2013 College Football


A place for the discussion of all things not closely related to the sport and its competitive side. (as always, locked for the duration of major international championship)

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:19 pm

During the glory days right before the SEC integrated (1967-71), Grambling might not have won the SEC, but they wouldn't have finished at the bottom either. By the way Dixon, do you know what Grambling's series record is versus Oregon State? Also, do you remember the days when FAMU would play the University of Miami to get an easy non-conference win? Of course that was before Howard Schnellenberger arrived in Coral Gables.
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10857
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby user4 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:24 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:During the glory days right before the SEC integrated (1967-71), Grambling might not have won the SEC, but they wouldn't have finished at the bottom either..

That sounds quite plausible considering the size of the southern black population.
user4
 
Posts: 1431
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby user4 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:20 am

user4
 
Posts: 1431
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby Dixon » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:26 am

jazzcyclist wrote:During the glory days right before the SEC integrated (1967-71), Grambling might not have won the SEC, but they wouldn't have finished at the bottom either. By the way Dixon, do you know what Grambling's series record is versus Oregon State? Also, do you remember the days when FAMU would play the University of Miami to get an easy non-conference win? Of course that was before Howard Schnellenberger arrived in Coral Gables.


I hate to talk in the negative about my beloved HBCU/SWAC.....honest! I've always had a soft spot for those schools. You've seen my ..All Time HBCU fantasy 4x1/4x4...over on the history forum. I could also do that with football, I'm well aware of the histories.

It's when we start comparing those schools even Grambling to the Big10, SWC, Pac10, Notre Dame, that we start to see the big difference.

Check it out...

QB...Steve McNair Alcorn (Doug Williams?)
RB...Walter Payton Jackson St
RB..Leroy Kelly..Morgan St
WR...Jerry Rice...MVS
WR..Bob Hayes...FAMU
TE..Shannon Sharpe...Savannah St

Wow~~~~~

First 1000 yard rusher for the Raiders...Clem Daneils...Prairie View

Remember the game that changed pro football....SBIII? Who made the big play there, yep...Otis Taylor Prairie View.

Who brought in the zone defense, yep....Bob Hayes FAMU.

There I go rambling on about the HBCU....my bad.
Dixon
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:56 am

Dixon wrote:I hate to talk in the negative about my beloved HBCU/SWAC.....honest! I've always had a soft spot for those schools. You've seen my ..All Time HBCU fantasy 4x1/4x4...over on the history forum. I could also do that with football, I'm well aware of the histories.

It's when we start comparing those schools even Grambling to the Big10, SWC, Pac10, Notre Dame, that we start to see the big difference.

But some of these HBCU's did have success against schools from the "big conferences" back in the day. How do you explain that?

EDIT: Dixon, I've asked you several straight foward questions and you've ignored them, and you still haven't reported what you found out about the SWAC in the years 1966 thru 1972.
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10857
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby Dixon » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:35 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
Dixon wrote:I hate to talk in the negative about my beloved HBCU/SWAC.....honest! I've always had a soft spot for those schools. You've seen my ..All Time HBCU fantasy 4x1/4x4...over on the history forum. I could also do that with football, I'm well aware of the histories.

It's when we start comparing those schools even Grambling to the Big10, SWC, Pac10, Notre Dame, that we start to see the big difference.

But some of these HBCU's did have success against schools from the "big conferences" back in the day. How do you explain that?

EDIT: Dixon, I've asked you several straight foward questions and you've ignored them, and you still haven't reported what you found out about the SWAC in the years 1966 thru 1972.


I started delving into all that then it became real obvious real fast that only Grambling had had more than a couple pro players year in and out. Which was my point, Payton didn't play against teams on a par with the bigger conferences, obviously McNair didn't which was the two you mentioned.

When you start dealing with Alcorn, MVS, Alabama State, Prarie View, Jackson State, Texas Southern we start seeing what I'm talking about. Those teams never had more than a few pro caliber players at any one time.

What would you say is the biggest win an HBCU team had over a biggie?

Even mighty Grambling only had 37ish playing in pro ball from Tank Younger to 1973.

FAMU around 30 prior to 1973.

So you can only imagine what the lesser lights had.

Morgan State 25ish prior to 73.
Dixon
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:49 pm

Dixon wrote: I started delving into all that then it became real obvious real fast that only Grambling had had more than a couple pro players year in and out. Which was my point, Payton didn't play against teams on a par with the bigger conferences, obviously McNair didn't which was the two you mentioned.

