5 More Jamaican positives [and now Damar Robinson]


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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives? [Simpson & Powell?]

Postby cladthin » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:43 pm

By trainer do they mean an athletic trainer/physiotherapist or a strength coach? From the statement about helping AP to get over a rash injuries I would assume the first.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives? [Simpson & Powell?]

Postby tm71 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:52 pm

Flumpy wrote:
tm71 wrote: I don't imagine many people would want to be unable to work for 5 yrs (if their career spam is 20 yrs)


But they can work. No one's stopping them from getting a job in McDonalds.


Easy for any of us, armchair analysts, to say.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives? [Simpson & Powell?]

Postby gh » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:53 pm

Looks like Traves Smickel and Demar Robinson.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives? [Simpson & Powell?]

Postby ATK » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:58 pm

gh wrote:Looks like Traves Smickel and Demar Robinson.

So that brings us to 4 since Carter is still just speculation at this point.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives? [Simpson & Powell?]

Postby jamal00005 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:59 pm

ATK wrote:
gh wrote:Looks like Traves Smickel and Demar Robinson.

So that brings us to 4 since Carter is still just speculation at this point.

It seems Carter is in the clear atm according to the new report i just watched
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives? [Simpson & Powell?]

Postby tm71 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:01 pm

ATK wrote:
gh wrote:Looks like Traves Smickel and Demar Robinson.

So that brings us to 4 since Carter is still just speculation at this point.


Phil hersh in his article claims that an English paper reported that carter was also named. Of course I am hesitant to trust hersh, the english paper or anyone else.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives? [Simpson & Powell?]

Postby jjimbojames » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:04 pm

tm71 wrote:
Flumpy wrote:
tm71 wrote: I don't imagine many people would want to be unable to work for 5 yrs (if their career spam is 20 yrs)


But they can work. No one's stopping them from getting a job in McDonalds.


Easy for any of us, armchair analysts, to say.

And easy for them to do - this is a real bugbear of mine! Track owes no one a living - whomever you are, however good you might be. The sooner people accept this and cut the 'restraint of trade' crap the better. If people learnt to accept this reality, they might be a little less inclined to find ways to stop themselves getting paid to run round an oval

Just because you're good at English doesn't mean a publisher should give you a job, let alone if you were caught plagiarising work. Simple.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives? [Simpson & Powell?]

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:07 pm

TrackTeacher_AP wrote:
26mi235 wrote:
TrackTeacher_AP wrote:Sounds like this will be just like when Yohan Blake and Mike Rodgers got caught taking stimulants.. They'll get a slap on the wrist and that's it. I feel like if it is banned the punishment should be much more harsh however when you have already set such a lax precedent you cannot treat this case any differently.


Murder and stealing $5 are both crimes - they merit the same punishment? I hope you are never a teacher for my kids.


Wow you are really trying to imply that murder and stealing are equal to taking ped's? That is complete nonsense. The fact is they took something that enhanced their performance whether knowingly or not, and that may have taken money from everyone they compete with in the form of prize money, appearance fee's, sponsorships, or even race invites.


Didn't do well on those SAT word analogies did we? I did not equate either to doping, I de-equated one vs the other, just like not all doping positives are the same offense.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives? [Simpson & Powell?]

Postby ATK » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:17 pm

tm71 wrote:
ATK wrote:
gh wrote:Looks like Traves Smickel and Demar Robinson.

So that brings us to 4 since Carter is still just speculation at this point.


Phil hersh in his article claims that an English paper reported that carter was also named. Of course I am hesitant to trust hersh, the english paper or anyone else.

Actually, I kind of spoke to soo. We technically only have 2 since gh didn't provide a source for Smickel and Robinson (and I cant find one myself).

Any source gh?
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

Postby toyracer » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:19 pm

The usually very reliable Gleaner reporter Andre Lowe has reported the names of Smikle and Robinson.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives? [Simpson & Powell?]

Postby Flumpy » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:40 pm

jjimbojames wrote:And easy for them to do - this is a real bugbear of mine! Track owes no one a living - whomever you are, however good you might be. The sooner people accept this and cut the 'restraint of trade' crap the better. If people learnt to accept this reality, they might be a little less inclined to find ways to stop themselves getting paid to run round an oval

Just because you're good at English doesn't mean a publisher should give you a job, let alone if you were caught plagiarising work. Simple.


Exactly. If you want to compete don't cheat. It's a pretty simple concept.

Once you've been caught you should have absolutely no right to do so again unless the sport is nice enough to allow it (Which they shouldn't).

