Pick the winner, USA or New Zealand


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Pick the winner, USA or New Zealand

Postby Rye Catcher » Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:26 am

Oracle, Team USA has been getting better, but the Kiwi's are still kicking tail. One more win and the trophy goes down under. The boats and crews have been incredible. There is something magical about a sailboat going in excess of 50mph. We will never see monohulls again.
Last edited by Rye Catcher on Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:14 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: One win away

Postby Marlow » Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:32 am

Sigh . . . The America's Cup, like Olympic Pole Vaulting used to be a USA-only club. it's good that the rest of the world has caught (and passed) us, but yeah, I have enough red, white, and blue blood in me to look wistfully back at our domination. 8-)
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Re: One win away

Postby meninblack » Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:01 am

It is a stretch to call the Oracle team "Team USA". It is run by a Kiwi, the crew is mostly Aussies & Kiwis and only includes a single American. Of course, it is USA $$$ funding the campaign.
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Re: One win away

Postby Rye Catcher » Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:47 pm

Kiwi's are the best in the world and the owners pay for the best, pure and simple. The foreigner Americans won today on a great start. They will race again on Friday. The start is the key to winning.
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Re: One win away

Postby JayIsMe » Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:52 pm

Rye Catcher wrote:We will never see monohulls again.

Which is sad, I think. The cats may be faster but the monohull's lines were far more elegant and beautiful, at least to my untrained eye. The very embodiment of the term racing yacht.
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Re: One win away

Postby Rye Catcher » Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:32 pm

JayIsMe wrote:
Rye Catcher wrote:We will never see monohulls again.

Which is sad, I think. The cats may be faster but the monohull's lines were far more elegant and beautiful, at least to my untrained eye. The very embodiment of the term racing yacht.


These big cats are speeding at over 50mph. Displacement monohulls of comparable length will have a maximum speed of about 13mph. The cats are for well trained athletes whereas a good big monohull may have some pot bellied crew members. Even GH and I could crew a monohull.
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Re: One win away

Postby Rye Catcher » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:04 pm

Team USA gets a big break. Light winds causes race to be abandoned with the Kiwi's having a big lead. The race must be completed within 40 minutes. Maybe the 2nd race today will be completed.
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Re: One win away

Postby gh » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:51 pm

Rye Catcher wrote:
JayIsMe wrote:
Rye Catcher wrote:We will never see monohulls again.

Which is sad, I think. The cats may be faster but the monohull's lines were far more elegant and beautiful, at least to my untrained eye. The very embodiment of the term racing yacht.


These big cats are speeding at over 50mph. Displacement monohulls of comparable length will have a maximum speed of about 13mph. The cats are for well trained athletes whereas a good big monohull may have some pot bellied crew members. Even GH and I could crew a monohull.


last monohull i raced on I stood at the pointy end and it almost broached; end of my sailing career :mrgreen:
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Re: One win away

Postby gh » Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:38 am

HMMM.... since I'll be in the city this afternoon, perhaps a walk along the Embarcadero is in order!
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Re: One win away

Postby Blues » Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:20 pm

meninblack wrote:It is a stretch to call the Oracle team "Team USA". It is run by a Kiwi, the crew is mostly Aussies & Kiwis and only includes a single American. Of course, it is USA $$$ funding the campaign.


True, although there might be 2 Americans on the US team... But since it's primarily Dubai $$$ funding the "Emirates Airlines New Zealand" campaign, it's possible that some might also call it a stretch to call that team "Team Kiwi" too... :wink:
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Re: One win away

Postby gh » Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:35 pm

a quick google didn't kick up any easy data on how the Kiwi funding is shared, but the federal government appears to be kicking in no less than $30M (US).

scene at the finish line this afternoon, where I was (but the boats weren't) was us and many thousands of our closest friends. Lotsa Kiwi black.
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Re: One win away

Postby Blues » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:01 pm

gh wrote:a quick google didn't kick up any easy data on how the Kiwi funding is shared, but the federal government appears to be kicking in no less than $30M (US).


Certain articles seem to suggest that they need about 50 to 60 million more than what the New Zealand government contributes to be competitive, and that the governent funding is dependent on a certain amount of guaranteed funding from outside sources.