When you start dealing with Alcorn, MVS, Alabama State, Prarie View, Jackson State, Texas Southern we start seeing what I'm talking about. Those teams never had more than a few pro caliber players at any one time.

What would you say is the biggest win an HBCU team had over a biggie?

Even mighty Grambling only had 37ish playing in pro ball from Tank Younger to 1973.

FAMU around 30 prior to 1973.

So you can only imagine what the lesser lights had.

But how do those numbers compare to the SEC in that same time frame? Here's what you said:

"Grambling had a lot of NFLers but not that many off any one seasons team."

Who sent more players to the NFL in the late 60's and early 70's? LSU or Grambling?
Last edited by jazzcyclist on Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10857
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby Dixon » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:54 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
Dixon wrote:But some of these HBCU's did have success against schools from the "big conferences" back in the day. How do you explain that?

EDIT: Dixon, I've asked you several straight foward questions and you've ignored them, and you still haven't reported what you found out about the SWAC in the years 1966 thru 1972.


I started delving into all that then it became real obvious real fast that only Grambling had had more than a couple pro players year in and out. Which was my point, Payton didn't play against teams on a par with the bigger conferences, obviously McNair didn't which was the two you mentioned.

When you start dealing with Alcorn, MVS, Alabama State, Prarie View, Jackson State, Texas Southern we start seeing what I'm talking about. Those teams never had more than a few pro caliber players at any one time.

What would you say is the biggest win an HBCU team had over a biggie?

Even mighty Grambling only had 37ish playing in pro ball from Tank Younger to 1973.

FAMU around 30 prior to 1973.

So you can only imagine what the lesser lights had.

But how do those numbers compare to the SEC in that same time frame? Here's what you said:

"Grambling had a lot of NFLers but not that many off any one seasons team."

Who sent more players to the NFL in the late 60's and early 70's? LSU or Grambling?[/quote]

When did this become an SEC thing? Hell look at UCLA, they had around 65 players make pro football rosters while Grambling had less than 40 prior to 1973. I bet if we look at ND, USC, the Big 10 we see something similiar.

And what does any of that have to do with what Payton and McNair faced?

And LSU had around 80 players play pro ball prior to 1973.

I get where you're trying to go with this, the thing is week in and week out a SWAC/HBCU schedule simply didn't match up to what we saw in the bigger conferences. Sure Grambling was a stud but that can't be said about the conference/MEAC in general. Just look at the QB play, other than Williams and McNair ....???? Those schools lacked quality depth. Like I mentioned bro, big up on the HBCU can rattle off everyone who was anyone....trust me.

Look at Tuskegge, NCC, Norfolk State, Arkansas Pine-Bluff, Maryland Eastern Shore, St Augustine etc etc ....who were their NFLers? Yes they had some.
Last edited by Dixon on Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dixon
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby user4 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:55 pm

so prior to mid 60s there was a bias against black players and players from the HBCU sphere. Once the NFL/AFL culture changed and NFL/AFL owners and general managers started to see the untapped reservoir of talent they quickly sought to tap/exploit it. When the SEC started recruiting black players the deflation of HBCU football was inevitable. Just a theory.
user4
 
Posts: 1431
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby Dixon » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:16 pm

user4 wrote:so prior to mid 60s there was a bias against black players and players from the HBCU sphere. Once the NFL/AFL culture changed and NFL/AFL owners and general managers started to see the untapped reservoir of talent they quickly sought to tap/exploit it. When the SEC started recruiting black players the deflation of HBCU football was inevitable. Just a theory.


That's about it, yeah.

Just think (talking track)

1964 Olympic 100m cold...Florida A&M
1965 top ranked 100m sprinter Southern U
1968 Olympic 100m gold Texas Southern
1972 Olympic 100m silver Texas Southern

Only a blind man wouldn't see what's going on there.

The reason the old AFL worked was because they didn't care where the talent came from.
Dixon
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Sep 18, 2013 4:50 pm

Dixon wrote:When did this become an SEC thing?

About two or three pages ago. I'm talking about the SWAC vs the SEC in the 5-7 years immediately preceding the integration of the SEC. The PAC 10 and the Big 10, which had been integrated for decades, are irrelevant to the point I'm making. You've provided the breakdown of 1975, the year that the first Black SEC players would have been headed to the NFL. You've also provided the breakdown for 1964, before the AFL and NFL really became aware of the abundance of talent at HBCU's. But you won't give us the breakdown on the years that I requested and we both know why.
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10857
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby Dixon » Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:27 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
Dixon wrote:When did this become an SEC thing?

