WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing


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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby gh » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:52 pm

norunner wrote:Getting back to the original subject, apparently everything is hunkydory in Jamaica: http://jamaica-gleaner.com/latest/article.php?id=48972


That's a local-paper story perhaps with a bit of spin.

More detailed story now on front page notes that WADA left town without saying a word (not that that in and of itself indicates any "bad news").
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby JumboElliott » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:36 pm

The Gleaner reminds me a little bit of Pravda in its heyday.
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby bushop » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:48 pm

norunner wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:There were conditions other than drugs that made the Eastern Bloc athletes as good as they were.
And the Chinese lost those conditions too, even though they never had a democratic revolution? And what were those conditions? Professional training sponsored by the state? We still have that in Germany, you can join the army, police, customs, get paid by the government but allowed to train full time.

Would you still say the benefits afforded today's German athletes pale in comparison to the days of the GDR?

I would venture a guess that the current situation in Jamaica has allowed many more athletes the opportunity to excel. Seems like back int he day to pursue post-high school sprinting a Jamaican needed to...
... no need for the academic chops to attend a US American college?
... able to stay home (near) and train in familiar surroundings and traditional support system.
... weather, weather, weather–can you imagine growing-up on a tropical island and then competing in an outdoor sport while living in Nebraska?
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby shivfan » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:29 am

"We would have had some budgetary constraints last year (2012). A review of the operations was done to determine what positions were, in fact, needed. Those positions, however, were not vacant. They were being filled by other persons playing dual roles. We now believe it would have been high time to have persons specifically for those roles," said Minister Neita-Headley during a press briefing yesterday at JADCO's offices in Half-Way Tree. The ability to fill those positions and do even more would have been aided by a 14 per cent increase in JADCO's budget for the current financial year, and there is more support to come. As such, a new executive director was recently named and there is a recruitment drive to fill five of the nine existing vacancies. The minister said they expect to fill all positions over the next two months as JADCO seeks to improve its operations. "Our focus going forward is on strengthening and building capacity in collaboration with our partners. Our training and public-education programme and testing programmes stand to benefit from support from CHASE, the IAAF and WADA."

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/2013 ... rts11.html

Not every country in the world is as rich as the US and the UK....
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby shivfan » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:36 am

'They arrived in the island on Monday afternoon and it is believed that the report from the audit will not be made public until after the World Anti-Doping Conference in Johannesburg, South Africa, from November 12-15....Meanwhile, the minister revealed that JADCO has conducted 286 tests as at the end of September this year, with 45 per cent of that number being out-of-competition tests, as opposed to a total of 179 tests done the previous year. Neita Headley also noted that 300 tests were planned for this year, costing on average of US$300 per test, and excluding the costs for medical kits to conduct the tests, and fees for the medical personnel conducting the tests. For the next year the plan is to increase the number of tests to 400, and to commence the process of blood analysis.'

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport/JA ... -_15358049
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby shivfan » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:40 am

'However, Wada's visit to Jamaica to conduct an "extraordinary" audit into its anti-doping procedures appears to have been smoother than anticipated, with the island's sports minister Natalie Neita-Headley saying that "the Jamaica Anti-Doping Commission (Jadco) is not non-compliant". Neita-Headley also claimed that discussions between Jadco and Wada's three-man team during the two-day audit had been "constructive" and that Jamaica's government was "committed to the integrity of sport". A Wada spokesman refused to comment and the audit is unlikely to be made public until after Wada's conference in Johannesburg between 12-15 November.'

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/o ... ing-agency

Smoother than anticipated by the foreign press, that is....
:mrgreen:
The Guardian sounds so disappointed!
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby shivfan » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:43 am

But has attention been shifted to another developing country, Kenya?

'Wada is "very frustrated" by a lack of progress in Kenya, meanwhile, a year after the country's authorities promised to investigate revelations by the German broadcaster ARD that athletes were being supplied with banned substances in exchange for a percentage of their winnings from races. "We are very frustrated," said Wada's Africa office director Rodney Swigelaar. "It's more than a year now since we went there in October and even longer since the rumours started to spread. We have not been informed that this task team is in place. Officially I cannot say where they are at with their investigation." Wada has no powers to directly sanction Kenya's sports authorities but it can rule they are non-compliant with its code. It would then be up to the International Olympic Committee to decide whether Kenya's athletes should be banned from competing at the Games. We are nowhere near that stage – yet – but Swigelaar has warned that the country could be audited and declared non-compliant if it refuses to act. "We have been extremely patient," Swigelaar said. "It's our role to go in there and ask what is wrong and why people are not complying with the code. We are still hoping that the Kenyans will stay true to their word, implement the investigation and tell the world whatever they were able to uncover. If their athletes are clean and there's no problem, then that's fine, and then if there is a problem, let's see how we can work together." The Kenya authorities blame the delay on logistical issues – including the appointment of a new sports minister after national elections in March – as well as the terrorist attack on the Westgate shopping mall in the capital Nairobi last month. Another problem is the lack of a Wada-accredited blood testing laboratory in the country, meaning it is difficult to collect and analyse samples. Gordon Oluoch, Kenya's commissioner for sports, said an inquiry was only awaiting the go-ahead by the government. "We take such allegations very seriously," he said.'