"Budget overall for 2013 appears to be in the $150M NZD ($80-85M USD) range, based on comments by Dalton that the government's portion of the budget is less than 20% of their total funds. Dalton also pointed out that even with the other partners, the Nespresso sponsorship was critical, and that the team had only stayed in business with the help of several private benefactors."


http://www.cupinfo.com/en/americas-cup- ... -34-01.php
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Re: One win away

Postby gh » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:43 am

but whatever outsiders kick in, the gov't is still kicking in 30M more than the US! (of course, that's the way we roll)
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Re: One win away

Postby Rye Catcher » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:23 pm

Team USA wins twice today making this the most exciting America's Cup of all time. No doubt about it, the Kiwi's were out sailed today. The Americans won both starts and never lost the lead. Get your recorders set up for Monday. Should be a hoot.
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Re: One win away

Postby odelltrclan » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:11 am

Rye Catcher wrote:Team USA wins twice today making this the most exciting America's Cup of all time. No doubt about it, the Kiwi's were out sailed today. The Americans won both starts and never lost the lead. Get your recorders set up for Monday. Should be a hoot.


Most exciting of all time? That is a bit of a stretch I think. At least there is some drama. If Oracle manages through some miracle to come back and sweep the rest of the races and win, then I might be inclined to agree. But having attended the 1983 series in person, still think this pales compared to that.
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Re: One win away

Postby Daisy » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:27 am

If, like me, you're wondering about how these boats work, this is a good short intro video.
Last edited by Daisy on Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: One win away

Postby Rye Catcher » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:20 am

Daisy wrote:If, like me, you wondering about how these boats work, this is a good short intro video.


Good piece on these incredible boats. BTW, 43.5 knots equals 50 MPH. Hard to imagine going that fast on a sailboat.
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Re: One win away

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:31 am

The ice boats that they sail around here when the ice is smooth enough can make 43 knots seem like child's play. I think that the iceboat record is about 130 knots/150 mph (going from memory of a conversation with a former neighbor).
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Re: One win away

Postby Rye Catcher » Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:09 pm

26mi235 wrote:The ice boats that they sail around here when the ice is smooth enough can make 43 knots seem like child's play. I think that the iceboat record is about 130 knots/150 mph (going from memory of a conversation with a former neighbor).


Looks like the official records are 84mph on ice and 126mph on land.

http://www.greenbird.co.uk/ice-record
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Re: Still just one win away. Team USA getting strong

Postby Rye Catcher » Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:13 pm

Team USA has come back very strongly. They now need to win only 3 races to retain the cup. The Kiwi's still must win one race to win the cup, but the Americans have been outsailing the New Zealanders. The Americans have also tweaked their boat to sail faster upwind and it is going to be tough for the challengers. Set your recorders to NBCSP at 1:00PM on Tuesday for the scheduled two races. Exciting stuff in San Francisco Bay.
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Re: One win away

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:45 pm

Rye Catcher wrote:
26mi235 wrote:The ice boats that they sail around here when the ice is smooth enough can make 43 knots seem like child's play. I think that the iceboat record is about 130 knots/150 mph (going from memory of a conversation with a former neighbor).


Looks like the official records are 84mph on ice and 126mph on land.

http://www.greenbird.co.uk/ice-record


The official GPS-measured record; which leaves out a lot of history. The Guinness Book has:

The 1938 claim of 143 mph is the most famous. It appeared in the 'Guinness Book of World Records' as follows: “Fastest Speed, Ice: The fastest speed officially recorded is 143 mph, by John D. Buckstaff in a Class A Stern-Steerer on Lake Winnebago, WI in 1938. Such a speed is possible in a wind of 72 mph.”


Lake Winnebago is a good place to race these boats as it is 80 miles by 20 miles and has a maximum depth of 20 feet. It freezes readily and can be quite flat.
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Re: Still just one win away. Team USA getting strong

Postby Rye Catcher » Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:01 pm

The race is starting. This will be the final day.
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Yikes, the Americans won the first race on Tuesday

Postby Rye Catcher » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:12 pm

They whupped the Kiwi's on the start. Hard to believe the Kiwi's are falling apart.
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Re: Today is the day the cup goes down under!

Postby gh » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:23 pm

this is totally awesome shit! (after mark 2)
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Re: Today is the day the cup goes down under!