About two or three pages ago. I'm talking about the SWAC vs the SEC in the 5-7 years immediately preceding the integration of the SEC. The PAC 10 and the Big 10, which had been integrated for decades, are irrelevant to the point I'm making. You've provided the breakdown of 1975, the year that the first Black SEC players would have been headed to the NFL. You've also provided the breakdown for 1964, before the AFL and NFL really became aware of the abundance of talent at HBCU's. But you won't give us the breakdown on the years that I requested and we both know why.


Not sure I follow, when did I talk up the SEC? This was about Payton/McNair not facing top flight competition. I showed you that there were only 10 SWAC footballers when Payton came out. What does prior Payton have to do with anything?

But to show you I;m not trying to do anything give me one season and I will find every SWACster drafted that year. What school and how many.

I have to wade thru everyone which isn't easy, actually gives me a legit headache.
Dixon
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby user4 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:58 pm

This is a very interesting topic ... But it is certainly not 2013 college football , we should start another thread to explore this 40 50 year old stuff .
user4
 
Posts: 1431
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby Dixon » Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:06 pm

user4 wrote:This is a very interesting topic ... But it is certainly not 2013 college football , we should start another thread to explore this 40 50 year old stuff .


It's when we start delving into all those obscure footballers out of the HBCU like Eugene White a 9.4 man out of FAMU, or Elmore Harris the NCAA 400m champ out of Morgan State :D

Very interesting stuff there in both track and football and tracksters in football.

Check it out...

paste

Ben “Big Ben” Stevenson spent his first years at Tuskegee University as a prep-schooler, which at the time allowed him to play eight seasons in all for the Golden Tigers, from 1923 to 1930. During that span, the team amazingly suffered only two defeats. Stevenson combined speed (9.8 100-yard dash), strength and durability. Scoring on a combination of long runs and drop kicks, he also played defensive back, earning a reputation as one of the top pass thieves in the conference. Stevenson was named to seven consecutive Black College All-America teams, numerous Negro all-time All-America teams and was voted as the game's greatest all-around player.
Dixon
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:36 pm

user4 wrote:This is a very interesting topic ... But it is certainly not 2013 college football , we should start another thread to explore this 40 50 year old stuff .

You're right and I apologize. I've hijacked my own thread. :oops:
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10857
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby Dixon » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:08 pm

Ok college football 2013

Ohio State vs FAMU

what will the score be?
Dixon
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:18 pm

Dixon wrote:Ok college football 2013

Ohio State vs FAMU

what will the score be?

It won't be pretty.
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10857
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby Bruce Kritzler » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:13 pm

Bethune Cookman (3-0) at Florida St (2-0) this Sat.
At least they are keeping the $ in state.
Bruce Kritzler
 
Posts: 3125
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby Dixon » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:18 pm

Bruce Kritzler wrote:Bethune Cookman (3-0) at Florida St (2-0) this Sat.
At least they are keeping the $ in state.


Bethune Cookman is the king of HBCU football. Wouldn't it be something if they actually kept it close? They have the best back in the MEAC in Isidore Jackson.
Dixon
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby user4 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:35 pm

Dixon wrote:
Bruce Kritzler wrote:Bethune Cookman (3-0) at Florida St (2-0) this Sat.
At least they are keeping the $ in state.


Bethune Cookman is the king of HBCU football. Wouldn't it be something if they actually kept it close? They have the best back in the MEAC in Isidore Jackson.


Never say never , I'm amazed inthe last decade at how often big10 teams get taken by surprise by 1Aa teams like univ of nh ... Lightning strikes! .... just dont bet on it .
user4
 
Posts: 1431
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby Dixon » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:48 pm

user4 wrote:
Dixon wrote:
Bruce Kritzler wrote:Bethune Cookman (3-0) at Florida St (2-0) this Sat.
At least they are keeping the $ in state.


Bethune Cookman is the king of HBCU football. Wouldn't it be something if they actually kept it close? They have the best back in the MEAC in Isidore Jackson.


Never say never , I'm amazed inthe last decade at how often big10 teams get taken by surprise by 1Aa teams like univ of nh ... Lightning strikes! .... just dont bet on it .


Miami beat BC 38-10 last season, that's respectable.

