WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug testing


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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby Kav » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:36 am

dustoff wrote:You need to be banned.

The document you yourself posted shows a budget of over half a million USD and other grants that are also used. Additionally, JADCO's funding is not entirely from the Jamaican government.

http://www.iol.co.za/sport/more-sport/j ... hjR_ZK1Fsm

Seriously, quit posting such blatantly false information.

And use google to find out the costs of a test. You can do a urine test yourself for steroids for <$150. Obviously, someone doing them in large bulk (more than 100 tests) or you know, buying the equipment themselves and setting up the lab, is much, much cheaper than that.

On the contrary you are the one who should be banned with a very disingenuous argument.

Let us use the facts shall we, as toyracer posted the budget of roughly $62,000 USD is for the period of 2011-2012.

The material you quoted also highlighted that their present budget for the year 2013-2014 is currently $600,000 USD. That is a major growth.

Your agument is that they should have conducted more test in 2011-2012 yet you are using the current budget as a marker for their ability to do so, when the facts are clear they had no such financial resources. In short you are lying and making stuff up to fit your argument. Finally as Shivfan posted if you bothered to read, the figures quoted in SI are false. So i suggest like others you go and do some research before spouting nonsense on public internet forums.

I made sure i waited before i jumped into this discussion as it was clear that the information released by Si was erroneous. Further more as stated by others the figures of Jadco represent only a portion of the testing done, WADA has their own figures as well. I think with some prudence and a level head this discussion could be more productive, instead of the vitriol i see here.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby toyracer » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:41 am

dustoff; let me get this straight; you are trying to refute the actual Government of Jamaica budget document, using an online South African news article?

You are either being wilfully ignorant or do not know how to interpret a budget document. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and presume it is the latter.

This official government document (which is simply an update of the one I liked to earlier): http://www.mof.gov.jm/sites/default/fil ... 00-1_0.pdf

gives these figures on page 21 (and detailed on page 23):

JADCO April 2011 to March 2012 Financial Year funding = J$6,238,000 = US$62,000

JADCO April 2012 to March 2013 Financial Year funding = J$55,816,000 = US$550,000

JADCO April 2013 to March 2014 budget = J$63,410,000 = US$630,000

The amounts for Hearings and Appeals as well as the WADA membership grant are specific line items that are separate from the operating budget of JADCO, and are duly noted as such.

It is very important to note that in 2012 the national budget was presented late, in May instead of April http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/Bud ... y_11433508 . This is important because with the budget presented in Parliament in May (in a debate that lasts for weeks) actual disbursement doesn't occur until June at the very earliest. Not coincidentally, when the increased 2012-2013 money kicked in there was a corresponding increase in tests, both in-competition and out-of-competition.

The period in question in the SI article, especially the time of the noted absent Out-Of-Competition tests falls within the end of the 2011 Financial Year when there was little money to begin with and the beginning of the 2012 Financial year when there is a time lag for fund disbursement and procurement of testing kits etc. It really isn't difficult to follow.

Again, I challenge you to show an official document that can refute the Government of Jamaica sources I have cited.

And, forget what I can do a urine test for in a local lab. That doesn't work for the IAAF. You must be aware of this. It has to be a WADA accredited lab, and there are not many of those. I'm not going to "use google"; you are the one that said that you could get 2,500 tests done for $100,000 so please, for the education of us all, name the WADA accredited lab that will do such a test, which is not just for steroids but also other compounds, for the sum of $40 per test, including the test kit itself and shipping from Jamaica to the lab. That was your claim, not mine. You back it up.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby dustoff » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:50 am

Kav wrote:
Let us use the facts shall we, as toyracer posted the budget of roughly $62,000 USD is for the period of 2011-2012.
False. The link he posted has a budget of over half a million for 2012-2013.

Your agument is that they should have conducted more test in 2011-2012 yet you are using the current budget as a marker for their ability to do so, when the facts are clear they had no such financial resources. In short you are lying and making stuff up to fit your argument. Finally as Shivfan posted if you bothered to read, the figures quoted in SI are false. So i suggest like others you go and do some research before spouting nonsense on public internet forums.

