WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug testing


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WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug testing

Postby Loggins » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:43 am

The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) is reportedly threatening to suspend Jamaica from the upcoming Olympic Games in Brazil and other major competitions if the Government does not address failings in the local drug-testing programme.

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/latest/article.php?id=47408

(Jamaica Gleaner)

I find this weird after hearing about 30+ turks, 40+ indians and 50+ russians testing positive before the championships. But maybe the positives are a result of a functioning test regime? Anyways far too many to be allowed to compete in or hold championships like the Olympics for my taste. As most of you know - Russia is hosting the winter Olympics in february.

But definately a sticky case for Jamaica.

(Btw I had to make the topic of the post the way it is because of a limited number of available characters to describe the headline - apologies up front and feel free to edit it)
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby shivfan » Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:01 am

"The commission did not have the staff to carry out rigorous anti-doping programmes, she wrote, and just one out-of-competition test was done between February 2012 and the start of the London Olympics five months later."

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/2013 ... orts1.html

Sometimes we don't understand how badly this dire world economy is hurting developing countries like Jamaica. My wife works at a high commission and their budget has been cut so much that they barely have enough money to pay salaries. A lot of their programmes have been cut or cancelled. It's unrealistic to expect JADCO to have the staff to carry out the programme the way WADA wants....

It's time that WADA funded and oversaw this programme themselves. It's pointless expecting Jamaica to fund JADCO, in these difficult economic times.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby Loggins » Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:19 am

shivfan wrote:It's time that WADA funded and oversaw this programme themselves. It's pointless expecting Jamaica to fund JADCO, in these difficult economic times.



Exactly! Economically disadvantaged countries could benefit from this. Im sure they have the best intentions, but as you say, times as hard. Why not pull together to make dope testing more effective in those countries. Everyone wins.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby trackinblack2 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:22 am

Loggins wrote:
shivfan wrote:It's time that WADA funded and oversaw this programme themselves. It's pointless expecting Jamaica to fund JADCO, in these difficult economic times.



Exactly! Economically disadvantaged countries could benefit from this. Im sure they have the best intentions, but as you say, times as hard. Why not pull together to make dope testing more effective in those countries. Everyone wins.



It seems that WADA is really a Joke in that there is no help for Poor Countries who are
expected to comply with the ever increasing expense of running an Anti-Doping program.

It seems that the war on PED's has been lost to a poor World Economy and the ever increasing
realization that this kind of war can't be won.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby Pego » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:31 am

IOC will allow WADA to expel Bolt, Blake, SAFP... from the games? That's a good one :roll: .
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby Loggins » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:34 am

Pego wrote:IOC will allow WADA to expel Bolt, Blake, SAFP... from the games? That's a good one :roll: .


I cant see it happening. Must be fluff talk - warning message perhaps..
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby booond » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:40 am

Pego wrote:IOC will allow WADA to expel Bolt, Blake, SAFP... from the games? That's a good one :roll: .


It's easy to make the threat three years from the games.

However, if JADCO doesn't show good faith in testing these athletes what is their value? The story likely will become bigger if improvements aren't made.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby dustoff » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:00 am

Are you idiots talking about economy when JADCO had >$600k set aside and couldn't even attempt to conduct real testing?

It is modern day East Germany. The team doctor is the head of anti-doping!
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby JWiz » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:02 am

Wow, Wada did not need to make that statement. As a Jamaican, I'm as upset and embarrased at the country's testing program as anyone. However, at the same time I understand the country's limitations. Furthermore, I am a little surprised with the amount of credibility we are giving the article, especially when internet fodder ala Angel Heredia is being thrown in. :?

We are kind of in a unique situation where our success has greatly surpassed our ability to handle the responsibility. Issuing a statement like that will only reinforce the views of many Jamaicans that we are being unfairly targeted.

Many Jamaicans are still of the view that we don't have a problem, and even those that have accepted the fact with the recent revalations will point to African nations, USA, Spain and other European countries and say "Well what about them?"

JADCO will not succeed. We don't have the resources and the leadership is the epitome of incompetence. Rather than issuing ludicrous threats, Wada might eventually have to step in.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:05 am

Is WADA authorized to step in? What are the rules etc. in such situations?
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:06 am

When it works to Jamaicans advantage to not have the resources spent on ADA the incentives are wrong. Since we have seen a lot of Jamaican positive tests despite essentially no OOC testing, it places a serious cloud over the performance of Jamaican athletes.