If I invite some to my party and they piss on the carpet, they're not getting invited back.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives? [Simpson & Powell?]

Postby MJR » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:41 pm

Flumpy wrote:If I invite some to my party and they piss on the carpet, they're not getting invited back.


TAFNY nominated quote! :D
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives? [Simpson & Powell?]

Postby betterthanb4 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:54 pm

CookyMonzta wrote:
betterthanb4 wrote:http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport/Trainer-of-Asafa--Sherone-Simpson-detained-in-Italy#ixzz2Z3U2Qgjh

Trainer of Asafa, Sherone Simpson detained in Italy

MONTEGO BAY, Jamaica -- The Observer has been reliably informed that an associate of embattled Jamaican athletes Asafa Powell and Sherone Simpson was in the last two hours detained by the Italian police and his room searched at the MVP base in Italy.

Observer sources said that the trainer is being questioned based on the fact that both athletes tested positive for banned substances they ingested from supplements he provided, without any declaration that illegal stimulants might have been in them.


The Canadian recently started working with the athletes and was allegedly brought in to help Powell get over a rash of injuries he has suffered the last few seasons.

Read more: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport/Tr ... z2Z3Wayn9c

Was this trainer in any way ever associated with Charlie Francis?


No info on that.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

Postby Trackrunner » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:20 pm

This story about the personal trainer being detained by police is just bad, bad, bad. It means that whatever was ingested was not a supplement by your standard manufacturer, since they're going after the trainer and not the product manufacturer. It would appear to be one of those private label products that the trainer doles out as part of a program. Why take a chance ingesting a niche product when you know what is at stake if it is in anyway tainted and not just use a standard supplement. Hopefully it at least came with an ingredient list but this strikes me at first blush as risky and careless for a pro athlete in track and field.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

Postby tm71 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:26 pm

Trackrunner wrote:This story about the personal trainer being detained by police is just bad, bad, bad. It means that whatever was ingested was not a supplement by your standard manufacturer, since they're going after the trainer and not the product manufacturer. It would appear to be one of those private label products that the trainer doles out as part of a program. Why take a chance ingesting a niche product when you know what is at stake if it is in anyway tainted and not just use a standard supplement. Hopefully it at least came with an ingredient list but this strikes me at first blush as risky and careless for a pro athlete in track and field.


Exactly !!! If u can't trust people in your own camp how can u trust an outsider ?
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

Postby betterthanb4 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:27 pm

Let's be clear Nesta Carter has not tested positive.

Asafa Powell, Sherone Simpson, Allison Randal(Discus) Traves Smickle (Discus)and Demar Robinson are the 5 whose A sample returned adverse analytical findings.
Last edited by betterthanb4 on Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

Postby betterthanb4 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:40 pm

This physical trainer began working with MVP in May.
Last edited by betterthanb4 on Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

Postby Marlow » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:40 pm

In his article, Phillip Hersh said

Defenders of track and field and cycling will be quick to say their sports catch people because their anti-doping efforts are serious, while pro sports like football, baseball, hockey and tennis have a wink, wink attitude toward use of PEDs.
No matter that such an argument is valid, it hardly absolves runners and cyclists of guilt for doping positives.

I object to the characterization. I think MOST of us are going to, as Gay himself said, 'take this like a man.' There is no equivocation at all. Busted, done.
BUT . . . what we do NOT like is that the sport of T&F is now assumed - dirty, wall to wall - while MLB and the NFL have JUST as much dirt as we do and fingers are only pointed at individuals there, while the sports continue to thrive.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

Postby toyracer » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:42 pm

TVJ News:

Asafa & Sherone = stimulant

The two throwers = diuretic

The jumper = anabolic steroid-like substance
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

Postby betterthanb4 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:01 pm

toyracer wrote:TVJ News:

Asafa & Sherone = stimulant

The two throwers = diuretic

The jumper = anabolic steroid-like substance


Thanks for the update.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives? [Simpson & Powell?]

Postby Tuariki » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:20 pm

26mi235 wrote:
TrackTeacher_AP wrote:
26mi235 wrote:
TrackTeacher_AP wrote:Sounds like this will be just like when Yohan Blake and Mike Rodgers got caught taking stimulants.. They'll get a slap on the wrist and that's it. I feel like if it is banned the punishment should be much more harsh however when you have already set such a lax precedent you cannot treat this case any differently.


Murder and stealing $5 are both crimes - they merit the same punishment? I hope you are never a teacher for my kids.