I made sure i waited before i jumped into this discussion as it was clear that the information released by Si was erroneous. Further more as stated by others the figures of Jadco represent only a portion of the testing done, WADA has their own figures as well. I think with some prudence and a level head this discussion could be more productive, instead of the vitriol i see here.


Vitriol? We have a modern day East Germany with anti-doping officials being the team doctors, literally a page out of the book of East Germany, guys and girls dropping absurd times after decades of mediocrity--with the exact same coaches and facilities mind you, and you think this is vitriol?

Boy, do I wait for the day 10-20 years from now when the extent of all this doping is made public.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby Kav » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:54 am

Once again i suggest you go back to the ministry of finance website and look at what they have your figures for 2011-2012 are incorrect. WHICH IN EFFECT MAKES YOUR POINT MOOT.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby toyracer » Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:33 am

dustoff wrote:
Kav wrote:
Let us use the facts shall we, as toyracer posted the budget of roughly $62,000 USD is for the period of 2011-2012.
False. The link he posted has a budget of over half a million for 2012-2013.


dustoff, you cannot say that the 2011-2012 figures are false when using the 2012-2013 figures for reference. That's nonsense.

I have provided and outlined the source and exact figures for JADCO's budget for its last three Financial years. Those are irrefutable facts from an official Government of Jamaica document on the Government of Jamaica website.

It's now clear: you have no understanding of the differences between a Financial Year and a Calendar Year. The two do not start at the same date (i.e. January 1). And you are also clearly ignoring the fact that the 2011 Financial Year was itself extended by the Jamaican Government's late presentation of the 2012-2013 Budget in early May 2012. You cannot say that the 2012-2013 budget was over a half million dollars and suggest that somehow the lack of tests in the early months of 2012 prior to the actual 2012-2013 funding are somehow a shortfall of the following 2012-2013 budget. Were they to get the half million and go back in time to test?

Still waiting to hear how a test kit and test at a WADA accredited lab can be done for $40, as per your assertion.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby dustoff » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:16 am

In bulk, it can easily be done for $40. Redwood Toxicology has a WADA used a WADA approved lab and an individual can get a test done for under $150. Literally, you are too stupid to do a google search. This is pointless.

You also seem to have the idea that JADCO is entirely funded by the government of Jamaica, which we know to be false. This is getting beyond silly.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby toyracer » Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:09 am

dustoff wrote:In bulk, it can easily be done for $40. Redwood Toxicology has a WADA used a WADA approved lab and an individual can get a test done for under $150. Literally, you are too stupid to do a google search. This is pointless.

You also seem to have the idea that JADCO is entirely funded by the government of Jamaica, which we know to be false. This is getting beyond silly.


You've resorted to name calling. Nice. Very grown up of you.

I actually do know how to use Google. Perhaps you do not, since you cited Redwood Toxicology as an example of where someone could get a WADA approved test done. Contrary to what you may believe, Redwood Toxicology is not WADA accredited. There are only two WADA accredited testing labs in the USA: UCLA Olympic Analytical Laboratory and The Sports Medicine Research and Testing Laboratory (SMRTL). That can be verified at http://wada-ama.org/Documents/Science_M ... ies_EN.pdf

Redwood Toxicology claiming that it "developed a comprehensive and affordable steroid panel that is comparable to WADA" does not automatically mean that any of its test results are acceptable to WADA or the IAAF. In fact, without accreditation from WADA such a claim means nothing. There are only 33 WADA accredited labs in the world and theirs are the only test results that matter to WADA or the IAAF. So whatever amount Redwood Toxicology may charge for their test is irrelevant because WADA would not accept it.

So please, try again to substantiate your claim that a test kit and WADA approved test can all be had for $40, and don't forget the shipping charges from Jamaica.