Now, a cloud over Jamaican performances could cost the country a lot more than the cost of funding funding the organization at an adequate level.

[Note, this comment was typed several entries ago and then got 'caught' but the subsequent posts until I saw that it had been held.]
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby beebee » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:11 am

Pego wrote:IOC will allow WADA to expel Bolt, Blake, SAFP... from the games? That's a good one :roll: .



Your Nation is a safe haven for off season drug use.

And yes dude the games existed before them and will go on without them.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby LopenUupunut » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:51 am

beebee wrote:
Pego wrote:IOC will allow WADA to expel Bolt, Blake, SAFP... from the games? That's a good one :roll: .
Your Nation is a safe haven for off season drug use.
TAFNY! :D
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby 18.99s » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:52 am

As I've said in another thread, countries should not be the primarily responsible for policing their own doping. It's a conflict of interest, and substandard efforts and/or underfunding will be the common.

OOC anti-doping should be handled by officials who are independent of the country whose athletes are being tested.
Last edited by 18.99s on Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby Pego » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:52 am

beebee wrote:
Pego wrote:IOC will allow WADA to expel Bolt, Blake, SAFP... from the games? That's a good one :roll: .



Your Nation is a safe haven for off season drug use.

And yes dude the games existed before them and will go on without them.


My nation? You could call me many names, a Jamaican is not one of them.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby maroon » Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:56 am

dustoff wrote:Are you idiots talking about economy when JADCO had >$600k set aside and couldn't even attempt to conduct real testing?

It is modern day East Germany. The team doctor is the head of anti-doping!


wtf? i think this is more egregious than accusing an athlete of doping in the absence of a positive test. as the dear late whitney houston would say, "lemme see the receipts".
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby Marlow » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:01 am

dustoff wrote:It is modern day East Germany. The team doctor is the head of anti-doping!

beebee wrote:Your Nation is a safe haven for off season drug use.

Very poor form. :?
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby maroon » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:03 am

beebee wrote:Your Nation is a safe haven for off season drug use.

And yes dude the games existed before them and will go on without them.


the local testing agency does have a spotty ooc testing record. however 19 athletes (the ones winnning the medals) are on the iaaf targeted testing list. the big fish all were tested 4+ times ooc in 2012. see here for details.

http://www.iaaf.org/download/download?filename=ed42193b-f513-4c45-aefd-0de2659b1a6d.pdf&urlslug=2012%20Doping%20Control%20Programme%20-%20List%20of%20tested%20athletes%20

the 19 athletes in the registered testing pool are listed herehttp://www.iaaf.org/download/download?filename=2fae7c26-e221-4631-94c2-66db36dfd947.pdf&urlslug=IAAF%20Registered%20Testing%20Pool
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby beebee » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:09 am

Marlow wrote:
dustoff wrote:It is modern day East Germany. The team doctor is the head of anti-doping!

beebee wrote:Your Nation is a safe haven for off season drug use.

Very poor form. :?


Look...

You cannot have a world class track and field program and a virtually non-existent anti-doping agency without honest people asking questions.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby Pego » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:18 am

beebee wrote:
Marlow wrote:
dustoff wrote:It is modern day East Germany. The team doctor is the head of anti-doping!

beebee wrote:Your Nation is a safe haven for off season drug use.

Very poor form. :?


Look...

You cannot have a world class track and field program and a virtually non-existent anti-doping agency without honest people asking questions.


Yes, but those questions do not have to be rude and/or ad hominem. You tend to resort to those on occasion.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby Loggins » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:20 am

But look - they recentrly caught 5 athletes right? That was JADA or WADA? I thought they were caught by national tests?

Seems like they take things seriously at least. Even if they got problems with funding - or as someone mentioned, corruption bleeding out the funds.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby beebee » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:22 am

Pego wrote:
beebee wrote:
Marlow wrote:
dustoff wrote:It is modern day East Germany. The team doctor is the head of anti-doping!

beebee wrote:Your Nation is a safe haven for off season drug use.

Very poor form. :?


Look...

You cannot have a world class track and field program and a virtually non-existent anti-doping agency without honest people asking questions.


Yes, but those questions do not have to be rude and/or ad hominem. You tend to resort to those on occasion.