Wow you are really trying to imply that murder and stealing are equal to taking ped's? That is complete nonsense. The fact is they took something that enhanced their performance whether knowingly or not, and that may have taken money from everyone they compete with in the form of prize money, appearance fee's, sponsorships, or even race invites.


Didn't do well on those SAT word analogies did we? I did not equate either to doping, I de-equated one vs the other, just like not all doping positives are the same offense.

Oops. if your SATs are too low 26mi235, then you are risking your opportunity to be allowed to run for an NCAA school.
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Re: More Jamaican positives [split] [Simpson one]

Postby Kav » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:49 pm

americantrackfan wrote:Well, I can now check off on the bucket list "Get a Jamaican mad at me on the T&FN boards." :D

I'm not familiar with Simpson's accomplishments (although I am familiar with the name). Can someone post her PB's and medals?


Wrong again on two counts. Firstly i'm not a Jamaican citizen and secondly i certainly was not mad at you. I don't get upset over message board discussions and you sir are certainly not worth getting upset with.

Quite frankly i have a serious distaste for people who make sweeping generalizations and you have been doing a lot of them today. So i called you out on them. Feel free to discuss anything as long as it is civil. However when you make generalizations of a malicious nature it does cast you in a negative light.

Back on to the more important topic:

I have an issue with the WADA listing itself. More specifically its emphasis on things of a similar chemical structure. That opens a very large chasm to sully someones character.

More importantly, who is this trainer and what exactly did he supply to the athletes?
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives? [Simpson & Powell?]

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:27 pm

Tuariki wrote:Oops. if your SATs are too low 26mi235, then you are risking your opportunity to be allowed to run for an NCAA school.


I was the dumb one in the family, only hit 1440; wife outscored me by 150.
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Re: More Jamaican positives [split] [Simpson one]

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:31 pm

Kav wrote:Quite frankly i have a serious distaste for people who make sweeping generalizations


agree

Also, the Italian police are sometimes rather aggressive, so not too sure that too much should be made of this.
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Re: More Jamaican positives [split] [Simpson one]

Postby croflash » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:24 pm

26mi235 wrote:
Kav wrote:Quite frankly i have a serious distaste for people who make sweeping generalizations


agree

Also, the Italian police are sometimes rather aggressive, so not too sure that too much should be made of this.


I don't like generalizations either, but maybe it is time to accept that some performances just aren't humanly possible without the help of doctors and PEDs. If we are honest, many of us suspect this anyway. I really wonder what would happen if all drugs were cleared, maybe this would actually be progress at this point. The anti-doping efforts over the last decades haven't led to anything. A philosophical debate about the positives and negatives of legalizing doping would be endless.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

Postby Stooges » Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:46 am

Susanna Kallur Is not happy (free translation).
"Idiots. Powell, Gatlin, Gay, VCB, Simpson and Co. Give the bastards a litetime ban so I don´t ever have to see them again"

"When I took the WC record It was with home cooked food , milk and chips on friday nights. And ofcourse tacos".
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

Postby ldnbloke » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:19 am

Stooges wrote:Susanna Kallur Is not happy (free translation).
"Idiots. Powell, Gatlin, Gay, VCB, Simpson and Co. Give the bastards a litetime ban so I don´t ever have to see them again"

"When I took the WC record It was with home cooked food , milk and chips on friday nights. And ofcourse tacos".

Just became a big fan of S Kallur.
Stimulants ( why do they need them?), acne but no TUE, 'water tablets in a cream' , looking like they have developed acromegaly in the winter beire their breakthrough season, such severe asthmatics that they need heavy doses of step 4 asthma treatment ( in which case why did they pass their medical to be cleared for elite sports?)
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Re: More Jamaican positives [split] [Simpson one]

Postby batonless relay » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:26 am

croflash wrote:
26mi235 wrote:
Kav wrote:Quite frankly i have a serious distaste for people who make sweeping generalizations


agree

Also, the Italian police are sometimes rather aggressive, so not too sure that too much should be made of this.


I don't like generalizations either, but maybe it is time to accept that some performances just aren't humanly possible without the help of doctors and PEDs. If we are honest, many of us suspect this anyway. I really wonder what would happen if all drugs were cleared, maybe this would actually be progress at this point. The anti-doping efforts over the last decades haven't led to anything. A philosophical debate about the positives and negatives of legalizing doping would be endless.