Additionally, please show where JADCO is getting extra non-Government funds for testing purposes from. The UNESCO funding it received in the past for anti-doping symposiums does not count; that was for specific education purposes, not testing. Even the lady who wrote the SI article referred to JADCO being government funded http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/2013 ... ters1.html when she first surafced a few weeks ago. The source of funding for JADCO was clearly documented when it started, references can be read here http://issuu.com/jadco/docs/jadco_wada_ ... 12_digital (page i) and here http://www.chat-bout.net/content/view/876/ (end of page) . And it is no coincidence that the level of funding JADCO is reporting is identical to that which is contained in the official Government of Jamaica budget document.

So, please, show me where I have presented false information. The ironic thing is that I can (and did) produce evidence to verify every claim that I have made, while you resort to name calling and side stepping verifying your claims and in the one instance so far have been, at best, wrong.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby JWiz » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:34 pm

@toyracer. Don't waste your time. There's no cure for stupid. dusty has an axe to grind and facts won't stop him.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby JumboElliott » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:41 pm

I won't take JADCo seriously until they have a website.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby dustoff » Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:19 pm

Redwood Toxicology uses multiple labs listed. Are you that clueless? Not to mention, the wacky idea that, I don't know, Jamaica could much more cost effectively set-up their own lab and reduce their long-term costs dramatically.

Pretty much every Jamaican that posts in these threads is delusional.

Tough to take a group seriously that thinks anything less than a thousand tests is sufficient and, I don't know, having a truly independent group doing the testing like every other non-3rd world country.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby toyracer » Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:48 pm

dustoff wrote:Redwood Toxicology uses multiple labs listed. Are you that clueless? Not to mention, the wacky idea that, I don't know, Jamaica could much more cost effectively set-up their own lab and reduce their long-term costs dramatically.

Pretty much every Jamaican that posts in these threads is delusional.

Tough to take a group seriously that thinks anything less than a thousand tests is sufficient and, I don't know, having a truly independent group doing the testing like every other non-3rd world country.


Yet another name called. Again, very adult of you.

First of all, Redwood Toxicology prides itself on being an independent facility. Redwood Toxicology has its own lab, and its own version of steroid/sport testing but now you maintain that they farm out their work to other labs? So now you have one lab sending samples to other labs for testing. That makes sense to you? Don't you note that they don't offer WADA accredited testing, which they could list if they actually did farm out to a WADA accredited lab like you seem to be insinuating now? And why would anyone go through a process like that? Why not just send it to the WADA accredited lab in the first place? Just admit that the lab you tried to use as an example was in fact a bad example to use. Perhaps you google'd "wada" and "lab" and got a hit at Redwood but didn't read through all of the info. It happens.

Then you say you want a truly independent group doing the testing but want Jamaica to set up its own lab. Don't you think that if that were done the voices citing collusion and influence would be louder? You yourself seem very unhappy that Jamaicans collect the samples and send them to an independent laboratory in Canada; how happy would you be if Jamaicans collected the samples and tested them in a laboratory in Jamaica?

I am in no group. I have never said that I am happy with the amount of tests, so please do not lump me into whatever group you feel like. I've stated the opposite; I'm not happy with what has been happening. I want a defensible position, and JADCO certainly has not given that to me. However, they are improving, as evidenced by the numbers they have released for 2013 thus far.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby donley2 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:49 pm

I have no intention of getting in the middle of this (often idiotic) conversation. But I do have to wonder why all the vitriol is directed at Jamaica and not at other countries like Kenya and Ethiopia. I realize per capita gdp makes them generally considered 3rd world, but there total gdp's are actually larger than Jamaicas.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby maroon » Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:58 pm

maroon wrote:dustoff -- i am really not inclined to engage with you given your clear lack of bona fides. but in response to your argument about the number of ooc tests -- you are aware that it says 4+, right? you are also aware that we are talking about the iaaf, who have proven history of busting their biggest athletes, right? if the iaaf"s testing is not good enough for you, please take it up with them and please make sure you indicate that whatever standard you require be applied to all 4+ athletes from all nations. finally can you please provide the "receipts" for your accusation that there is unlikely to be testing in the fall and winter?

why are you making stuff up when there are sufficient unflattering facts?


i assume it is poor form to quote oneself. but i see that 2 pages later, the last sentence is still relevant.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby Tuariki » Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:42 am

copied from my posting in Current Events "Doping Study 29% in World Champs"

Tuariki wrote:The following tables have been generated from the annual reports of USADA, Drug Free Sport and WADA plus the JADCO press statement. Hopefully my calculations are correct. Apologies if I have made mistakes in calculations.

