2013 Tour de France


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2013 Tour de France

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:18 am

In all my years of following bike racing, the end of today's stage was the biggest clusterfuck I've ever seen. Talk about the fans being robbed. Jesus Christ! :(
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby lonewolf » Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:50 pm

TheTour d France is going on??
I have not seen anything on TV or press about it.
My electricity was off for about three hours yesterday ... but that hardly explains it.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby bambam » Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:58 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:In all my years of following bike racing, the end of today's stage was the biggest clusterfuck I've ever seen. Talk about the fans being robbed. Jesus Christ! :(


Have to agree - maybe the biggest in any sport
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby DrJay » Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:46 pm

The bus was the proverbial stalled-car-on-the-train-tracks. I wonder if they tried to back it out earlier? If not, they waited too long. Maybe they'll address that in tonight's delayed coverage.

Froome sounds like a prohibitive favorite (if he can stay out of trouble...he went down in the first 1K of the first stage!). I hope the GC is not a yawner.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby Brian » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:37 pm

An errant Jack Russell Terrier almost livened it up today!
.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:27 pm

Brian wrote:An errant Jack Russell Terrier almost livened it up today!
.

I saw that. A couple of years ago, someone else had a dog that caused a major crash. You would think that having an unleashed dog at the biggest bike race in a cycling-mad country like France would be a criminal offense.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby jeremyp » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:15 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
Brian wrote:An errant Jack Russell Terrier almost livened it up today!
.

I saw that. A couple of years ago, someone else had a dog that caused a major crash. You would think that having an unleashed dog at the biggest bike race in a cycling-mad country like France would be a criminal offense.

Has any of those idiot fans ever run out and tripped into the Peloton? I must admit I pray for it in my darker moments.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby Pego » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:12 am

jazzcyclist wrote:
Brian wrote:An errant Jack Russell Terrier almost livened it up today!
.

I saw that. A couple of years ago, someone else had a dog that caused a major crash. You would think that having an unleashed dog at the biggest bike race in a cycling-mad country like France would be a criminal offense.


It should be a criminal offense in every country. That should be treated as an assault with a deadly weapon.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby bambam » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:25 pm

jeremyp wrote:Has any of those idiot fans ever run out and tripped into the Peloton? I must admit I pray for it in my darker moments.


In the 1975 Tour a fan ran out near the top of a mountain stage when Eddy Merckx was leading the stage. The French fan wanted Bernard Thevenet to win the stage and the Tour, so he assaulted Merckx on his bike, punching him in the abdomen, apparently quite hard. Merckx, who was trying to win his 6th Tour, went down but recovered although he was not the same in that tour and lost to Thevenet. (I wasn't quite certain of some of these details but just checked it and I have it correct)
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby jazzcyclist » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:56 am

Poor Mark Cavendish. He's finding out that its not so easy to win bike races when you don't have a leadout train that can impose its will on the race. He left Sky for Omega because he didn't want to be on a team that had a GC contender on it. Instead, he wanted to be on a team whose sole purpose was to help him win stages. I guess Sky isn't looking so bad to him now, since though they only worked for him half of the time, on those times that it did decide to work for him, they delivered him to victory. What good is it to have a dedicated leadout train if its too weak to stay with you until you get to the last couple of hundred meters? He won three stages last year with Sky but I doubt that he'll match that this year.

And to insult to injury, he had to deal with this today: Cavendish doused with urine in Tour de France time trial
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby user4 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:44 am

jazzcyclist wrote:Poor Mark Cavendish. ...

And to .... insult, he had to deal with this today: Cavendish doused with urine in Tour de France time trial


That is not funny!
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:01 pm

In all my years following bike racing, I've never seen crosswinds dynamite the peleton to the extent that it did today. Looking at the pancake flat road profile of this stage, I never would have thought that it could provide such excitement from beginning to end.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby DG » Sat Jul 13, 2013 8:29 am

The group Belkin prepared since may for this etape (suspecting, that it would have a high level of crosswinds).
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:52 pm

Here's the link to a great article on yesterday's stage. I think it does a good job of giving a graphic description of how quickly decisions must be made once the hammer goes down in a pro bike race.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/07/ ... nds_294869
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:07 pm