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/o ... ing-agency
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby maroon » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:22 am

shivfan wrote:Finally, a balanced article on the visit....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/24723767

Of course, this is drawn from a Reuters story, but up until now, Reuters had been writing quite a lot of rubbish on the issue.

Interesting to see that Kenya is having problems with WADA.

Of course, it's important to also remember that Kenya is not exactly a rich country, and they do have other priorities right now....


shivfan -- wada is in a tricky position vis-a-vis national federations/drug testing bodies. they have no real coercive power except for the ultimate threat of declaring a country in non-complicance. you might recall they tried to use this against britain in the lead up to the london olympics when they tried to get them to remove the olympic ban for drug offenders. but since the non-compliance declaration is so extreme, the only real power they have is the ability to weave unfavorable narratives in the press. that is why the shirley story was a god-send for them and why it played out mostly in the press.

same thing with the kenyan story. the stories in the german press were a god-send for wada because the kenyans have to present a credible response.

having said that, i really don't buy the excuse that kenya is too poor or has other priorities that take precedence over investigating the charges made about systematic doping. if they have a testing authority/athletics federation, then its simply a matter of allocation of resources. and what could be more important than investigating such serious charges? these charges are more serious than anything alleged re jamaica and need to be sorted out pronto.
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby JumboElliott » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:43 am

Jamaica's minister for sport saying that the audit went fine is like a criminal defense attorney saying that he thinks he won after summations. The fact is that we have no idea what wada found, and until they issue a report, things will likely remain that way.
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby toyracer » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:31 am

maroon wrote:shivfan -- wada is in a tricky position vis-a-vis national federations/drug testing bodies. they have no real coercive power except for the ultimate threat of declaring a country in non-complicance.


Their sticky situation is also compounded by them not having a minimum testing standard. At least I certainly have never been able to find one. How can you rake an entity over the coals for not testing enough when the term "enough" isn't defined?
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby JumboElliott » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:29 pm

The minimum testing standard should be like Justice Potter Stewart's definition of obscenity- You might not be able to adequately explain it to another person in a million years, but you know it when you see it.
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby toyracer » Fri Nov 01, 2013 4:49 am

JumboElliott wrote:The minimum testing standard should be like Justice Potter Stewart's definition of obscenity- You might not be able to adequately explain it to another person in a million years, but you know it when you see it.


Too ambiguous, especially if you are going to use terms like "non-compliant" etc.

Just as one person's "obscenity" is another person's "art".

Non-compliance to testing shouldn't be left to interpretation like synchronized swimming or rhythmic gymnastics judging. There should be a clearly defined minimum testing standard, so that organizations and athletes know when they are in breach of the regulations.

A-standard athlete = x amount of OOC and IC tests.
B-standard athlete = y amount of OOC and IC tests.

Something along those lines.
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby JumboElliott » Fri Nov 01, 2013 5:26 am

There should not be a minimum number of tests because then sanctioning bodies are going to skate by and athletes are going to know when they're in the clear to do what they want.
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby jamboy » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:18 am

WADA came for an audit visit and they have left. No secret "drug labs" were found and all is well :D
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:19 am

jamboy wrote:WADA came for an audit visit and they have left. No secret "drug labs" were found and all is well :D

Link please?
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby toyracer » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:43 pm

JumboElliott wrote:There should not be a minimum number of tests because then sanctioning bodies are going to skate by and athletes are going to know when they're in the clear to do what they want.


With no minimum number of tests how can it ever be said that there isn't enough testing?

How would any athlete "be in the clear"? Let's say the minimum number for an "A" standard is 5, that doesn't mean that once 5 tests have been conducted no more will be conducted for the year. The athlete would never "be in the clear", as there would be no maximum amount of tests.
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby JumboElliott » Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:45 pm

Most places would only do five because that's how bureaucracy tends to work.
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby toyracer » Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:23 am

JumboElliott wrote:Most places would only do five because that's how bureaucracy tends to work.