USA = USADA - - - NZL = Drug Free Sport NZ - - - - JAM = JADCO
J11 is JADCO figures for 2011 - - - J12 is JADCO figures for 2012
Currency conversion rates as at 1 Jan 2012 from http://www.xe.com

Table 1: Annual revenue
- - - - - mill - - - - - US$ mill
USA - - US$ 14.0 - - - US$14.0
NZL - - NZ$ 2.70 - - - US$ 2.10
J11 - - JA$ 27.9 - - - US$ 0.32
J12 - - JA$ 55.8 - - - US$ 0.65

Table 2: Annual revenue pro rata to population - J11 as the base
- - - - - - - pop - - - US$ M - - US$ M - - - Actual v
- - - - - - - - - - - - - Actual - Pro rata - - Pro rata

USA - - - 316.7 - - - 14.0 - - - 34.8 - - - - 40%
NZL - - - 4.365 - - - 2.10 - - - 0.48 - - - - 437%
JAM - - - 2.910 - - - 0.32 - - - 0.32 - - - - 100%

Table 3: Annual revenue pro rata to population - J12 as the base
- - - - - - pop - - - - US$ M - - US$ M - - Actual v
- - - - - - - - - - - - - Actual - - Pro rata - Pro rata

USA - - - 316.7 - - - 14.0 - - - 70.7 - - - - 20%
NZL - - - 4.365 - - - 2.10 - - - 0.98 - - - - 214%
JAM - - - 2.910 - - - 0.65 - - - 0.65 - - - - 100%

Table 4: Total tests WADA 2012 pro rata population - JAM as the base
- - - - - - pop - - - WADA - - - Tests - - - Actual v
- - - - - - - - - - - - Actual - - -Pro rata - Pro rata

USA - - -316.7 - - - 4051- - - 11536- - - - 35%
NZL - - - 4.365 - - - 1210 - - - 159- - - - - 761%
JAM - - - 2.910 - - - 106 - - - - 106- - - - -100%

Table 5: TnF tests WADA 2012 pro rata population - JAM as the base
- - - - - - pop - - - Tests - - Tests - - - Actual v
- - - - - - - - - - - - Actual - Pro rata - - Pro rata

USA - - - 316.7 - - 1070 - - 6421 - - - - - 17%
NZL - - - 4.365 - - - 88 - - - 88 - - - - - 100%
JAM - - - 2.910 - - - 59 - - - 59 - - - - - 100%

Table 6: Total tests pro rata US$ revenue - J12 as the base
- - -- - - US$ - - - Tests - - Tests - - - Actual v
- - - - - - rev - - - Actual - Pro rata - - Pro rata

USA - - -14.0 - - - 4051 - - 2283 - - - - 177%
NZL - - - 2.10 - - - 1210 - - 342 - - - - - 354%
JAM - - -0.65 - - - 106 - - -106 - - - - - 100%

Table 7: TnF tests pro rata US$ revenue - J12 as the base
- - - - - - US$ - - - Tests - Tests - - - Actual v
- - - - - - rev - - - Actual - Pro rata - Pro rata

USA - - - 14.0 - - -1070 - - 1270 - - - -84%
NZL - - - 2.10 - - - 88 - - - 191 - - - - - 46%
JAM - - - 0.65 - - - 59 - - - 59 - - - - - 100%
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby Tuariki » Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:44 am

Copied from my posting in Current Events" Doping Study 29% in World Champs"

Tuariki wrote:Observations

Table 1: Annual revenue
The actual revenues are converted to US$ at the exchange rate for 1 January 2012.

