how good was David Beckham?


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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Fri May 31, 2013 4:13 pm

Brian wrote:But this (boldface) says more about us--and our as a culture ridiculous obsession with celebrity--than it does Beckham..

Any culture that would make Paris Hilton and the Kardashians household names is in deep decline!!
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby lonewolf » Fri May 31, 2013 4:40 pm

Marlow wrote:
Brian wrote:But this (boldface) says more about us--and our as a culture ridiculous obsession with celebrity--than it does Beckham..

Any culture that would make Paris Hilton and the Kardashians household names is in deep decline!!

Amen!
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Brian » Fri May 31, 2013 7:47 pm

lonewolf wrote:
Marlow wrote:
Brian wrote:But this (boldface) says more about us--and our as a culture ridiculous obsession with celebrity--than it does Beckham..

Any culture that would make Paris Hilton and the Kardashians household names is in deep decline!!

Amen!


And to complete the circle to track & field (how many remember this?):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/liz-smith ... 25743.html

:]
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Flumpy » Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:46 pm

Marlow wrote:
Flumpy wrote:You should all remember that if it wasn't for Victoria 90% of you would never have heard of him.

As a celebrity model, no, but his footballing career has nothing to do with her. He'd still be on a par with Cristiano Ronaldo, who is pretty danged famous.


No. Without her he'd be Michael Owen or Alan Shearer. His fame as a footballer is intrinsically linked to his celebrity. I have no doubt he's was a great player but his legend is about so much more than that and that is 100% down to Victoria's PR skills.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Flumpy » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:05 pm

observer2 wrote:
Flumpy wrote:You should all remember that if it wasn't for Victoria 90% of you would never have heard of him.

However good a footballer he may have been, he's famous because Vicky saw the potential and used her Girl Power to make it happen.

He'd be nothing without his Spice Girl wife.


I guess you are talking about a small target group in USA. In Europe David Beckham is a great name and Victoria is his wife (who used to sing in a group called "Spice Girls" if mentioned)


That simply isn't true.

At the time of meeting she was one of the most famous women in the world. She still is. It may not be a world you understand but her picture on the cover of any magazine is guaranteed to generate a giant bump in sales and her fashion label is HUGE. She's done far more in her career to justify her level of fame than he has. To just dismiss her as some woman who used to be in pop group is absurd.

Even in the UK his fame could have been a completely transitory thing without her. It's not as if he has a great personality or was even much of a looker before Vicky took over. His footballing skills are one thing but we have many great footballers who don't even attain his level of fame. When they first met he was just one of any number of up and coming players. It's his association with Victoria that gave him the edge over the others and was the reason so many people outside of sports fans took notice of his football skills in the first place. He may have been on the sports pages before but she restyled him completely and put him on the front pages where he has stayed ever since.

How many billboards do you see Steve Gerrard or Frank Lampard on???
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:17 pm

Flumpy wrote:At the time of meeting she was one of the most famous women in the world. She still is.

Not here she wasn't/isn't. They made each other famous here.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Flumpy » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:29 pm

That is absolutely not true. She's sold 20 million records in the US before she'd even married him.

Yes the 'Posh and Becks' brand may have made them together but that was totally driven by her celebrity to begin with.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:49 pm

Flumpy wrote:That is absolutely not true. She's sold 20 million records in the US before she'd even married him.
Yes the 'Posh and Becks' brand may have made them together but that was totally driven by her celebrity to begin with.

She didn't sell 20M, the Spice Girls did, and she was just another one of them. I seriously knew nothing about her till Bex married her.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby marknhj » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:27 pm

Flump - you are 100% wrong. She's never been more than a very minor asterisk in the US. She's known as his wife who happens to be a former Spice Girl and I would say that the Spice Girl's recognition in present day America is mainly due to Becks.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby jazzcyclist » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:05 pm

Flumpy wrote:That is absolutely not true. She's sold 20 million records in the US before she'd even married him.

Yes the 'Posh and Becks' brand may have made them together but that was totally driven by her celebrity to begin with.

I had never heard of her before she married Beckham. Hell, I barely knew who the Spice Girls were. What you have to remember is that the U.K. only makes up 1% of the world's popluation, and so it's unwise to assume that because someone is famous in the U.K., they are famous worldwide. Similarly, just because Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton are well-known here, doesn't mean they are well-known outside of America despite the fact that the U.S. has five times the population of the U.K.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby lonewolf » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:22 pm

I think I may be representative of the huge "culturally uniformed" mass of Americans. I don't remember being aware of the Spice "Girls or Beckham until they were married, became a couple or whatever.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby mump boy » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:31 am

marknhj wrote:Flump - you are 100% wrong. She's never been more than a very minor asterisk in the US. She's known as his wife who happens to be a former Spice Girl and I would say that the Spice Girl's recognition in present day America is mainly due to Becks.