For someone who doesn't like generalizations you sure can't seem to stop using them (because some cynics believe that "some performances just aren't humanly possible without the help of doctors and PEDs" then we all should? And, that's the only way "we can be honest"?). I think differently: I think the clearing of all drugs would be even more "unequal" and even a larger step backwards.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

Postby zidan » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:12 am

Don't like those remarks from Kallur, as an athlete she should know better.
From a layman standpoint I just don't believe all drug related cases are deliberate from the athletes standpoint....Look at Powell for e.g. took something that is suppose to help and finish seventh at the trials.. am confused.
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Re: More Jamaican positives [split] [Simpson one]

Postby toyracer » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:12 am

Kav wrote:More importantly, who is this trainer and what exactly did he supply to the athletes?


The trainer is, as reported by The Jamaica Observer, Chris Xuereb.

A Google search found a LinkedIn profile for a Chris Xuereb, listing him as Athletic Therapist/Trainer at Healing and Training in the Toronto Canada area.

Further info on his profile stated:

*Speed/Power Coach
*Soft Tissue Massage and Treatment Specialist
*Health and Nutritional Advisor
*Coaches Elite and Olympic athletes (past and present) from Canada, USA and the Caribbean. *Specializes in Track and Field events and also soccer.

So that's the "who" (as reported at http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport/As ... all-player)

The "what" is what is in question.

I do know that the talk of new supplement(s) is factual.

I also know that there is not 100% certainty of the source of the stimulant. Hence the term "investigation" etc used in Asafa's release.

Beyond that I would be betraying a confidence.

Something to keep in mind that may perhaps put this particular case in perspective; if Asafa and Sherone had been tested out-of-competition as Tyson Gay was, they would not have returned AAF's even with oxilofrine in their systems.

On a personal note, that's what has always been puzzling to me about the WADA code. WADA says, in effect, "yes, you can use this when not competing but if we find traces of it when you compete then you are busted".
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Re: More Jamaican positives [split] [Simpson one]

Postby batonless relay » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:22 am

toyracer wrote:On a personal note, that's what has always been puzzling to me about the WADA code. WADA says, in effect, "yes, you can use this when not competing but if we find traces of it when you compete then you are busted".

And, that's why it should be banned all the time. MAKE IT CLEAR. WADA needs to make the rules concise enough to fit on a post-it note instead of this nonsense of office hours of a part-time post office (open on Tuesdays, but only every other Tuesday that has an odd number date...)
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives? [Simpson & Powell?]

Postby mump boy » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:40 am

Smoke wrote:So let us go back, do we all still believe an athlete is responsible for any and all substances in their bodies? This is an impossible burden of proof. We know that the FDA does not require all substances be listed. And it is not in nefarious products. I refer you all back to the infamous nandrolone cases.

mump there is so much richness in your post, I am chuckling. Glad to see you have come around :roll:


Which post ? i have so many insightful ones
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives? [Simpson & Powell?]

Postby mump boy » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:50 am

jjimbojames wrote:
tm71 wrote:
Flumpy wrote:
tm71 wrote: I don't imagine many people would want to be unable to work for 5 yrs (if their career spam is 20 yrs)


But they can work. No one's stopping them from getting a job in McDonalds.


Easy for any of us, armchair analysts, to say.

And easy for them to do - this is a real bugbear of mine! Track owes no one a living - whomever you are, however good you might be. The sooner people accept this and cut the 'restraint of trade' crap the better. If people learnt to accept this reality, they might be a little less inclined to find ways to stop themselves getting paid to run round an oval

Just because you're good at English doesn't mean a publisher should give you a job, let alone if you were caught plagiarising work. Simple.


What he said ^^
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Re: More Jamaican positives [split] [Simpson one]

Postby croflash » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:50 am

batonless relay wrote:
croflash wrote:I don't like generalizations either, but maybe it is time to accept that some performances just aren't humanly possible without the help of doctors and PEDs. If we are honest, many of us suspect this anyway. I really wonder what would happen if all drugs were cleared, maybe this would actually be progress at this point. The anti-doping efforts over the last decades haven't led to anything. A philosophical debate about the positives and negatives of legalizing doping would be endless.

For someone who doesn't like generalizations you sure can't seem to stop using them (because some cynics believe that "some performances just aren't humanly possible without the help of doctors and PEDs" then we all should? And, that's the only way "we can be honest"?). I think differently: I think the clearing of all drugs would be even more "unequal" and even a larger step backwards.


Sports are not equal to begin with because not everyone has the same amount of "talent". Which begs the question how talent should even be defined. Where do favorable genetics start and where do they end? Should we just accept this as a given or shouldn't everyone be given a chance? Is it fair that some have better chances than others according to today's definition of talent? Why should it be someone's birth right to be more gifted athletically than others? If this sounds confusing, I sure hope it does because I just don't believe anymore that the equation of talent, doping, training, dedication and how they relate to one another is accurately defined.