Savannah State played Oklahoma State, they lost...84-0..ouch~~~~~~
Dixon
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby user4 » Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:43 am

Dixon wrote:
user4 wrote:
Dixon wrote:
Bruce Kritzler wrote:Bethune Cookman (3-0) at Florida St (2-0) this Sat.
At least they are keeping the $ in state.


Bethune Cookman is the king of HBCU football. Wouldn't it be something if they actually kept it close? They have the best back in the MEAC in Isidore Jackson.


Never say never , I'm amazed inthe last decade at how often big10 teams get taken by surprise by 1Aa teams like univ of nh ... Lightning strikes! .... just dont bet on it .


Miami beat BC 38-10 last season, that's respectable.

Savannah State played Oklahoma State, they lost...84-0..ouch~~~~~~


A) BC and Miami are both ACC

B) Regarding OSU, makes me wonder, 1) what kind of athletic director allows his OSU cowboys to have a regular season game against "Savannah State". 2) After allowing the game to happen what kind of OSU coach allows his team to score 84 points against "Savannah State"! ... Those are felonies against civilization !
user4
 
Posts: 1431
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby Marlow » Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:10 am

user4 wrote:
Dixon wrote:Bethune Cookman is the king of HBCU football. Wouldn't it be something if they actually kept it close? They have the best back in the MEAC in Isidore Jackson.

Never say never , I'm amazed inthe last decade at how often big10 teams get taken by surprise by 1Aa teams like univ of nh ... Lightning strikes! .... just dont bet on it .

To be more precise, if this were any other FSU of the post-Bowden era, there would be some suspense as to the size of the blow-out, but Jameis Winston is proving to be the Real Deal and the 'Noles are thirsty for blood, having gorged on it for the entire 90s, and then being so mediocre in the 00s. Jimbo will have them whipped up and Winston is the guy they might be able to ride into Glory, if not this year, then soon.
Marlow
 
Posts: 21078
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:00 pm
Location: Somewhere over the . . . hill

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby user4 » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:41 am

user4 wrote:... but at some point the board of trustees through a new longhorn athletic director dont give Brown a next week .. the clock is ticking. As an old Texas governor used to say.. "stick a fork in 'em.. he's done"!.. meanwhile 600 miles north on the cool and open plains of Nebraska a certain Bo Pelini sweats..


user4 wrote:Bo no's ... lots of no's ...
http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/travis- ... ost?id=798


The "we support him" song is the opening scene in the first act of the "we cant wait to get rid of him" play... it has commenced...

http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... -bo-pelini
user4
 
Posts: 1431
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby Dixon » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:08 am

user4

BC=Bethune Cookman

I'm guessing a lot of OSU backups got in the game, a little excited about playing.
Dixon
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby user4 » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:14 am

Dixon wrote:user4

BC=Bethune Cookman

I'm guessing a lot of OSU backups got in the game, a little excited about playing.


Only to a devoted and sold out fan of the HBCU would BC == Bethune Anything !! Looks like Miami took it easy on them.

yeah, I have heard that from coaches, when a game is a blow out, the second string goes in but you cant tell a second stringer not to try and prove he should be first string... Same with the third string.
user4
 
Posts: 1431
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby Blues » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:17 am

Dixon wrote:Wrapping up this SWAC situation.

Grambling is head and shoulders above the rest of those schools as far as NFL talent goes. Not that that is a surprise. The rest of the SWAC just so so (compared to other conferences)

Speaking of HBCU football.

I don't like to see this....

FAMU vs Ohio State
Bethune Cookman vs FSU
Savannah State vs Miami

This needs to be stopped.

I see the guys on the right scoring over 120 points combined while the guys on the left, hmmm...30? I'm probably being a little conservative with the 120.


I don't condone gambling, but you're a little more conservative than the Vegas bookies... As I write this, FAMU is a 50 point underdog at Ohio State, Bethune Cookman is a 40 point underdog at FSU, and Savannah State is a 60 point underdog at Miami, FL...
Blues
 
Posts: 1088
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:58 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby user4 » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:25 am

Blues wrote:
Dixon wrote:Wrapping up this SWAC situation.

Grambling is head and shoulders above the rest of those schools as far as NFL talent goes. Not that that is a surprise. The rest of the SWAC just so so (compared to other conferences)

Speaking of HBCU football.

I don't like to see this....

FAMU vs Ohio State
Bethune Cookman vs FSU
Savannah State vs Miami

This needs to be stopped.