Table 2: Annual revenue pro rata to population - J11 as the base
The revenues are calculated in US$ on a population pro rata basis using the Jamaica 2011 revenue as the base.
It shows that Jamaican expenditure on a per capita is 2 ½ times that of the USA

Table 3: Annual revenue pro rata to population - J12 as the base

The revenues are calculated in US$ on a population pro rata basis using the Jamaica 2012 revenue as the base.
This table shows that Jamaican expenditure on a per capita is 5 times that of the USA

Table 4: Total tests WADA 2012 pro rata population - JAM as the base
These figures show the total number of tests reported by WADA for all sports conducted by the national authority
The figures are then pro rata’d based on population using Jamaica as the base.
This table shows that Jamaica total testing on a per capita is 3 times that of the USA

Table 5: TnF tests WADA 2012 pro rata population - JAM as the base
These figures show the total number of tests for TnF reported by WADA conducted by the national authority
The figures are then pro rata’d based on population using Jamaica as the base.
This table shows that Jamaica total testing on a per capita is 6 times that of the USA

Table 6: Total tests pro rata US$ revenue - J12 as the base
These figures show the total number of tests reported by WADA conducted by the national authority
The figures are then pro rata’d based on pro rata’d revenue using Jamaica 2012 revenue as the base.
This table shows that Jamaica total testing is about ½ that of the USA on a per capita $ basis

Table 7: TnF tests pro rata US$ revenue - J12 as the base
These figures show the total number of tests for TnF reported by WADA conducted by the national authority
The figures are then pro rata’d based on pro rata’d revenue using Jamaica 2012 revenue as the base.
This table shows that Jamaica total testing is a little about more than that of the USA on a per capita $ basis

The low %age figures for Jamaica, re Table 6 and Table 7, are probably a reflection of the low annual revenue compared to the high fixed costs for the organisation.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby Tuariki » Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:48 am

Dustoff's extreme criticisms of Jamaica would appear to have no basis or foundation other than an obvious anti-Jamaica bias.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby Tuariki » Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:09 am

dustoff wrote:In bulk, it can easily be done for $40. Redwood Toxicology has a WADA used a WADA approved lab and an individual can get a test done for under $150. Literally, you are too stupid to do a google search. This is pointless.

You also seem to have the idea that JADCO is entirely funded by the government of Jamaica, which we know to be false. This is getting beyond silly.


According to the 2012 USADA Annual report:
* USADA revenue for 2012 was US13,999,384
* Total tests conducted by USADA in 2012 was 8,490 across all sports

Therefore, the average cost per test for USADA in 2012 was US$1,648.

By comparison, Jamaica's budget for 2012/2013 was JA$55,800,000 which at today's exchange rate is US$550,035. In the first 7 months of 2013 Jamaica conducted 262 tests. This works out at an average costs per test for JADCO of US$1,224 per test.

calculations [55,800,000 / 101.448 / 12 * 7 * 262]

Dustoff's criticism's would appear to have no substance. And Jamaica appears to beholding their own, at least in comparison to the USA.

However, both countries could no better I am sure.

The cost per test is, as Dustoff suggests, way too high, especially for the USA but then USADA appears to be top heavy in highly paid bureaucrats.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby Tuariki » Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:45 am

donley2 wrote:I have no intention of getting in the middle of this (often idiotic) conversation. But I do have to wonder why all the vitriol is directed at Jamaica and not at other countries like Kenya and Ethiopia. I realize per capita gdp makes them generally considered 3rd world, but there total gdp's are actually larger than Jamaicas.

While your statement is correct that is simply a factor of the much larger populations of Ethiopia and Kenya compared to Jamaica. A fairer and more appropriate way to look at this issue is to compare nominal per capita GDP
USA - - - - -US$50,000
Jamaica - -US$5,300
Kenya - - - US$900
Ethiopia - -US$400
The peoples and the Governments of Kenya and Ethiopia have a lot better things to do than spend millions of dollars every year from their minuscule national budgets to put in place a testing programme. They don't have the funds,they don't have the qualified people, they don't have the infrastructure.