I used to strictly be against doping, but after watching all sorts of sports over the years, I'm just not sure that today's system is really the best, let alone ideal. Is the goal of anti-doping to prevent doping, to give everyone a fair shot or to level the playing field? If it is the latter, then this obviously isn't working right now. If it is to prevent doping without a clear aim, but because of some alleged values in society, I wonder who defined those values and whether they reflect today's world we live in. People don't care nearly as much - if at all - about doping in other areas of life, be it a student taking drugs to help direct his focus and allow him to work harder or anyone who just desires to improve his performance at work.

So what I'm trying to say is that I don't think doping in sports is the problem itself, it is our definition of values that make it such. It is a cultural, sociological and philosophical issue, not an athletic one. I'm not claiming that doping should be allowed and legalized for sure, but I also don't think the idea can easily be dismissed when PEDs are such a big part of sports and it's debatable whether anti-doping campaigns, raising awareness of possible health damage and doping prevention in general has made considerable progress over the last years and decades.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

Postby batonless relay » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:19 am

Don't really care what you "used to be against", and your justifications don't amount to anything but paragraphs on the verge of a failing grade in a philosophy class; the rules are the rules and just because we're dealing with humans and human nature is not a valid reason to give up. It's tantamount to giving up on any and all crime because they will always be here. What else? Medicine doesn't always work so let's get rid of all doctors. The judicial system doesn't work perfectly so lets get rid of all laws. Politics doesn't work so let's get rid of all politicians. On second thought, you may have a point.

You're also wrong that it's not an athletic problem (and that is cultural, sociological and philisophical). Dead wrong. Organized athletics are about rules and it really doesn't matter if it's no PEDs or the uniform must match or that athletes can't have metal blades on their feet to propel them. For the record, I think PED education is stupid; it's a waste of money. The rules are the rules and they should be enforced. I don't think testing and catching athletes is a problem; and though the cynics are always arguing that everyone is dirty because the cynics couldn't perform on that level or coach on that level, the reality today is that the biggest names in the sport have been caught. Proving the LIE that testing is not designed to catch the big fish. They got Whale Sharks this weekend.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:54 am

I made a comment about the Italian police sometimes being (overly?) aggressive. Given the story on the front page, it seems that WADA requested the action. The found about 50 containers with drugs or such things. No analysis yet of the contents, but this looks much more suspicious.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

Postby toyracer » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:10 am

Paul Doyle requested WADA to initiate the raid. I have just been reliably informed that the only room raided was the room of the trainer.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

Postby toyracer » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:30 am

On a Noon news report on Power 109, in a voice interview played on the station agent Paul Doyle stated that he is the one that hired the trainer for Asafa in May, that MVP did not approve the supplement nor had knowledge that it was given. The supplement was apparently given by the trainer directly to the two athletes. Further, Sherone did some checks of her own (he did not say with who etc) and received no information indicative of a banned substance contained in the supplement.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

Postby Jackaloupe » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:44 am

"I believe we need to STOP ATHLETES FROM USING SUPPLEMENTS"

Whoa! Why the sudden leap from Stimulants (setting aside the obvious diff. from Steroids, HGH, etc.) to Supplements, which presumably include Protein concentrate, used post-workout; Glucosamine, and more recently Hyaluronic Acid, a natural component of synovial fluid, for so-called joint support; even Carbo-laced Energy Drinks.

The entire world of non-USDA tested/regulated Nutritional Supplements is having a hard enough time as it is; and, yes, it's as full of charlatans (O2-boosted Water, any diff. from aerated?!?) as any commercial sector. Please tell me you were only using "Supplements" as shorthand for stimulants and related borderline products (I'd posted on one of the 400mH guys, maybe Dai Green, prominently chugging a Red Bull or some such at the blocks, not unlike Skiers holding up their skis seconds after the finish), and not actual Nutritional Supps.
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Re: 5 More Jamaican positives [Simpson & Powell big names]

Postby betterthanb4 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:48 am

toyracer wrote:On a Noon news report on Power 109, in a voice interview played on the station agent Paul Doyle stated that he is the one that hired the trainer for Asafa in May, that MVP did not approve the supplement nor had knowledge that it was given. The supplement was apparently given by the trainer directly to the two athletes. Further, Sherone did some checks of her own (he did not say with who etc) and received no information indicative of a banned substance contained in the supplement.



Thanks.

This is getting more suspicious.
betterthanb4
 
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