Note that some of the teams that reacted the quickest were from the Low Lands. Also, under Armstrong's tenure, the team was almost always prepared to use the wind (or other unusual factors) to its strategic advantage. Forget about doping in that first Tour win; the gap was all made on the passage of the road connecting Mt Saint Michele to the mainland. It was very slippery and the Postal team was all in front of a slip that then blocked the causeway. By the end of the causeway they had a modest lead but kept hammering (with some wind too?) until the following group gave up. The sprinters teams eased up when they knew that they could not catch the front and the GC guys/teams could no longer hold the slim gap to the front and dropped 6+ minutes, including Zulle, a pre-race favorite. Armstrong won by the amount he picked up on that stage.

This year, I am not real enthusiastic about the race. There are some things that do not seem quite, well.... We will see tomorrow, although I am going for a long early ride and will have to watch the ascent on replay.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby jazzcyclist » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:17 pm

26mi235 wrote:We will see tomorrow, although I am going for a long early ride and will have to watch the ascent on replay.

I'm planning on watching tomorrow's stage along with the Sunday morning news and sports talk shows while riding my new stationary bike that my family gave me recently as a birthday gift. Functionally, nothing is wrong with my old stationary bike, but this one is a lot smoother and nicer overall.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby 26mi235 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:27 pm

Plan is to hit the weather in the 62-72 range for 60 miles/3.5hours on the trails (few hills, mainly rails-to-trails). The world can wait.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby ExCoastRanger » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:21 pm

26mi235 wrote:Plan is to hit the weather in the 62-72 range for 60 miles/3.5hours on the trails (few hills, mainly rails-to-trails). The world can wait.


Pretty much my plan as well, with more road than rail trail, right down to expected temperature range although less humidity. Will probably have to hit a few climbs in the spirit of the morning's stage.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:31 am

26mi235 wrote:Plan is to hit the weather in the 62-72 range for 60 miles/3.5hours on the trails (few hills, mainly rails-to-trails). The world can wait.

Rails to trails? Are you riding a mountain bike these days? 72 was the overnight low where I live and we don't have any hills.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby bambam » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:11 am

26mi235 wrote:Plan is to hit the weather in the 62-72 range for 60 miles/3.5hours on the trails (few hills, mainly rails-to-trails). The world can wait.


Well, I was gonna ride this AM before Mont Ventoux as well, but since its raining (it rains every day now in North Carolina), I'll see if I can get out around noon, after the race. I rode in the rain yesterday afternoon. Not as much as you guys - maybe about 30 miles.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby DrJay » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:00 am

jazzcyclist wrote:Here's the link to a great article on yesterday's stage. I think it does a good job of giving a graphic description of how quickly decisions must be made once the hammer goes down in a pro bike race.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/07/ ... nds_294869


The Cavendish interview after the stage was great. He was obviously in great spirits after the win, and he really described how you've got about 5 seconds to get it right or you're off the back, in this case of an echelon (formation to combat the wind) but that might apply to a breakaway or other situations. I'm just an old guy weekend punter, but that was amply demonstrated to me last year in the first "organized" ride I ever did, the Santa Fe Century. I was riding alone on a very long straight stretch, mild quartering wind from the right front. Saw over my left shoulder what I thought was an approaching car but a few seconds later a group of 20 cyclists pass me instead. It took me less than 5 seconds after the last one passed to realize maybe I should hop aboard, they weren't killing it compared to my pace (I actually did ride with them a bit later, after passing them at an aid stop), but those few seconds were it. I tried to catch them for a minute or so but absolutely could not on my own.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:30 pm

jazzcyclist wrote:
26mi235 wrote:Plan is to hit the weather in the 62-72 range for 60 miles/3.5hours on the trails (few hills, mainly rails-to-trails). The world can wait.

Rails to trails? Are you riding a mountain bike these days? 72 was the overnight low where I live and we don't have any hills.


Yes, my training bike is a 34 pound, front shock, ~1999 mountain bike. With the rain of the last six weeks, the trails have been eroded in places and it is no place for a road bike. A couple of years ago was the last time I could hit 20mph on the trails/road mix and now I cannot even do it on the roads with that bike. However, I repatriated my road bike from my father-in-laws in Tucson and can ride that some here in the hills of the driftless area west of Madison (i.e., not flattened by glaciers). If it is not too hilly or too long (e.g., >40mi) I can still hit 20. And, next month I start Social Security, so eventually I will have more time to ride (but the body seems to say -- you want to do what?).