The drug testing regimes of the wealthy western economies rely on a telecommunication and transportation infrastructure that simply does not exist in Kenya and Ethiopia (or eben in Jamaica in some parts). The sanctimonious criticisms of those posters who are, I believe, from rich western nations, are simply exhibiting and perpetuating a continuation of the colonial mentalities of the past.

The TNF homepage a has a story about Usain Bolt informing us that his birth village still doesn't even have running water. And Jamaica is a rich nation compared to Kenya and Ethiopia. Kenya? Ethiopia? Do they have telephones? Land lines? Cell phones? roads? transport? appropriate medical storage facilities?
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby donley2 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:08 am

I said I wasn't going to get in the middle of this, but I must thank tauriki for a reasonably thought out response to my inquiry. I cannot see anything in the previous post that I really disagree with.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby dustoff » Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:42 pm

Tuariki wrote:
dustoff wrote:In bulk, it can easily be done for $40. Redwood Toxicology has a WADA used a WADA approved lab and an individual can get a test done for under $150. Literally, you are too stupid to do a google search. This is pointless.

You also seem to have the idea that JADCO is entirely funded by the government of Jamaica, which we know to be false. This is getting beyond silly.


According to the 2012 USADA Annual report:
* USADA revenue for 2012 was US13,999,384
* Total tests conducted by USADA in 2012 was 8,490 across all sports

Therefore, the average cost per test for USADA in 2012 was US$1,648.

By comparison, Jamaica's budget for 2012/2013 was JA$55,800,000 which at today's exchange rate is US$550,035. In the first 7 months of 2013 Jamaica conducted 262 tests. This works out at an average costs per test for JADCO of US$1,224 per test.

calculations [55,800,000 / 101.448 / 12 * 7 * 262]

Dustoff's criticism's would appear to have no substance. And Jamaica appears to beholding their own, at least in comparison to the USA.

However, both countries could no better I am sure.

The cost per test is, as Dustoff suggests, way too high, especially for the USA but then USADA appears to be top heavy in highly paid bureaucrats.


What on earth are you talking about? Lots of this involves, you know, traveling across the country to conduct testing, conducting sophisticated biological passport tests, conducting CIR tests, and more. It also involves handling the legal procedures that have gone on with the likes of Lance Armstrong. Jamaica is a small island with most of the athletes in or around Kingston and other nearby cities. It is a completely different situation.

I am giving the numbers for simple piss tests, which Jamaica isn't willing to do. Of course, more sophisticated tests are more expensive. Let's work on getting Jamaica to care about doing ANY kind of testing first.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby JumboElliott » Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:03 pm

Tuariki wrote:The drug testing regimes of the wealthy western economies rely on a telecommunication and transportation infrastructure that simply does not exist in Kenya and Ethiopia (or eben in Jamaica in some parts). The sanctimonious criticisms of those posters who are, I believe, from rich western nations, are simply exhibiting and perpetuating a continuation of the colonial mentalities of the past.

If they can't afford to feed their people, then they shouldn't be spending government funds to produce athletes.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby ehop101 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:40 am

Well if we can't have a level playing field then maybe some countries shouldn't compete. This improving crap or it is getting better is for the birds.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby Tuariki » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:18 am

ehop101 wrote:Well if we can't have a level playing field then maybe some countries shouldn't compete. This improving crap or it is getting better is for the birds.

Yes, a great idea. Let only the countries rich enough to afford the systems imposed by the rich nations compete. We should definitely kick out those poor countries who have crap or non-existent testing programmes. By my count that will give greater opportunities for the rich country athletes as it means another 40 medals, at least, available for distribution from Moscow 2013. Maybe it would even help USA overtake Russia.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby toyracer » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:54 am

ehop101 wrote:Well if we can't have a level playing field then maybe some countries shouldn't compete. This improving crap or it is getting better is for the birds.