Postby Rye Catcher » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:35 pm

gh wrote:this is totally awesome shit! (after mark 2)



It sure is. Hard to believe the turn-around.
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Re: Today is the day the cup goes down under!

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:36 pm

Another Oracle win. Anyone know if race 2 has started yet and what the status is of that race? I might have to take off part of tomorrow if it comes down to one race.
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Re: Today is the day the cup goes down under!

Postby gh » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:37 pm

oh my!!!!!
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Re: Today is the day the cup goes down under!

Postby gh » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:38 pm

we're at tomorrow
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Re: Today is the day the cup goes down under!

Postby gh » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:38 pm

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Re: Today is the day the cup goes down under!

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:39 pm

Rye Catcher wrote:
gh wrote:this is totally awesome shit! (after mark 2)



It sure is. Hard to believe the turn-around.


I have got to believe some of the turnaround is due to the fact that the Kiwi boat has been racing for months in the challenger series and the Oracle boats have just been testing each other, in rides that did not count. Back in the day when they were racing to be the the defenders they were able to be race sharp come finals time.
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Re: Today is the day the cup goes down under!

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:41 pm

gh wrote:we're at tomorrow


Guess the website was a little slow. Who would of thunk this when it was 8 - 1. How close were the races today?? The website just gives winners, no margins of victory.
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Re: Wow, all tied up with one more race on Wednesday. WTA

Postby Daisy » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:51 pm

Didn't the Oracle team start 2 races behind in the standing due to an illegal boat. Would they have already won without that deficit?
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Re: Wow, all tied up with one more race on Wednesday. WTA

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:52 pm

Daisy wrote:Didn't the Oracle team start 2 races behind in the standing due to an illegal boat. Would they have already won without that deficit?


Yes
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Re: Wow, all tied up with one more race on Wednesday. WTA

Postby gh » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:53 pm

decisions, decisions! Watching America's Cup on TV is definitely better entertainment than standing with half of humanity on the shore, but there is that concept of "I was there" for your bragging rights that has me thinking about ditching work tomorrow and heading up to the bayfront for the über-climactic final race.
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Re: Wow, all tied up with one more race on Wednesday. WTA

Postby Daisy » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:57 pm

gh wrote:ditching work tomorrow and heading up to the bayfront.

Do it.
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Re: Wow, all tied up with one more race on Wednesday. WTA

Postby Rye Catcher » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:05 pm

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Re: Wow, all tied up with one more race on Wednesday. WTA

Postby odelltrclan » Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:18 pm

gh wrote:decisions, decisions! Watching America's Cup on TV is definitely better entertainment than standing with half of humanity on the shore, but there is that concept of "I was there" for your bragging rights that has me thinking about ditching work tomorrow and heading up to the bayfront for the über-climactic final race.


Why can't you do both. I am sure there will be TV's there. That work thing on the other hand . . . give yourself a day off!
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Re: Wow, all tied up with one more race on Wednesday. WTA

Postby br » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:02 pm

The American owned Oracle team consists of 2 Americans, 8 Kiwis, 7 Aussies, 2 Dutch, 1 Italian, 1 Canadian, 1 Antigan, 1 Brit and 1 French coach.
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Re: Wow, all tied up with one more race on Wednesday. WTA

Postby gh » Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:37 pm

br wrote:The American owned Oracle team consists of 2 Americans, 8 Kiwis, 7 Aussies, 2 Dutch, 1 Italian, 1 Canadian, 1 Antigan, 1 Brit and 1 French coach.


and one of the Americans (Kostecki) isn't even on the boat since the winning streak started.
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Re: Wow, all tied up with one more race on Wednesday. WTA

Postby Blues » Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:11 pm

br wrote:The American owned Oracle team consists of 2 Americans, 8 Kiwis, 7 Aussies, 2 Dutch, 1 Italian, 1 Canadian, 1 Antigan, 1 Brit and 1 French coach.


So is one type of America's Cup "mercenary" worse than another? With the USA Oracle team, the money comes from an American entrepreneur, but the sailors are primarily mercenaries from other countries... With Emirates Team New Zealand, most of the money comes from the United Arab Emirates/Dubai, but the sailors are primarily mercenaries from New Zealand.... I could be wrong, but to me it pretty much seems like six of one, half a dozen of the other, so I just watch the races and enjoy them without rationalizing, regardless of which team wins.
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