You're missing the point, there wouldn't be a brand 'Becks' without her. It was her celebrity, PR skills and vison that created them as a brand in the first place. There wouldn't have been anythign to sell in America or anywhere alse without her creating him

He is no better footballer than Michael Owen it was Victoria celebrity and re invention that took him onto the front pages and allowed him to be in a postion that anyone would want to recognise him worldwide

When they got engaged it wasn't because of him (or his looks) that put their photo on front page of every news paper in the UK (and many worldwide).

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/ffximag ... /pb1,0.jpg

Flumpy isn't saying that she is more famous than him now but she certainly was when they met and it is her that has created the David Beckham that we see today.

Middle aged men may not have been aware of her but since when did that demographic create stars ?? In 1998 she was once of the most famous people in the world and on the front pages every single day,it was the association with her that made him a celebrity and them as a brand that took it over the top.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:36 am

mump boy wrote:You're missing the point, there wouldn't be a brand 'Becks' without her.

Yes, but THIS was Flump's statement, which is incorrect:

Flumpy wrote:That is absolutely not true. She's sold 20 million records in the US before she'd even married him. Yes the 'Posh and Becks' brand may have made them together but that was totally driven by her celebrity to begin with.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Flumpy » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:13 am

Nothing about that statement is incorrect.

Although maybe it was only 15m records.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby EPelle » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:23 am

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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby KDFINE » Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:13 pm

Flumpy - Owen was was way better than Beckham.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Flumpy » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:20 pm

That was my point.

Where are his billboards and Vanity Fair covers???

But then he just married his childhood sweetheart.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Vielleicht » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:02 am

A popular pop-group is something quite different from a popular individual in that group. Many people knew about Spice Girls but fewer knew about Victoria.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby mump boy » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:59 am

Vielleicht wrote:A popular pop-group is something quite different from a popular individual in that group. Many people knew about Spice Girls but fewer knew about Victoria.


That is not true in the UK, they were all individually the most famous people in the country

It was her celebrity that created him and them (Posh and Becks) as a brand in the UK first and without this branding he would never have been known abroad.

No matter how skilled they are, how many other UK soccer players are household names in the US ?
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:08 am

mump boy wrote:That is not true in the UK, they were all individually the most famous people in the country It was her celebrity that created him and them (Posh and Becks) as a brand in the UK first and without this branding he would never have been known abroad.

And there's the crux of the matter. The UK and the USA are completely different regarding this couple. In the USA, he made her; in the UK she made him (who then made her in the USA).
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Daisy » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:17 am

I think Marlow is correct here. There is no doubt that posh was we'll known in the UK but I have never seen her on the radar screen here until they moved to LA. And then always as Beckham's wife.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby lonewolf » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:16 pm

Both sides are correct in their conviction.Has there been a sillier argument in the history of this board?
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby 26mi235 » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:33 pm

In the US he did not even make her, she is not a particular entity at all. I can recognize her with him but not on her own, and I would guess that is true for most that can recognize her with him. Now maybe she 'made' him there and then as a result he was big here and so she had an indirect role, but to indicate that she made him here in any direct way is about as far off as many characterizations of 'non-standard' lifestyles by the religiously conservative subset in the US.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby mump boy » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:28 pm

I agree this is possibly most stupid argument in the history of this board !!

There is no 'David Beckham' to to become famous in US without her creating the brand in the UK first.

Nobody is arguing that she is more famous than him in the US now but without her in the first place he wouldn't exist at all

He didn't arrive fully formed on american shores, he was a non descript, not very attractive, well known to sports fans but not to the wider public, shy footballer with a funny voice before getting engaged to her,

She turned this

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Gua ... .--008.jpg

into this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/pictur ... ml?image=3

within 1 year

And you wouldn't believe the front page headlines a footballer wearing a sarong created !! (as was intended)

They didn't move to LA till '07 he had been world famous for 10 years before then and it wasn't because of his football skills. By the time you'd heard of him, his fame had eclipsed hers, of course but that doesn't mean it wasn't her who created it in the first place. If he'd married someone not in the public eye he would not be in the position he is now. He is a willing construct of his wife and more importantly Simon Fuller and the seed of it all comes from his marriage.