I see the guys on the right scoring over 120 points combined while the guys on the left, hmmm...30? I'm probably being a little conservative with the 120.


I don't condone gambling, but you're a little more conservative than the Vegas bookies... As I write this, FAMU is a 50 point underdog at Ohio State, Bethune Cookman is a 40 point underdog at FSU, and Savannah State is a 60 point underdog at Miami, FL...


Ill take Savannah state to stay within 60 of Miami ! And if they dont you know what I think of the Miami coaching staff.
user4
 
Posts: 1431
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby lonewolf » Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:47 pm

user4 wrote:[B) Regarding OSU, makes me wonder, 1) what kind of athletic director allows his OSU cowboys to have a regular season game against "Savannah State". 2) After allowing the game to happen what kind of OSU coach allows his team to score 84 points against "Savannah State"! ... !


I am an Ok St loyalist and I was embarassed too. OSU should not have scheduled Savannah State, who willingly showed up for a payday.
The other hand, OSU played the bottom of the depth chart and, as user4 said, those guy want to move up.. I don't know what Gundy could have done except tell em to take a knee three times and punt... then he would have been accused of insulting Savannah State...
lonewolf
 
Posts: 8813
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am
Location: Indian Territory

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby Dixon » Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:37 pm

I'm watching Jackson State vs Texas Southern when in comes...DeFancy Jones...gotta love it :D
Dixon
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby Dixon » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:44 pm

Tonight on one of the ESPN's it's Fresno State vs Boise, check out Fresno receiver Isaiah Burse, kid is amazing.
Dixon
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby user4 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:18 pm

Dixon wrote:Tonight on one of the ESPN's it's Fresno State vs Boise, check out Fresno receiver Isaiah Burse, kid is amazing.

Great First half ... Eye poping intensity out there!
user4
 
Posts: 1431
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby Dixon » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:38 pm

user4 wrote:
Dixon wrote:Tonight on one of the ESPN's it's Fresno State vs Boise, check out Fresno receiver Isaiah Burse, kid is amazing.

Great First half ... Eye poping intensity out there!


The QB play..outstanding!
Dixon
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:33 am

Dixon, don't you think it's ironic that North Dakota State is hosting this week's College Gameday in light of the debate we've had over the last week regarding the so-called big schools and little schools? Anyway, without hijacking my own thread again, here are some facts and trivia that I figured might interest some of the posters here:

- NFL Draft Picks by Year

    1966 Grambling 5 LSU 3
    1967 Grambling 4 LSU 4
    1968 Grambling 5 LSU 4
    1969 Grambling 8 LSU 4
    1970 Grambling 8 LSU 3
    1971 Grambling 8 LSU 3
    1972 Grambling 4 LSU 4
    1973 Grambling 4 LSU 2
    1974 Grambling 4 LSU 2

- The record for most players selected by the NFL in a single draft from a school in Mississippi is 11 from Jackson State in the 1968 draft, which is also more than any SEC school in a single draft. For comparison, the most NFL draft picks in a single year from Miami, Florida State, Florida, Alabama and LSU are 11, 10, 10, 9 and 9 respectively. In its last four years before integration, Alabama had 3 draft picks in 1968, 2 in 1969, 0 in 1970 and 1 in 1971.
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10857
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby user4 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:05 am

jazzcyclist wrote:Dixon, don't you think it's ironic that North Dakota State is hosting this week's College Gameday in light of the debate we've had over the last week regarding the so-called big schools and little schools? Anyway, without hijacking my own thread again, here are some facts and trivia that I figured might interest some of the posters here:

- NFL Draft Picks by Year

    1966 Grambling 5 LSU 3
    1967 Grambling 4 LSU 4
    1968 Grambling 5 LSU 4
    1969 Grambling 8 LSU 4
    1970 Grambling 8 LSU 3
    1971 Grambling 8 LSU 3
    1972 Grambling 4 LSU 4
    1973 Grambling 4 LSU 2
    1974 Grambling 4 LSU 2

- The record for most players selected by the NFL in a single draft from a school in Mississippi is 11 from Jackson State in the 1968 draft, which is also more than any SEC school in a single draft. For comparison, the most NFL draft picks in a single year from Miami, Florida State, Florida, Alabama and LSU are 11, 10, 10, 9 and 9 respectively. In its last four years before integration, Alabama had 3 draft picks in 1968, 2 in 1969, 0 in 1970 and 1 in 1971.