Okay. Let's say that 5 is the number for A athletes, and they must be done in the Fall/Winter... wouldn't that 5 for each A athlete be better than what is obviously a lesser amount currently being done? And, importantly, since we are discussing the compliance of a testing body, at least a bench mark would be in place for that testing body to achieve. It seems to me that having a testing standard would make monitoring a testing body a much easier task.

As the situation is now it all seems very subjective. Seriously; at what point is a testing body "non-compliant"?
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby maroon » Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:16 pm

interesting snippet from an article on the front page about an ioc meeting. ties in to my earlier post about wada's lack of coercive power.

The delegates also called on WADA to "strengthen its role in research and as a service organization." Some sports have complained that WADA has overstepped its role by criticizing and giving orders to federations, rather than serving their own needs.
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby jamboy » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:01 pm

WADA's report from its recent two day audit of JADCO will be released next week.
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby shivfan » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:24 am

'Howman said he was "content" with the process that was followed with WADA's inspection of the Jamaica Anti-Doping Commission last week, following the revelations of a breakdown in the testing of the Caribbean island's high-profile sprinters in the six months leading up to the London Olympics.'

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport/WA ... k_15400651

Nowhere near the hysterical reaction of the foreign media in their coverage of this event....
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby Blues » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:11 am

shivfan wrote:'Howman said he was "content" with the process that was followed with WADA's inspection of the Jamaica Anti-Doping Commission last week, following the revelations of a breakdown in the testing of the Caribbean island's high-profile sprinters in the six months leading up to the London Olympics.'

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport/WA ... k_15400651

Nowhere near the hysterical reaction of the foreign media in their coverage of this event....


If I misunderstood your post forgive me, but doesn't that statement mean that Howman was "content" with the "process" that was followed by WADA inspectors during the inspection? I don't think it says anything yet about the results of the inspection, or about JADCO's lack of out of comp testing leading up to London.

The earlier "hysterical" reaction of the media was most likely due to the surprising reports regarding JADCO's lack of out of comp testing in 2012 which was more concerning since it was an Olympic year, and the reaction was additionally fueled by JADCO's temporary initial refusal to accomodate WADA inspectors this year, a decision that caused JADCO to look a little suspicious to some people.
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby jamboy » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:10 pm

Blues wrote:
shivfan wrote:'Howman said he was "content" with the process that was followed with WADA's inspection of the Jamaica Anti-Doping Commission last week, following the revelations of a breakdown in the testing of the Caribbean island's high-profile sprinters in the six months leading up to the London Olympics.'

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport/WA ... k_15400651

Nowhere near the hysterical reaction of the foreign media in their coverage of this event....


If I misunderstood your post forgive me, but doesn't that statement mean that Howman was "content" with the "process" that was followed by WADA inspectors during the inspection? I don't think it says anything yet about the results of the inspection, or about JADCO's lack of out of comp testing leading up to London.

The earlier "hysterical" reaction of the media was most likely due to the surprising reports regarding JADCO's lack of out of comp testing in 2012 which was more concerning since it was an Olympic year, and the reaction was additionally fueled by JADCO's temporary initial refusal to accomodate WADA inspectors this year, a decision that caused JADCO to look a little suspicious to some people.


WADA tested, IAAF tested, IOC tested during the period before the 2012 Olympics.

Overall, there wasnt' a lack of testing. Get the facts right.
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby Blues » Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:32 pm

jamboy wrote:
Blues wrote: If I misunderstood your post forgive me, but doesn't that statement mean that Howman was "content" with the "process" that was followed by WADA inspectors during the inspection? I don't think it says anything yet about the results of the inspection, or about JADCO's lack of out of comp testing leading up to London.

The earlier "hysterical" reaction of the media was most likely due to the surprising reports regarding JADCO's lack of out of comp testing in 2012 which was more concerning since it was an Olympic year, and the reaction was additionally fueled by JADCO's temporary initial refusal to accomodate WADA inspectors this year, a decision that caused JADCO to look a little suspicious to some people.


WADA tested, IAAF tested, IOC tested during the period before the 2012 Olympics.

Overall, there wasnt' a lack of testing. Get the facts right.


Okay... But since you have all of those inside sources throughout the world of elite track and field, just give us the facts of who was tested out of competition by these outside testing agencies, along with the times and places of the tests... Exactly how many times were elite Jamaican athletes tested by legitimate random and unannounced out of comp tests in Jamaica by outside authorities, during the five months leading up to London when JADCO wasn't doing out-of-comp testing? And please don't include any testing done outside of Jamaica on days immediately prior to London or immediately prior to other competitions, which wasn't much more useful than in-comp testing.

All you have to do it provide the official data, which you must have available since you're insisting that there wasn't a lack of efficient testing. :wink:
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby jamboy » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:03 am

Blues wrote:
jamboy wrote:
Blues wrote: If I misunderstood your post forgive me, but doesn't that statement mean that Howman was "content" with the "process" that was followed by WADA inspectors during the inspection? I don't think it says anything yet about the results of the inspection, or about JADCO's lack of out of comp testing leading up to London.

The earlier "hysterical" reaction of the media was most likely due to the surprising reports regarding JADCO's lack of out of comp testing in 2012 which was more concerning since it was an Olympic year, and the reaction was additionally fueled by JADCO's temporary initial refusal to accomodate WADA inspectors this year, a decision that caused JADCO to look a little suspicious to some people.


WADA tested, IAAF tested, IOC tested during the period before the 2012 Olympics.

Overall, there wasnt' a lack of testing. Get the facts right.


Okay... But since you have all of those inside sources throughout the world of elite track and field, just give us the facts of who was tested out of competition by these outside testing agencies, along with the times and places of the tests... Exactly how many times were elite Jamaican athletes tested by legitimate random and unannounced out of comp tests in Jamaica by outside authorities, during the five months leading up to London when JADCO wasn't doing out-of-comp testing? And please don't include any testing done outside of Jamaica on days immediately prior to London or immediately prior to other competitions, which wasn't much more useful than in-comp testing.

All you have to do it provide the official data, which you must have available since you're insisting that there wasn't a lack of efficient testing. :wink:


Unfortunately, I can't publish that information here.
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby user4 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:09 am

Some of us just continue to yawn at all this negative press fueled by obvious jealousy of the small wholesome island of 3 million people that is gifted with the raw talent to win 8 out of 12 sprint medals at the OG.

Come on people, erase the hate.
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby Dutra5 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:17 am

jamboy wrote:
Blues wrote:
All you have to do it provide the official data, which you must have available since you're insisting that there wasn't a lack of efficient testing. :wink:


Unfortunately, I can't publish that information here.


:lol: :lol:
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby shivfan » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:47 am

If you ignore for a moment the British journalist's overwhelming desire to dig up dirt, there are some useful snippets in this article....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/24900565

'Following Wada's visit, the Jamaican Minister for Sport Natalie Neita Headley vowed to pump more money in to testing to boost the current annual budget of just over £380,000. That funding - with the help of additional money from Wada - would be used to hire more senior executives to run the anti-doping programme and to hire and train additional drug testers. Mrs Headley told the BBC that she was currently hiring two extra drug testers, taking the total number of doping control officers to six. She also vowed to increase the number of tests conducted by Jadco from 300 this year to 400 in 2014. And she said the commission was ready to start blood testing its athletes.'

Mike Fennell: "More can be done and you tell me what country in the world where more cannot be done. A country like Jamaica has economic problems and we are doing extremely well with the resources we have but there's always room for more and we have to make sure we are up to speed."

It's good to see WADA finally recognising the economic realities facing countries like Jamaica and Kenya....
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby norunner » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:12 am

shivfan wrote:If you ignore for a moment the British journalist's overwhelming desire to dig up dirt, there are some useful snippets in this article....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/athletics/24900565

'Following Wada's visit, the Jamaican Minister for Sport Natalie Neita Headley vowed to pump more money in to testing to boost the current annual budget of just over £380,000. That funding - with the help of additional money from Wada - would be used to hire more senior executives to run the anti-doping programme and to hire and train additional drug testers. Mrs Headley told the BBC that she was currently hiring two extra drug testers, taking the total number of doping control officers to six. She also vowed to increase the number of tests conducted by Jadco from 300 this year to 400 in 2014. And she said the commission was ready to start blood testing its athletes.'

Mike Fennell: "More can be done and you tell me what country in the world where more cannot be done. A country like Jamaica has economic problems and we are doing extremely well with the resources we have but there's always room for more and we have to make sure we are up to speed."

It's good to see WADA finally recognising the economic realities facing countries like Jamaica and Kenya....
So anything that shines a negative light on Jamaica's drug testing is "digging up dirt" ? The tip of the iceberg thingy, the warnings by Dr. Wright, who i assume is not another one of the haters or unhappy ex-employees? To me Wright sounds much more believable than Fennell and his concerns sound more realistic than the dismissals.
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Re: WADA launching probe into Jamaican testing

Postby gh » Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:04 am

since we've moved on to a new phase in this case, and there's a new thread in Current Events, I'll lock this one down so we don't have dupe discussions going oin.
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