As for the race, it played out like I was afraid it would. I wish I was more comfortable with Froome/Sky being clean. :?
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby DrJay » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:41 pm

Great stage. Froome clearly the dominant guy this year. Quintana could be on the podium at age 23, and in his first Tour no less.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby 26mi235 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:44 pm

The next time trial will be better for him, but he will need to break some guys on the double Alp'd Huez stage. If he had held is powder dry on the stage in the Pyrenees he would be close to third already.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby jeremyp » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:22 am

DrJay wrote:Great stage. Froome clearly the dominant guy this year. Quintana could be on the podium at age 23, and in his first Tour no less.

Yeah that climb was quite dramatic, and Quintana was great but Froome greater. I have so much respect for these guys. On another note I would love to have them show us the traffic jam after the race. A quarter of a million people on a narrow road, and half of them drunk? Vive les Fans.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby DrJay » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:26 am

jeremyp wrote:
DrJay wrote:Great stage. Froome clearly the dominant guy this year. Quintana could be on the podium at age 23, and in his first Tour no less.

Yeah that climb was quite dramatic, and Quintana was great but Froome greater. I have so much respect for these guys. On another note I would love to have them show us the traffic jam after the race. A quarter of a million people on a narrow road, and half of them drunk? Vive les Fans.


I bet it's Tuesday evening before most everyone is down. Oops, maybe longer. Tuesday's stage starts in Vaison la Romaine, a little village of 6201 people about 20 miles down from the summit of Mt. Ventoux (they pass through it on the Mt. Ventoux stage.) So 250,000 drunken cycling fans don't want the party to end, drive 20 miles downhill, and stop. After the first thousand or so vehicles do that, what can the other gazillion do?

I sure hope Vaison la Romaine bought some extra toilet paper this month.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:35 pm

jeremyp wrote:On another note I would love to have them show us the traffic jam after the race. A quarter of a million people on a narrow road, and half of them drunk? Vive les Fans.

When I went to the Alpe D'Huez stage in 2001, I had a hotel room in the village, so I didn't have to fight the traffic that evening. I met a lot of Americans in the bars and restaurants and when folks that you meet find out you have a hotel room, you become real popular since many of them are desperately looking for a place to shower.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:39 pm

What do you folks think of the latest campaign for equality of the sexes?

Marianne Vos has Olympic gold medals and the road race world champion's rainbow jersey in her trophy cabinet. Now she wants the chance to add a yellow jersey.

The Olympic road race champion is among a group of cyclists, including British Olympian Emma Pooley, who have launched an online petition urging Tour de France organizers to let women participate in next year's race.

In an online letter to Tour director Christian Prudhomme, the riders say that after a century "it is about time women are allowed to race the Tour de France, too."

A "Tour Feminin" women's race in France that was staged in the past, but not since 2009, "lacked parity, media coverage, and sponsorship" the letter to Prudhomme says.

Pooley won the 2009 race, known as the Grande Boucle Feminine, and Vos placed third.

The riders backing the petition said letting women race in the men's Tour, "will also create an equal opportunity to debunk the myths of physical `limitations' placed upon female athletes."

http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance/tdf ... -de-france
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby DrJay » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:18 pm

Football, boxing, and rasslin' aside (I just don't think of women in those sports), Le Tour is one event where it seems like there should be a women's equivalent. We have a women's World Cup, women in most of the same Olympic sports/events as men, etc etc.

How to do it is the question. Seems like you'd have to run the men's and women's Tour concurrently, to have any chance of the women getting enough attention to warrant the cost/logistics. Could both genders go on the same stage each day? Maybe the men start 15 minutes ahead of the ladies? Or the women on a given stage on one day and the men on the same the next? Massive logistic issues.. You'd need two caravans of support vehicles and whatnot, and twice as many start/finish setups if they were on consecutive days rather than the same. Twice as many helicopters. You'd have to clone Phil Liggett and Paul Sherwin, or better, get Katharine Merry all learned-up about cycling.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:21 pm

But I think they don't want a separate Tour, they want to ride in THE Tour. At least that's what I got out of the article. Here are the key words:

"letting women race in the men's Tour"
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby 26mi235 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:18 pm

Unfortunately, they are great athletes but at a disadvantage large enough to make it not work. It would not be good to see most of the women dropped and many dropped and eliminated by the time cut. Vos and her caliber could stay in the peloton, I think, but would get distance on the climbs, and would be with the groupo eventually. And, there are not that many that would be able to do that. And, would you give a team a 10th rider to have a woman on the team. A full team of women might not have enough strength to fend for themselves. Without the background/history of preparing for and participating in long stage races, doing the 100+ miles a day and the hilly 240km stages it is really unlikely to work.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby jazzcyclist » Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:43 pm

I doubt seriously that there's a single woman who could make the time cut on a mountain stage, and some might be holding on for dear life on the flat stages on some of the uncategorized climbs.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby 26mi235 » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:50 pm

Very interesting day today. For at least the second time this Tour and as in the Last Tour, Contador seems to think that the best strategy is for he and a top climbing guy to try and out-ride a couple of teams to gain minimal time on the road and then be unable to climb the final obstacle. Yes, he has to be aggressive, but really, aggressive does not mean foolish strategy.

Too bad VanGarderan had the mechanical and had to work so hard to chase back on the last decent. I would have been a great race for the win.

It was frustrating; the last 3km, the race for first and the race between a flagging Froome and Q/R were getting to their peak when .... my feed stopped. I eventually went and read the ticker. Later, I saw a second showing that had the race (but with ads).

Unless Froome is cooked and the guys who worked so hard today are fresh for tomorrow's meat grinder (two 1s and 1 HCs, I think), no one is closing the 5+ minutes. However, 2-5 are all 5:xx minutes back with a big battle to play out. I will take Movistar's Q, although he may have shot his wad -- he has stronger backup)
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby DrJay » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:57 pm

Great stage, just watching the last 2K now.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby DrJay » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:59 pm

How many times has the Tour winner not won a stage? (I know Froome has won stages this year.)
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby jazzcyclist » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:14 pm

DrJay wrote:How many times has the Tour winner not won a stage? (I know Froome has won stages this year.)

I believe Greg LeMond (1990) is the lone member of that club.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby bambam » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:35 am

So yesterday and on Ventoux Froome and Sky (Porte) deliberately broke the rules in the last X km by going back to the team car for food and water. They were fined a few $100, which means nothing to them, and yesterday penalized 20 seconds, which in the grand scheme of things also means very little.

So why is this not as bad as doping? They know the rule. They are deliberately breaking it to gain an advantage - the other teams and riders are following the rules. Froome even admitted he was bonking yesterday without sugar when he was interviewed. Why not penalize them 5 minutes or something really meaningful? Why not disqualify them and ban them from the sport for 2-years for deliberately breaking a known rule? I think what they did yesterday was an egregious offense, given that they had already done it on Ventoux, been penalized for it, and clearly knew they were breaking the rule.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby jazzcyclist » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:31 am

I kind of see where you're going with this. If Froome was really bonking, then this was a rule violation that directly affected the outcome of the race. If he had not broken the rule, he might have lost the Tour. On the other hand, if historically, this type of offense has always been treated as a misdemeanor, it would be wrong to start treating it as a felony without any prior warning.
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby lonewolf » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:51 am

I admit ignoramity about cycling... do the rules required cyclists to carry water and "snacks" for the entire stage on their person/bike?
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Re: 2013 Tour de France

Postby Master Po » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:21 am

jazzcyclist wrote:I kind of see where you're going with this. If Froome was really bonking, then this was a rule violation that directly affected the outcome of the race. If he had not broken the rule, he might have lost the Tour. On the other hand, if historically, this type of offense has always been treated as a misdemeanor, it would be wrong to start treating it as a felony without any prior warning.


I get bambam's point, and yours. It is odd, at least imo, that such a practice that can really affect the outcome of the competition is on the one hand recognized as a rules infraction, but on the other hand is hardly sanctioned within the rules of the competition. (And, I'll add that this is my first knowledge of this particular practice/rules infraction in the Tour, so I truly know nothing else about this matter. Would be interested to read discussion from jazzcyclist and/or anyone else in the know.)
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