That is interesting and it speaks volumes about the football talent at Grambling and Jackson State in the late 60s - early 70s. It may also speak volumes about the national mood and the right minded efforts that were made to quickly and effectively integrate the NFL in that time period.

There was a cultural wave across the country to integrate all institutions and the NFL was on the cutting edge of it. The NFL deserves a great deal of credit for making sure that men were judged not by the color of their skin but by their talents and skills. Make no mistake Grambling and Jackson State had the talent but there was also an attitude and a written and unwritten code that was designed to right past wrongs and it worked. Just a guess. Now if I had to guess who would win in a game in any given year Grambling or LSU, Id pick LSU. LSU was competitive with Bama in that era.

November 7, 1964 Birmingham, AL Alabama 17–9
November 6, 1965 Baton Rouge, LA Alabama 31–7
November 5, 1966 Birmingham, AL Alabama 21–0
November 11, 1967 Baton Rouge, LA Alabama 7–6
November 9, 1968 Birmingham, AL Alabama 16–7
November 8, 1969 Baton Rouge, LA LSU 20–15
November 7, 1970 Birmingham, AL LSU 14–9
November 6, 1971 Baton Rouge, LA Alabama 14–7
November 11, 1972 Birmingham, AL Alabama 35–21
November 22, 1973 Baton Rouge, LA Alabama 21–7
November 9, 1974 Birmingham, AL Alabama 30–0
November 9, 1975 Baton Rouge, LA Alabama 23–10
November 6, 1976 Birmingham, AL Alabama 28–17
November 5, 1977 Baton Rouge, LA Alabama 24–3
November 11, 1978 Birmingham, AL Alabama 31–10
November 10, 1979 Baton Rouge, LA Alabama 3–0

Imagine a 2013 college football game where guys are judged by their play on the field and not on grudges held against other people from events 56 years ago.
user4
 
Posts: 1431
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:05 pm

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby Dixon » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:45 am

jazzcyclist wrote:Dixon, don't you think it's ironic that North Dakota State is hosting this week's College Gameday in light of the debate we've had over the last week regarding the so-called big schools and little schools? Anyway, without hijacking my own thread again, here are some facts and trivia that I figured might interest some of the posters here:

- NFL Draft Picks by Year

    1966 Grambling 5 LSU 3
    1967 Grambling 4 LSU 4
    1968 Grambling 5 LSU 4
    1969 Grambling 8 LSU 4
    1970 Grambling 8 LSU 3
    1971 Grambling 8 LSU 3
    1972 Grambling 4 LSU 4
    1973 Grambling 4 LSU 2
    1974 Grambling 4 LSU 2

- The record for most players selected by the NFL in a single draft from a school in Mississippi is 11 from Jackson State in the 1968 draft, which is also more than any SEC school in a single draft. For comparison, the most NFL draft picks in a single year from Miami, Florida State, Florida, Alabama and LSU are 11, 10, 10, 9 and 9 respectively. In its last four years before integration, Alabama had 3 draft picks in 1968, 2 in 1969, 0 in 1970 and 1 in 1971.


I'm curious why Gameday wasn't in Stanford, I see this as a slap in the face of the Pac12.

Not that it isn't cool to showcase these small schools.

But, I see what you're saying, as we know it's the depth of quality athletes that is the huge difference between D-1 and the others....obviously.

My point about the HBCU schools is while Grambling/Jackson State had great success what about the rest of the a SWAC or the MEAC? So once ya got by Grambling and Jackson State;...now what? Give me some names out of Alcorn, Alabama State, St.Augustine, NCC, Norfolk St, Tuskeggee, Savannah State, Alabama A&M, Bethune Cookman. Total lack of quality depth on any one team.

The SEC was lilly white back then, hell hurdler Richmond Flowers was also the top SEC sprinter. While Grambling had Olympians Stone Johnson/Richard Stebbins. That translated to the football field....lack of speed/quicks.
Dixon
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:15 am

user4 wrote:That is interesting and it speaks volumes about the football talent at Grambling and Jackson State in the late 60s. It may also speak volumes about the national mood and the right minded efforts that were made to quickly and effectively integrate the NFL.

There was a wave across the country to integrate all institutions and the NFL was on the cutting edge of it. Make no mistake Grambling and Jackson State had the talent but there was also an attitude and a written and unwritten code that was designed to right past wrongs and it worked. Just a guess, just a theory.