Where's the ad hominem?
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby betterthanb4 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:26 am

Despite the threat it's highly unlikely that Jamaica will be 'expelled' from the Olympics. While I disagree with the approach of Ms Shirley in getting this information out initially (the vitriol remarks,timing etc), Jamaica/JADCO does have an urgent issue and a solution should be the primary focus. What this revelation has shown us is the obvious gaps in communication between WADA/JADCO as well as poor management of Jamaica's anti doping program. Nothing more; Nothing less. With the proper funding, management, education/training procedures in place this situation is not a hard fix.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby Pego » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:27 am

beebee wrote:Where's the ad hominem?


"Your nation is a safe haven..." is not ad hominem?
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby dustoff » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:33 am

maroon wrote:
beebee wrote:Your Nation is a safe haven for off season drug use.

And yes dude the games existed before them and will go on without them.


the local testing agency does have a spotty ooc testing record. however 19 athletes (the ones winnning the medals) are on the iaaf targeted testing list. the big fish all were tested 4+ times ooc in 2012. see here for details.

http://www.iaaf.org/download/download?filename=ed42193b-f513-4c45-aefd-0de2659b1a6d.pdf&urlslug=2012%20Doping%20Control%20Programme%20-%20List%20of%20tested%20athletes%20

the 19 athletes in the registered testing pool are listed herehttp://www.iaaf.org/download/download?filename=2fae7c26-e221-4631-94c2-66db36dfd947.pdf&urlslug=IAAF%20Registered%20Testing%20Pool



4x OOC is nothing, not to mention, this could simply mean while they were in Europe, which is when they are going to be clean anyway. The entire fall and winter when the Jamaicans are avoiding the indoor circuit in Europe and staying at home... well.... certainly unlikely to be any testing there.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby maroon » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:36 am

apart from the misdirected "ad hominem", there is a huge gulf between asking questions and making accusations. in any case, your "questions" have been refuted.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby dustoff » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:04 am

maroon wrote:apart from the misdirected "ad hominem", there is a huge gulf between asking questions and making accusations. in any case, your "questions" have been refuted.

lol where did I make an ad hominem? Please do post that.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby maroon » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:22 am

dustoff -- i am really not inclined to engage with you given your clear lack of bona fides. but in response to your argument about the number of ooc tests -- you are aware that it says 4+, right? you are also aware that we are talking about the iaaf, who have proven history of busting their biggest athletes, right? if the iaaf"s testing is not good enough for you, please take it up with them and please make sure you indicate that whatever standard you require be applied to all 4+ athletes from all nations. finally can you please provide the "receipts" for your accusation that there is unlikely to be testing in the fall and winter?

why are you making stuff up when there are sufficient unflattering facts?
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby toyracer » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:36 am

beebee wrote:
Pego wrote:IOC will allow WADA to expel Bolt, Blake, SAFP... from the games? That's a good one :roll: .


Your Nation is a safe haven for off season drug use.


Oddly enough, that's when the out-of-competition tests were done, as shown in the table the author included in her article. She complained about the out-of-competition tests during the competitive season, specifically the period before the Olympics.

dustoff wrote:4x OOC is nothing, not to mention, this could simply mean while they were in Europe, which is when they are going to be clean anyway. The entire fall and winter when the Jamaicans are avoiding the indoor circuit in Europe and staying at home... well.... certainly unlikely to be any testing there.


Except for the fact that she listed the amount of tests for each individual month, which showed the OOC tests in fact occurring in the Fall/Winter. I presume you missed that section of her article.

Jamaica's Testing
Month In-Competition Out-of-Competition Total
January 0 0 0
February 0 10 10
March 0 0 0
April 0 1 1
May 15 0 15
June 81 0 81
July 0 0 0
August 0 16 16
September 0 18 18
October-November 7 14 21
December 5 12 17
TOTAL 108 71 179

So apparently not as unlikely as you think. In fact the numbers show that other than in June at the national trials the athletes are more likely to be tested in the Fall and Winter than any other time, contrary to what you assert.

It is also important to keep in mind that these are numbers for JADCO tests only. IAAF/WADA tests (both in and outside of Jamaica) are not listed, so the amount of IC and OOC tests is surely higher.

Got to love how she named Asafa as an example of "disaster" she claimed to be warning about and then goes on to highlight OOC testing before the London games, which completely ignores the fact that even if Asafa was using the same supplement/stimulant back then it is 100% WADA LEGAL in OOC tests.