What exactly is the standard in terms of a minimum level of testing?
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby toyracer » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:31 pm

dustoff wrote:In bulk, it can easily be done for $40. Redwood Toxicology has a WADA used a WADA approved lab and an individual can get a test done for under $150.


In an effort to get legitimate information I called Redwood Toxicology, even though they are not WADA approved.

They don't do business with individuals. They don't do individual tests. They were completely unwilling to even quote for the cost of a Steroid/Sports Test. The very nice operator explained that they deal with institutions (schools, sporting bodies etc) and that such an institution would have to set up an account with them before any further information is divulged.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby JumboElliott » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:22 pm

toyracer wrote:
ehop101 wrote:Well if we can't have a level playing field then maybe some countries shouldn't compete. This improving crap or it is getting better is for the birds.


What exactly is the standard in terms of a minimum level of testing?

The minimum standard should be that the anti-doping body should have the resources available to do an out of competition blood test or carbon isotope ratio urine test on any individual athlete in their testing pool at a given time.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby beebee » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:54 pm

JumboElliott wrote:
toyracer wrote:
ehop101 wrote:Well if we can't have a level playing field then maybe some countries shouldn't compete. This improving crap or it is getting better is for the birds.


What exactly is the standard in terms of a minimum level of testing?

The minimum standard should be that the anti-doping body should have the resources available to do an out of competition blood test or carbon isotope ratio urine test on any individual athlete in their testing pool at a given time.



A declaration of National indigency is truly a limp dick excuse for a virtually nonexistent anti-drug program. I guess we all should shut up and trust them :roll:
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby toyracer » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:43 pm

JumboElliott wrote:
toyracer wrote:
ehop101 wrote:Well if we can't have a level playing field then maybe some countries shouldn't compete. This improving crap or it is getting better is for the birds.


What exactly is the standard in terms of a minimum level of testing?

The minimum standard should be that the anti-doping body should have the resources available to do an out of competition blood test or carbon isotope ratio urine test on any individual athlete in their testing pool at a given time.


They apparently have the resources now. The budget has been increased for Financial Year 2013-2014. But I don't think that just having the resources is enough. Actual testing is what counts. It's no use saying that the personnel and test kits exist to do 500 tests yet none are done. That doesn't do anyone any good. The test numbers for the first half of this Calendar Year showed a marked improvement in relation to the same period last Calendar Year, which is a good thing.

I think that the IAAF/WADA drop the ball where this is concerned. There should be a minimum amount of tests for each standard of athlete. "A" standard must be tested at least "x" times for the year while "b" standard must be tested at least "y" times for the year. When such a minimum target exists, then a national body can be called into question if the target is not met. Now, there is too much ambiguity. With no minimum target there isn't any real way to say that any national testing body is failing, and that's not good.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby ehop101 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:40 am

beebee wrote:
JumboElliott wrote:
toyracer wrote:
ehop101 wrote:Well if we can't have a level playing field then maybe some countries shouldn't compete. This improving crap or it is getting better is for the birds.


What exactly is the standard in terms of a minimum level of testing?

The minimum standard should be that the anti-doping body should have the resources available to do an out of competition blood test or carbon isotope ratio urine test on any individual athlete in their testing pool at a given time.



A declaration of National indigency is truly a limp dick excuse for a virtually nonexistent anti-drug program. I guess we all should shut up and trust them :roll:



All I have to say is preach Beebee!!
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby toyracer » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:16 am

(AP) - The world's anti-doping authority is launching an "extraordinary" audit of Jamaica's drug-testing agency following allegations that its policing of the island's sprinting superstars led by Usain Bolt all but collapsed in the months before they dazzled at the London Games, The Associated Press has learned.

Read more: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/Wor ... ng-Jamaica
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby gh » Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:23 am

this new development has its own thread in Current Events.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby toyracer » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:32 pm

gh wrote:this new development has its own thread in Current Events.


Thanks gh, I saw that after posting, but left it here since it is very relevant.
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