The truth is actually a lot simpler and less altruistic than that IMO. NFL owners wanted the best players regardless of what color they were, they weren't trying to right past wrongs, lest we forget that the lion's share of HBCU hall of famers played college football in those years.

As for Bear Bryant and the other SEC coaches, they knew the SEC was getting left behind in the mid-60's, but none of them felt they could take on the hardcore, segregationist politicians (eg. Wallace, Barnett, Maddox, etc.), not to mention the fan bases. Bryant had tried to encourage a few Black players to walk on prior to 1971, but they all inevitably left due to the hostility of players and fans who saw no reason for change due their inability to see into the future. After Alabama's 6-5 1969 season, Bryant decided it was time to take drastic measures, and that's when he called USC's John McKay and made a deal for him to bring his Trojans to Birmingham for the 1970 season opener, and as Paul Harvey would say, "You know the rest of the story". After the game, McKay said he walked to midfield to shake hands Bryant anticipating a bit of hostility from Bryant for embarrassing him on his home field, but instead Bryant embraced him heartedly and said, "Thank you mind friend". It's the general consensus that Bryant was the one SEC coach who had the stature that he could have integrated sooner using a more direct approach, a la Dean Smith, but supposedly Bryant had an aversion to politics and didn't want to spend that kind of political capital taking folks like George Wallace despite the fact that he would have likely prevailed.

user4 wrote:If I had to guess who would win in a game in any given year Grambling or LSU, Id pick LSU. LSU was competitive with Bama in that era.

One of my favorite historical what-if sports questions is what would have happened if Grambling of the glory years had played the SEC's best at that time? Obviously, there's no way an SEC team was going to schedule an HBCU in those days, but what if? Grambling did beat Oregon State in 1975, but the Beavers were one of the weakest teams of the PAC-10 back then and Grambling was already about five years past its prime.
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10857
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby Dixon » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:22 am

If we look at the 60's early 70's we'll see Grambling losing to North Dakota St, trading wins with Long Beach State, beating Fullerton State a couple times, beating Sacramento State. They'd have a hard time against SEC schools. I think the lines/QB play would be the big difference.

I do believe an All Star HBCU team could play with an All Star SEC team back when.
Dixon
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:25 am

Dixon wrote:My point about the HBCU schools is while Grambling/Jackson State had great success what about the rest of the a SWAC or the MEAC? So once ya got by Grambling and Jackson State;...now what? Give me some names out of Alcorn, Alabama State, St.Augustine, NCC, Norfolk St, Tuskeggee, Savannah State, Alabama A&M, Bethune Cookman. Total lack of quality depth on any one team.

As I said earlier, I didn't want to derail the thread, I only provided the facts that I knew you were aware of but refused to provide. However, first you said that none of the HBCU's had depth during the pre-integration era, then you conceded that Grambling had depth but none of the other HBCU's did, and now you're conceding that Jackson State had depth also, but none of the others did. Of course I can debunk that myth just as easily as I've debunked your first two, but how about we start a separate thread for that, or do it via pm's so as not to hijack this thread any further.
jazzcyclist
 
Posts: 10857
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:32 am

Re: 2013 College Football

Postby Dixon » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:37 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
Dixon wrote:My point about the HBCU schools is while Grambling/Jackson State had great success what about the rest of the a SWAC or the MEAC? So once ya got by Grambling and Jackson State;...now what? Give me some names out of Alcorn, Alabama State, St.Augustine, NCC, Norfolk St, Tuskeggee, Savannah State, Alabama A&M, Bethune Cookman. Total lack of quality depth on any one team.

As I said earlier, I didn't want to derail the thread, I only provided the facts that I knew you were aware of but refused to provide. However, first you said that none of the HBCU's had depth during the pre-integration era, then you conceded that Grambling had depth but none of the other HBCU's did, and now you're conceding that Jackson State had depth also, but none of the others did. Of course I can debunk that myth just as easily as I've debunked your first two, but how about we start a separate thread for that, or do it via pm's so as not to hijack this thread any further.


Actually I was comparing the HBCU schools to Div I schools not just the SEC. I thought I made that clear. If we looked at USC,UCLA, ND, the Big10, SWC vs the HBCU in any era what would we see?

It's an interesting topic, we're talking football.

Jackson State had 14 players get drafted before 1973. Between 1950-1972 Alabama had 26.
Last edited by Dixon on Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dixon
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:35 am

PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests