:couldn't handle the workload that Armstrong could handle without breaking down physically.

Well, I guess we know how Armstrong handled it . . .
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:57 pm

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:couldn't handle the workload that Armstrong could handle without breaking down physically.

Well, I guess we know how Armstrong handled it . . .

Obviously, not only did you not read USADA's report, but you also didn't see the many interviews and read the op-eds and message board posts from Armstrong's many teammates. Nor do you have the faintest idea about how endemic cycling's doping problem was, and how comprehensive the list of convicted and admitted dopers is for the pro cyclists who competed from the early 90's to the mid 00's.
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby Marlow » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:16 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:couldn't handle the workload that Armstrong could handle without breaking down physically.

Well, I guess we know how Armstrong handled it . . .

Obviously, not only did you not read USADA's report, but you also didn't see the many interviews

Well, I did read about how Lance's legacy is one of lies, cheating and deceit. He did super-human work-outs on PEDs. I do know that.
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby 18.99s » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:59 am

Another thing Cruise is probably not considering is that when he works a 20-hour day, he has people to clean his house, cook his meals, wash his dishes, mow his lawn, iron his clothes, walk his dog, and do whatever other chores and errands need to be done. But when a regular person works a 20-hour day, they still have to deal with doing all those things for themselves.
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby Marlow » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:18 am

Is this the same guy who jumped up and down on Oprah's couch, declaring his undying love for (former-wife-now-divorced) Katie Holmes?
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:04 am

Marlow wrote:Well, I did read about how Lance's legacy is one of lies, cheating and deceit. He did super-human work-outs on PEDs. I do know that.

And what were his teammates doing before and after he joined their team? Say for example Roberta Heras, who was a crucial Armstrong teammate from 2001 to 2003, and who won the Vuelta a Espana four times, or Viatcheslav Ekimov, who rode with Armstrong in all seven of his Tour wins and who won Olympic Gold medals in 2000 and 2004? What were they doing during those years? :?
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby Marlow » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:49 am

jazzcyclist wrote:What were they doing during those years? :?

As I would tell anyone who cheats, when he tries to deflect the blame by saying others are cheating too, "And how is that relevant to your guilt?"
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby Pego » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:24 am

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:What were they doing during those years? :?

As I would tell anyone who cheats, when he tries to deflect the blame by saying others are cheating too, "And how is that relevant to your guilt?"


The issue here is doing the same work, not guilt. They all juiced up, Armstrong was the strongest among them. I believe, that is jazzcyclist's position.
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:29 am

Marlow wrote:As I would tell anyone who cheats, when he tries to deflect the blame by saying others are cheating too, "And how is that relevant to your guilt?"

You're deflecting Marlow. I pointed out that during training, Armstrong was able to handle a higher workload than his teammates, a la Jim Ryun and Eric Heiden, to which you responded with this:

    Well, I guess we know how Armstrong handled it . . .
The implication is that Armstrong was able to handle this higher workload because he was doing things that his U.S. Postal teammates weren't, and that's total bullshit.
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby Marlow » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:35 am

jazzcyclist wrote:The implication is that Armstrong was able to handle this higher workload because he was doing things that his U.S. Postal teammates weren't, and that's total bullshit.

Not at all. EVERY body processes and uses the PEDs in different ways. His body may have just been the most EFFICIENT at utilizing the effects of the PEDs.

Here's the truly sad part. He probably was an astonishing natural athlete, but
A. we'll never know to what extent
B. all he is now is a liar and a cheat.
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby jeremyp » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:59 am

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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby bambam » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:18 pm

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:
Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:couldn't handle the workload that Armstrong could handle without breaking down physically.

Well, I guess we know how Armstrong handled it . . .

Obviously, not only did you not read USADA's report, but you also didn't see the many interviews

Well, I did read about how Lance's legacy is one of lies, cheating and deceit. He did super-human work-outs on PEDs. I do know that.


Yeah, but the point jazzy is making, Marlow, is that all the guys, Roberto Heras included, were on PEDs, but Armstrong's work tolerance still blew everybody away. The sad thing is, that if Armstrong took no drugs, and nobody in the peleton took them either, I suspect he still would have won 5-6 TdFs - maybe not all 7, but a lot of them, for certain.
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby bambam » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:21 pm

jeremyp wrote:Then there's Mark Wahlberg's take:
http://insidemovies.ew.com/2013/11/13/m ... -premiere/


Good for Wahlberg. Proud of him for that
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby DrJay » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:26 pm

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:The implication is that Armstrong was able to handle this higher workload because he was doing things that his U.S. Postal teammates weren't, and that's total bullshit.

Not at all. EVERY body processes and uses the PEDs in different ways. His body may have just been the most EFFICIENT at utilizing the effects of the PEDs.


Or, maybe Armstrong's body may have been LESS efficient at utilizing PEDS than some of his teammates and he was just a frickin' (lying and cheating) BEAST, a la Eric Heiden in bambam's post above. We just don't know.
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:38 pm

Marlow wrote:Not at all. EVERY body processes and uses the PEDs in different ways. His body may have just been the most EFFICIENT at utilizing the effects of the PEDs.

Maybe his body did handle PED's more efficiently or maybe it didn't, but neither you are I have no idea one way or the other. This is just baseless and ilde speculation on your part, so why did you use the phrase "I guess we know " instead of a phrase like "the possibiliity exists"?
Marlow wrote:Here's the truly sad part. He probably was an astonishing natural athlete, but
A. we'll never know to what extent
B. all he is now is a liar and a cheat.