Why any of you think you have the inside track on British celebrity culture is beyond me, i promise you Flump and i know more about it than all of you put together
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby gh » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:01 pm

mump boy wrote:I...
Why any of you think you have the inside track on British celebrity culture is beyond me, i promise you Flump and i know more about it than all of you put together


that may well be, but on the other side of the coin is your apparent lack of understanding of who is hip on this side of the pond.

(and if "celebrity culture" isn't a self-cancelling phrase, I don't know what is!)
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Daisy » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:03 pm

mump boy wrote:Nobody is arguing that she is more famous than him in the US now but without her in the first place he wouldn't exist at all

Not quite true, as you were citing all her record sales in the US. I agree she transformed him into to something that LA finds chic.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby bambam » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:23 pm

Maybe we should start a new thread about what was the stupidest argument ever on this board?
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:44 pm

bambam wrote:Maybe we should start a new thread about what was the stupidest argument ever on this board?

:D the only thing stupider than talking about stupid stuff is talking about talking about stupid stuff!!!!
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby mump boy » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:13 pm

gh wrote:
mump boy wrote:I...
Why any of you think you have the inside track on British celebrity culture is beyond me, i promise you Flump and i know more about it than all of you put together


that may well be, but on the other side of the coin is your apparent lack of understanding of who is hip on this side of the pond.

(and if "celebrity culture" isn't a self-cancelling phrase, I don't know what is!)


I totally understand who is hip either side of the pond, what you lot are refusing to understand is why

He was a run of the mill, not particularly famous footballer before he met her, it was her fame and pr instincts (alongside Simon Fuller, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Fuller who turned the Spice Girls into a worldwide phenomenon and also created American Idol) that made him into something that could be sold world wide including the US

You lot came late to the party and are now trying to tell me how it was organised !!
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby mump boy » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:15 pm

Daisy wrote: I agree she transformed him into to something that LA finds chic.


So you agree with Flump and me then, because that was the initial statement from Flump that so many have taken umbrage with.

This getting too stupid even for me now !! i'm out

But i'll leave you with this

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_hfm4Z4EtxFw/T ... 2000_1.jpg
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:57 pm

mump boy wrote:I totally understand who is hip either side of the pond

Because you've spent so much time here? We don't pretend to 'get' British pop culture, and if your understanding of us is reading TMZ or some such, you're not even close. If you spend at least 6 months a year here, then I retract my skepticism. Otherwise, no way.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby mump boy » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:53 am

I'm pretty sure you haven't known what was 'hip' (hip ??) anywhere since 1983 :P
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:47 am

mump boy wrote:I'm pretty sure you haven't known what was 'hip' (hip ??) anywhere since 1983 :P

Undoubtedly! But I sure do know America a whole lot better than a non-native! :D
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Flumpy » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:57 pm

I do find it hilarious how a bunch of middle aged (Mostly) male sports fans are absolutely insistent that a woman is of no importance in the situatio,n simply they don't happen to have heard of her.

To the demographic into which she introduced her husband she is about as famous as can be and has been for well over a decade. She brought her husband into that sphere, hence his worldwide fame, which only partially came through his sporting prowess.

Irrespective of who you happened to hear of first, without this particular popstar wife David Beckham would just be Jamie Rednapp.

http://marieclaire.media.ipcdigital.co. ... ver-LP.jpg

Poor Vicky B destined to be sidelined like so many great women before her. Written out of history by the patriachy, threatened by her major accomplishments.

She's the modern day Rosalind Franklin.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby lonewolf » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:57 pm

And then there's that equally important chicken and egg quandary. :)
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Marlow » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:35 pm

Flumpy wrote:Poor Vicky B destined to be sidelined like so many great women before her.

TAFNY!!! :lol:
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Daisy » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:12 pm

Flumpy wrote:She's the modern day Rosalind Franklin.

:roll:
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Brian » Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:54 pm

Kimmel had a good one last week (while the forum was locked.

During the monologue, Kimmel reported that soccer star David Beckham was retiring from the sport and was now going to devote all his time to trying to make his wife smile for the first time.

[Background picture of VB with her trademark serious tight-lipped look.]
.
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby mump boy » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:51 am

In some circles VB is The Woman of The Decade :P

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/ar ... wards.html
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Re: how good was David Beckham?

Postby Flumpy » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:10 am

Mump, look at the 4th pic down :lol:
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