By the way, the lady's numbers also highlight something that many seem to have missed; the 106 total tests reported a few weeks ago seem to be not accurate; she has documented 179.

The lady in question does not have the greatest record, but of course SI and its readers have no way of knowing that.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby dustoff » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:35 am

0 OOC tests in January, March, May, June, and July and you are trying to claim they were actively testing?

Quit lying to yourself.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby JumboElliott » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:45 am

I said in another thread that Dick Pound should be dispatched to run a provisional Jamaican anti-doping authority that is completely independent of the Jamaican government.

The Jamaican government has a conflict of interest as far as I'm concerned when it comes to testing the athletes because the success of people like Bolt is in the country's national interest.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby eldanielfire » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:10 am

Pego wrote:IOC will allow WADA to expel Bolt, Blake, SAFP... from the games? That's a good one :roll: .


To be honest Both Blake and SAFP have been banned previously and there are plenty of big names to draw attention in their places. Bolt would be massive but the willingness to not sue him as a factor would set WADA reputation sky high for appearing incorruptible.

Also those athletes won't be round forever.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby toyracer » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:33 am

dustoff wrote:0 OOC tests in January, March, May, June, and July and you are trying to claim they were actively testing?

Quit lying to yourself.


Excuse me, where did I say that? Please, show me where I made any such claim.

You however said it was unlikely that there would be any testing in fall and winter. I posted figures that show otherwise. That's all. I can't help it that you were wrong.

Just to be clear; I'd welcome more testing, much more. However I would also like to see figures that show total test figures for JADCO, IAAF and WADA combined. It cannot be difficult to generate a list of names and numbers.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby dustoff » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:43 am

If there were 0 tests in January and March and with winter being Dec 21 to March 19, I am not really sure where you are getting this idea that they tested in the winter.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby JumboElliott » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:45 am

I'm interested in knowing who was tested and how often.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby toyracer » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:19 pm

dustoff wrote:If there were 0 tests in January and March and with winter being Dec 21 to March 19, I am not really sure where you are getting this idea that they tested in the winter.


Wasn't your assertion Fall and Winter? Or do you just want to side step the first bit now...

In any case, we agree that more testing is necessary. Plus better reporting of same. And someone needs to clean house at JADCO.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby dustoff » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:28 pm

So you now concede there is essentially 0 testing done in the winter, great.

With regards to fall, there is no data on which sport the athletes are coming from in that testing. Even so, if ALL of those were track athletes (since less than half were, this is a generous assumption), it would barely cover 1 test per male athlete with the A-standard. Of course, the reality is that almost nobody got tested in the fall and literally nobody was tested in most of the winter.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby betterthanb4 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:36 pm

JADCo responds to drug-testing criticisms

http://go-jamaica.com/news/read_article.php?id=47414

"According to the local anti-doping authority, 860 tests were conducted during the period May 2009- June this year.

JADCo says in 2012, it conducted 179 tests of which 108 were in-competition and 71 out-of-competition.

JADCo began testing in 2009."
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby Pego » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:52 pm

eldanielfire wrote:To be honest Both Blake and SAFP have been banned previously


Yes, they were, for their own actions. But banned from the Olympics, by far the biggest show on the planet because WADA does not approve how their federation does business? I won't believe that for a second.
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Re: WADA threatens to expel Jamaica -> Olympics -> drug test

Postby skiboo » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:34 pm

Well I will probably be banned for posting this but frankly I`d rather be frank`n`banned than to sit quietly on the sidelines. Where to start? Let`s see....Asafa Powell has been banned this year. Using approximately a 0.20 seconds advantage in the 100 meters thanks to PEDS, Asafa is ~ a 9.92 performer without drugs. Veronica Campbell Brown is ~ a 10.96 performer without drugs. Sherone Simpson is ~ an 11.02 performer without drugs. So, if SAFP is clean, she`d be running 10.50 with drugs, making her 0.46 faster than VCB (without drugs) Usain Bolt, if he is clean, would have run 9.38 with PEDS. Funny that Bolt would be 0.54 faster than the next fastest man (Powell). Funnier still that SAFP would be running ~ 0.46 faster than VCB, if one was using and the other was clean.

Yes, I realize that these are somewhat rough approximations, but if anyone has a better explanation to offer as to why Bolt and SAFP are so much better CLEAN than the drug assisted VCB, Powell, and Sherone Simpson are with their PEDS, feel free to offer up some commentary that makes sense.
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