We got a pretty good measure of his talent when he was clean, before he turned pro and headed to Europe. In 1991, Armstrong won the U.S. Junior National Championship, and in 1992, in his very first European pro race, he finished dead last. One thing you can be certain of is that if Armstrong had never used PED's in his era, nobody except for hardcore cycling fans would have ever heard of him. One of Armstrong's teammates, Jonathan Vaughters, when describing his own experience, said that when he was clean, he was one of the most dominant cyclists on the scene in domestic races, and then he would race in Europe, and he struggled just to hang onto the peleton in one-day races and to make the time limit in Grand Tours. It didn't take him long to figure out that if he wanted to have a cycling career at all, he was going to do what everybody else in Europe was doing.
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby bambam » Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:23 pm

DrJay wrote:Or, maybe Armstrong's body may have been LESS efficient at utilizing PEDS than some of his teammates and he was just a frickin' (lying and cheating) BEAST, a la Eric Heiden in bambam's post above. We just don't know.


Heiden was an absolute beast. My favorite story, told to me by a friend who played football at U Wisconsin in the late 70s, when Heiden was training for Lake Placid. He said a bunch of his football buddies were in the weight room one spring day, at the squat rack, when Heiden came in, drenched in sweat - he had just run 8 miles. He asked the football players, who all knew him, if it was OK if he did a long set of squats. They said sure, thinking he meant 10-15 reps. Heiden put 225 on the bar (bar + 2 plates each side), and proceeded to do squats with that for 15 minutes! Nobody had any idea how many reps it was but they estimated maybe 300.
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby Marlow » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:46 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:1. This is just baseless and ilde speculation on your part, so why did you use the phrase "I guess we know "
2. One thing you can be certain of is that if Armstrong had never used PED's in his era, nobody except for hardcore cycling fans would have ever heard of him.

1. It is ZERO speculation that he was a PED cheat, which is what I was referring to: he did awesome work-outs and we all know why he could do them. What he could have done without PEDS is the "baseless and idle speculation", because "when he was the best" he WAS on PEDs.
2. Is that really your apologia for him - that we never would have heard of him if he had not cheated??!! So it's better to cheat and be known than it is to be clean and unknown.
I really do realize the situation here: anyone with some real talent felt they MUST cheat or they can't even make the TdF team. So be it. Do something honorable with your life. We all have choices in life. Stop making excuses for such a loser! Marion Jones is in that category now and ask around, I was her main supporter on this board! Until the truth was proven.
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby Pego » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:04 pm

Marlow wrote:
jazzcyclist wrote:1. This is just baseless and ilde speculation on your part, so why did you use the phrase "I guess we know "
2. One thing you can be certain of is that if Armstrong had never used PED's in his era, nobody except for hardcore cycling fans would have ever heard of him.

1. It is ZERO speculation that he was a PED cheat, which is what I was referring to: he did awesome work-outs and we all know why he could do them. What he could have done without PEDS is the "baseless and idle speculation", because "when he was the best" he WAS on PEDs.
2. Is that really your apologia for him - that we never would have heard of him if he had not cheated??!! So it's better to cheat and be known than it is to be clean and unknown.
I really do realize the situation here: anyone with some real talent felt they MUST cheat or they can't even make the TdF team. So be it. Do something honorable with your life. We all have choices in life. Stop making excuses for such a loser! Marion Jones is in that category now and ask around, I was her main supporter on this board! Until the truth was proven.


Marlow, once again. This is not a moral issue on the table. It is simply a question of different workload ability of different individuals under same/similar conditions. Whether they have different physiological response to PED's is unknown, ergo immaterial.
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:22 pm

Marlow wrote:1. It is ZERO speculation that he was a PED cheat, which is what I was referring to: he did awesome work-outs and we all know why he could do them. What he could have done without PEDS is the "baseless and idle speculation", because "when he was the best" he WAS on PEDs.

Marlow, please quit while you're behind. Trying to change the meaning of your original comment after the fact just won't fly. Everybody who responded to your post knows that we were talking about why Armstrong could do workouts that his teammates couldn't. Perhaps, if English was your second language, I might cut you some slack, but you're an English teacher for crying out loud.

Marlow wrote:2. Is that really your apologia for him - that we never would have heard of him if he had not cheated??!! So it's better to cheat and be known than it is to be clean and unknown.
I really do realize the situation here: anyone with some real talent felt they MUST cheat or they can't even make the TdF team. So be it. Do something honorable with your life. We all have choices in life. Stop making excuses for such a loser! Marion Jones is in that category now and ask around, I was her main supporter on this board! Until the truth was proven.

You're projecting Marlow. I'm not apologizing for Armstrong, nor do I feel sorry for him. All I did was state a fact, which is that Armstrong would have never become a household name if he had never doped, and he probably wouldn't have even made it in big league cycling. It's the life he chose.
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby DrJay » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:56 pm

To paraphrase Woodrow Call, some people will argue with a possum.
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby Marlow » Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:44 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:You're projecting Marlow.

OK, made me laugh. That was funny when malmo said it too.
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Re: Tom Cruise - you're kidding me

Postby Dixon » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:50 am

Still haven't gotten over Tom Cruise being cast as the 6-5 250 pound Jack Reacher.
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